Small shop/modular work surfaces (AKA how to cram 10# in a 5# sack...)

[gsdvorak]

Richard,
Thanks for sharing all your ideas for french cleats- fantastic!  You have convinced me to go with french cleats in my new shop- I find myself rearranging things a lot and this system seems to be much more flexible than others, including the t-track.  I probably won't get started on mine until the fall, but I promise to share pictures- I'm guessing many of your ideas will make it into my shop design and I'm sure I'll have some of my own.

Thanks again and y'all have a great 4th of July! 

Regards,
Gerald

 

[rizzoa13]

I'll be in brig on Sunday what's for lunch??

 

[Vondawg]

Richard first thanks for all the great documentation on your workshop and ideas, I've been following all of them. I (we) will soon do as you did and give up trees, leaves, mowing, and all that goes along with a few acres in the finger lakes area of NY. and move to the beach in NC. Have you had any problems with the moisture and tool rust? And how have you dealt with it? Going from nice dry winters and air conditioned summers (in a basement shop) I've not had to deal with that and worry a bit about our green tools and others as well.
Thanks, Von

 

[Vartz04]

I love this thread. Someone with more stuff than me in a smaller shop. I'm keeping my eye on your progress and likely moving to some French cleats at some point this winter

 

[rmwarren]

Hey Von,

Whereabouts in NC? Looking ahead to being taxed out of NJ we went down last year between Xmas & NY to scout around, made it from Pawley Island up to Surf City, lots of great beaches. Our problem is we are spoiled by having a complete town here on Brigantine, and everything we saw down there were mostly bedroom communities where you had to leave the island for most services. Did we miss anything, or are you heading further north?

Rust & corrosion are tough, have not found a solution but I am battling it to a draw. Mostly. Biggest problem is surface moisture from condensation when the temp changes. I don't have a lot of big steel tools anymore, on those I kept I've had some luck with Boeshield, [member=9170]Sal LiVecchi[/member] recommended it and he lives in an even tougher climate.

Seldom used hand tools and planes I wrap in rust inhibiter paper when not in use, bit of a PITA but it works.  It evens out, I don't miss the leaves.

Good luck.

RMW

Richard first thanks for all the great documentation on your workshop and ideas, I've been following all of them. I (we) will soon do as you did and give up trees, leaves, mowing, and all that goes along with a few acres in the finger lakes area of NY. and move to the beach in NC. Have you had any problems with the moisture and tool rust? And how have you dealt with it? Going from nice dry winters and air conditioned summers (in a basement shop) I've not had to deal with that and worry a bit about our green tools and others as well.
Thanks, Von

 

[Tinker]

I have used WD-40 and then wax treatment early in woodworking season.  then, the last couple of times I know my season is close to ending at end of winter or early spring, I don't turn on my aircleaner while working in the shop.  Fine dust seems to settle onto everything.  I leave that dust on my tools all summer until I start back in the fall.  I used to keep all my tools very clean and was fighting rust forever.  When one summer, I left everything covered with fine dust, I had almost ZERO rust to contend with in the fall.  i have been doing that way ever since.

I know it sounds like I'm lazy>>>>>>>> well I am!
Tinker

 

[Vondawg]

RMW
Topsail Island, NC and while its not a 'complete' town its got everything within 20 mins off the island for most but not the docks for fresh fish.... thanks for the paper tip, I've been stocking up on sm. dehumidifiers [LeeValley] and the top coats, wax, and corrosion-inhibiting storage bags.
Tinker, the dust tip is interesting and sounds very logical to me.

 

[Tinker]

I have an old cast iron folding router table that  has lost parts.  I set it in a corner way back around turn of century.  It is covered ith fine dust as I have never cleaned it. I had treated with the W40 and wax every season while i was using it. Every summer, after wiping it clean and putting it on a shelf, i would need to get rid of rust spots in the fall.  when it got broken, i just set it on the concrete floor in a corner and havenot dusted it off as long as it has been there.  every once in a while, i check for rust.  As I said, i have never wiped it clean.  There is nohing like a concrete floor to wick moiture  up from the ground underneath.  There is still no rust.  Probably it i tried that with an expensive toy, It would be totally covered with rust.  I do not wipe dust off of my LN planes, but keep them on a shelf.  No rust as long as they are covered with dust.  When i had my Table saw I used to keep it clean and constantly fighting rust spots.  When i finally allowed dust to stay thru the summer, no rust.  My bandsaw i now treat the same way.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

[member=41086]Vondawg[/member] - we were there, really liked it there better than the more southern NC and SC beach towns. Spent an hour with Dean Phillips, a really great Realtor @ Landmark and got schooled that it is NOT "Top-Sail" but rather "Topsel", slightly slurred.  [big grin]

We noted the water there was almost Caribbean blue, & then Dean pointed out how being north of Cape Fear River the waters were much clearer. Lots to do if you have a small boat.

Wilmington is a great little city and close enough for most everything you need right along 17. I'm spoiled with my Ace Hardware, TD Bank, Acme, liquor store and bakery open year round, I can go a week easy and never leave town. Even so I have to drive 20 minutes to get lumber or hit BJ's for ribs.

The newer homes all seemed to be on pilings and open to the outside, do you have one with a first floor shop area?

Good luck with the move.

RMW

RMW
Topsail Island, NC and while its not a 'complete' town its got everything within 20 mins off the island for most but not the docks for fresh fish.... thanks for the paper tip, I've been stocking up on sm. dehumidifiers [LeeValley] and the top coats, wax, and corrosion-inhibiting storage bags.
Tinker, the dust tip is interesting and sounds very logical to me.

 

[Tinker]

[member=41086]Vondawg[/member] - we were there, really liked it there better than the more southern NC and SC beach towns. Spent an hour with Dean Phillips, a really great Realtor @ Landmark and got schooled that it is NOT "Top-Sail" but rather "Topsel", slightly slurred.  [big grin]

We noted the water there was almost Caribbean blue, & then Dean pointed out how being north of Cape Fear River the waters were much clearer. Lots to do if you have a small boat.

Wilmington is a great little city and close enough for most everything you need right along 17. I'm spoiled with my Ace Hardware, TD Bank, Acme, liquor store and bakery open year round, I can go a week easy and never leave town. Even so I have to drive 20 minutes to get lumber or hit BJ's for ribs.

The newer homes all seemed to be on pilings and open to the outside, do you have one with a first floor shop area?

Good luck with the move.

RMW

RMW
Topsail Island, NC and while its not a 'complete' town its got everything within 20 mins off the island for most but not the docks for fresh fish.... thanks for the paper tip, I've been stocking up on sm. dehumidifiers [LeeValley] and the top coats, wax, and corrosion-inhibiting storage bags.
Tinker, the dust tip is interesting and sounds very logical to me.

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] I new houses are all on pilings, IMHO I would go with the flo.  That is big storm country.  Your little storms in Brigantine are just warm ups, I think. How high are those pilings?  I would think they are high enuf to keep the houses dry with average storm coming in off ocean.  A cellar under house for a work shop should probably be up on even higher piles.  Just a thought.

A few years ago, maybe 50+/-, i had occasion to build a foundation under a house in Randolf, Vt.  The house had been built on concrete piers.  The owner from Newtown, Ct., the BIL of my best friend here in Wilton, Ct wanted to put a cellar under the house.  I advised against it, as it was not going to be lived in year round.  My thought was that the "natives" know something that "aliens" from down in the flatlands of Southern Connecticut do not know.  That house was basically going to be used as a hunting cabin to be used a couple of weeks in the mid to late fall and possibly for summer vacations.  The heat would be left at very low thru the winter with nobody living there. By the time i spoke my thoughts, the house was already up on cribbing and off to the side of where the foundation was to be built.

I took my helper and cement mixer and we trekked on up to Randolf. I had advised 12" blocks.  The owner ordered 8".  The footings had already been poured and forms removed.  With forboding, i threw up a foundation with a couple of very long days of going full bore.  We actually finished up in a snow storm but we covered the whole thing with a tarp and next morning, the snow was already melting.  The riggers got there and moved the house onto the foundation the next day.  Along about spring of following yer, i spoke with my friend.  It seems he had found out those "ignorant hillbilly natives" must have known something causing them to all built their houses on concrete piers.  With no heat in the new cellar, the entire foundation had been pushed in by frost.

Richard, do take a close look and ASK around before you think about a cellar under a house within half mile (or however far you should be looking) of the ocean. Those houses are on pilings for good reason.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

[member=550]Tinker[/member] - Wayne we understood the reasoning behind the pilings. The current codes restrict new construction from having enclosed areas at ground level, due to storm surge. I assume this is due to being in the V (velocity) flood zone in addition to the 100 year zone. FEMA's knee-jerk reaction after Sandy was to put much of Brigantine into the V-zone, it was later removed after flood maps/base flood elevation were updated. V-zone has a huge impact on insurance rates.

There are however a number of older homes that have ground floors. My question was whether Von had one of the older homes with a ground floor shop, or if he had some other arrangement. I assume it is the former but was curious, I've been trying to sneak my shop into the house for years and thought perhaps he had the secret.  [big grin]  [not worthy]

RMW

PS - just fully re-read your "tale", and laughed/grimaced. Before we built the current house the Boss & did a greenie-building certification course, thinking we would show the peasants how to build a house properly. Learned 2 major things:

1.  Dreaming/designing/spec'ing green is a heck of a lot easier than building/paying for green; and
2.  Water, in it's various forms, creates 90% of the issues/challenges in construction.

We learned more than we ever wanted to know about vapor barriers, rain screens, proper moisture control, flashing leaks, mud, etc. ad nauseam, and ended up building a pretty conventional house. Don't get me started on geothermal HVAC or in-floor radiant heat, or heat recovery ventilators...

RMW

 

[jyarbrou]

A lot of the NC coast line flash floods with just a heavy rain. I've seen a foot+ of water in the roads on some of the islands after a good storm.

 

[Tinker]

[member=550]Tinker[/member] - Wayne we understood the reasoning behind the pilings. The current codes restrict new construction from having enclosed areas at ground level, due to storm surge. I assume this is due to being in the V (velocity) flood zone in addition to the 100 year zone. FEMA's knee-jerk reaction after Sandy was to put much of Brigantine into the V-zone, it was later removed after flood maps/base flood elevation were updated. V-zone has a huge impact on insurance rates.

There are however a number of older homes that have ground floors. My question was whether Von had one of the older homes with a ground floor shop, or if he had some other arrangement. I assume it is the former but was curious, I've been trying to sneak my shop into the house for years and thought perhaps he had the secret.  [big grin]  [not worthy]

RMW

PS - just fully re-read your "tale", and laughed/grimaced. Before we built the current house the Boss & did a greenie-building certification course, thinking we would show the peasants how to build a house properly. Learned 2 major things:

1.  Dreaming/designing/spec'ing green is a heck of a lot easier than building/paying for green; and
2.  Water, in it's various forms, creates 90% of the issues/challenges in construction.

We learned more than we ever wanted to know about vapor barriers, rain screens, proper moisture control, flashing leaks, mud, etc. ad nauseam, and ended up building a pretty conventional house. Don't get me started on geothermal HVAC or in-floor radiant heat, or heat recovery ventilators...

RMW

Richard, I was pretty sure you knew the why for the piers.  It is interesting about the difference you describe between new and old construction.

When I had my mason construction business, i sometimes got into argu- er,ah- debates with architects and designers about construction problems... mostly about fireplace design.  Once, I told the architect the design just would not work.  his reply was "i am more interested in the design than whether or not it will work."  The fire place did not work.  Luckily the builder was present while we were arguing and he backed me up when i called the archetct at 11:30 pm on a very rainy nite to come observe a very smokey room.  The guy would not come.  I later used the same basic design with my own change suggestions in the fireplace I built in my own house. My fire place worked.  as with the piles and peers, a little change in construction can often do wonders.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

Realized as I was updating this post, it has been over a month since I have been in the shop. Way to long. Yesterday was in the 40's, zero wind and sunny. And the boss and my FIL are safely stashed away in Florida for a month. Time to play.

Getting the heat more-or-less permanently installed and putting up new lights has been on the list for a while. I broke down and bought a pair of 2' by 4' 5,000K LED lights from Global Industrial to go with the radiant heat panel I got from them last winter.

[attachimg=1]

Decided to make some some 75mm frames to fit them into, depth was needed to make sure none of the j-boxes hit the framing. The boxes are just pocket-screwed to the rafter ties. Temp blocking holding the panels in until I can finish off the ceiling.

[attachimg=2]

The new MFT/SYS cart extension got it's first workout as a ripping/crosscut/assembly station:

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

And, nominated for the goof-ball of the day award, my helping hands holding the LED light up while wiring it in series...

[attachimg=6]

Left the heat on @ 50 overnight to see how it would be this AM, heading out now to enjoy again.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Major spring-cleaning over the weekend, this freakish February temps have been up to the 70’s with blue sky and light breezes. About time for the Daffodils to pop up so they can get clobbered by one last blizzard.

Going back to one of the original “guiding principles” for the shop rehab: If it is not used in the shop, it is not stored in the shop. I updated this to “used frequently” and cleared our stuff like finishes, steam bending equip and so on. The shop is basically down to benches, power and hand tools, clamps, fasteners and fixtures.

[attachimg=1]

I also pulled out seldom-used tools and plan to sell them off, stand by for a few posts in the classifieds.

Upright storage of long/thin stuff is pretty much under control, no more stuff leaning again the walls in a corner.

[attachimg=2]

I’m now trying to shrink down the (4) 24” cabinets by half. 2 contain fasteners and the other 2 are hand tools, drill bits, and misc. supplies. Some of the tools will get incorporated into shallow drawers on the MFT/SYS cart and I can weed out some seldom used fasteners. The real problem is leaving enough worktop for the 4 stationary tools. This has me considering a turntable in the corner.

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

I’m looking for any input anyone may have who has used a turntable like this, based on the mock up I think I can fit everything on a 36” turntable offset 2” from the walls. I’m planning to keep the underside open so I can roll the tablesaw underneath it.

[attachimg=5]

If I go with the (38”) turntable and reduce the cabinets to 48” I end up with open space around 28” which is the future home of the to-be-acquired AC/DC TIG welder. I lost my little MIG during Sandy and never replaced it, but I am hankering to add some metalwork back into shop capabilities.

The CT/compressor area still looks like a nest of snakes but that can be cleaned up a bit, it is actually pretty functional.

[attachimg=6]

I can actually get to and use the CNC now, and store panel up to 24" by 32" under it, then anything larger against the wall behind it. Should get those slabs done and cleared out this spring.

[attachimg=7]

On a separate topic, I am seriously considering importing a CS 70 to replace the DeWalt saw. I was looking at the ERIKA 75 but given the cost difference I think I can get by with the CS. What I really want is the pull-saw functionality, it will sit on a cart so portability is not important to me. Anyone happy/unhappy with the CS 70?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rvieceli]

Richard looks good. On the turntable deal don't forget to leave enough room for your workpiece. I finally had to move my press into the middle of the wall from closer to the end to make room for some longer pieces.

Ron

 

[Luv2skyski]

Great thread Richard. I'm in the process of organizing my "shop" also.

Could you tell us a little more about your storage boxes / drawers?
I see that the Schaller boxes come in 3 depths. Which depth did you end up using?

You spent $500-$600 on 3 buys. I assume you bought 3-4 of their assortments? 
Is there any you would change or not buy as far as sizes? 
Did you build the drawers to fit the boxes or was that just luck?

Sincerely, Dave.

 

[mikeyr]

• If it is not used in the shop, it is not stored in the shop. This includes excess material, more on this in a later post.

that is a rule to live by.

Besides, the pizza oven comes first... [big grin]

oh yeah...as the proud owner of 2 wood burning pizza ovens, I can really agree with you on this one.  2 because one is smaller for day to day pizza's and one big brick oven.

 

[rmwarren]

Hi Dave - see below for responses. Representative bin sizes labeled:

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

Fully loaded fastener drawers weight a ton, would not use < 1/2" for bottoms, mine are all 3/4", & 100# slides.

RMW

Great thread Richard. I'm in the process of organizing my "shop" also.

Could you tell us a little more about your storage boxes / drawers?
I see that the Schaller boxes come in 3 depths. Which depth did you end up using? I have some of all 3 sizes, most useful for drill bits are the 1", for most fasteners are the 2". A lot depends on drawer depth, my shallow drawers are made with 75mm rips and a full 3/4" flush bottom, so ~2.25" inside height. Handtools like drivers, wrenches, etc also fit the 2" best.

You spent $500-$600 on 3 buys. I assume you bought 3-4 of their assortments?  Nope, I guessed at sizes in the beginning then filled in with later orders when I ran out of a particular size or figured out a new size would maximize space usage.
Is there any you would change or not buy as far as sizes? Hmmnn.. 2" and 3" widths are probably most versatile for fasteners, a very few of the 1" width for really small stuff, and 4" & 6" widths for some larger tools. 2"/3" by 6"/8" are handy for tools also. 
Did you build the drawers to fit the boxes or was that just luck? Dumb luck. Cabinets are 24" OAL, 3/4 material, 1/2" slides and 3/4" drawer sides so ended up ~20" ID width.

Sincerely, Dave.

 

[Luv2skyski]

Thanks, Richard. The labeled pictures with box dimensions are really helpful. I appreciate your opinions on the different sizes too.
Sincerely, Dave.