So I have $5000 to outfit the studio with Festools

[peter halle]

Thanks for the information.  I am ignorant on steel harness / performance.  I however did not like spending the dollars for this machine and then having to flip the knives after running 300 feet of fir thru it.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I buy jointer and planer knives from these guys.  Good products, fair prices, good service.

Don't have a DW735, but original manufacturer knives are sometimes an incredible ripoff. 

You should be able to have them resharpened a few times, too.

 

[fshanno]

Gentlemen

I would do a little more research about carbide knives, while they have increased durability it comes at the cost of cut quality. One reason the Dewalt knives gave such a nice finish was the soft steel (HSS) they were made of could be super sharpened but again at the cost of durability. Thats one reason why you don't see carbide blades for hand planes.

John

John

That's what Steel City says about the HSS inserts in it's helical head.  It's the only one I've seen with HSS inserts.

 

[mouppe]

It's also to do with HCS breaking down under high heat- see this note from the Lee Valley website about HCS v HSS. It was written for drill bits but the same principles apply.

"High-carbon steel (HCS) has very good wear resistance and hardenability. A HCS drill bit will have reasonable longevity between sharpenings, but is unable to hold an edge at elevated temperatures. Beyond 400°F (205°C), high-carbon steel begins to lose its hardness. Unfortunately, the tips of cutting edges are often subjected to such temperatures; once their hardness is lost, the edge breaks down. HCS is suitable for use in softwoods. Its lower cost makes it an ideal choice for the hobbyist or occasional user (when the odd drill size is needed).

High-speed steel (HSS) bits have superior toughness and red hardness, which a power tool bit needs. Since heat build-up will not reduce the hardness of high-speed steel, it is recommended for continuous use in hardwoods. HSS bits enter cleanly, provide smooth sidewalls and stay sharp 10 times as long as HCS bits. They are a good investment for the serious woodworker."

 

[Ken Nagrod]

How are you comparing this to carbide knives for the planer?  Especially if they're tungsten carbide, they'll outlast many HSS blades and can handle bits of metal in the wood with little to no damage compared to the HSS hitting the same material.

 

[nickao]

In my experience the HSS outperform carbide initially. Then rather quickly they are about the same as carbide. AT this point carbide outlast the HSS by about 4 times or more. If you nick something it is about the same as carbide is brittle and seem to nick fairly easily. Just keep your lumber clean.

I can only tell a difference in quality when the HSS is brand new and I mean brand new(maybe 50 bd feet) after that they perform the same. Also, the HSS are not that much better to warrant skipping carbide for most things.

I do keep HSS for those certain things when I want that perfect cut, like on my mill. I have mostly carbide end mills, but for critical operations I pull out those HSS. The HSS can be resharpened fairly easily compared to carbide too.

HCS? I know nothing, unless I had HCS and they were marketed as HSS, which may be possible.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Another off topic comment, but I've noticed over the past let's say 10 years that while planing really old doors with my Porter Cable 9118 (126) the spiral carbide cutter has hit some burried old cut nails and it remains sharp and intact.  Only recently did I have it sent out for a touch up sharpening.  I also purchased a new one as a backup for $90 and noticed it now says made in China.  Bought it at the B&D/DeWalt/PC corporate repair center so it's legit.  Not sure if it'll perform as well as the old American made one.

As a side note, I always pull nails I see before planing, but sometimes it happens that you hit em and when it happens to me, I think, oh great, I damaged an expensive cutter, but so far it's just sheared off the nail without any noticable damage and still cuts cleanly.  I'm no metallurgist, but there must be something to going with carbide over HSS.  Porter Cable used to use a HSS cutter on this planer, at some point changing production to carbide.

 

[nickao]

Mostly none of this is off topic Ken.

Outfitting the shop with initial 5000.00 of tools requires all this stuff be talked about to determine why and where he will spend the money. Your experience with the bits helps him spend his 5000.00 in an informed way. I always find your comments helpful.

 

[Brice Burrell]

In my experience the HSS outperform carbide initially. Then rather quickly they are about the same as carbide. AT this point carbide outlast the HSS by about 4 times or more....

Great counter point Nick.

 

[ZenMystic]

Festools have been bought/ordered. Thanks for all the input on those.

Here's what I got:

Domino Joiner DF 500 Q Set
Cutter & Domino Tenon Assortment Systainer

TS 55 EQ Plunge-Cut Saw + MFT/3 Table
Panther 14-Tooth Saw Blade, TS 55 (160 mm)
55" Guide Rail, FS 1400
Splinterguard, 5-Pack
Guide Rail Accessory Kit
Quick Clamp -  - 2
Clamping Elements for MFT

RO 150 MultiJetstream Dual Mode Sander + CT 26
ETS 150/3 EQ Random Orbital Sander
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P80 Grit
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P150 Grit
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P180 Grit

OF 1400 EQ Router
Guide Stop, OF 1400

Workshop Cleaning Set
---------

Kapex will have to wait until the next round. Need some other stuff before I can break the bank again.

Next is a planer and more clamps....

I'm finding all the info/discussion on planers and blades extremely helpful.

Another log to throw on the fire....what kind of clamps  do you guys recommend/use?  I have some small Quick Grips I use now and want to add some longer ones.

I looked at the Bessey REVO Parallel Clamps. They seem really nice. I especially liked the sliding jaw models. Anybody used them?

 

[nickao]

Have fun!

 

[tbellemare]

I see you ordered a Panther blade. I would not accept it if it isn't 496305. The earlier models have a wider kerf than the Fine Tooth Blade that comes with the TS 55 and will cut deeper into your splinter guard(s).

The same is true of the other blades for the TS 55. The latest generation are all the same kerf. If you get a blade, whose number doesn't begin with 496, it isn't a good idea to use it unless you dedicate a guide rail to that kerf.

Tom

 

[GPowers]

Festools have been bought/ordered. Thanks for all the input on those.

Here's what I got:

Domino Joiner DF 500 Q Set
Cutter & Domino Tenon Assortment Systainer

TS 55 EQ Plunge-Cut Saw + MFT/3 Table
Panther 14-Tooth Saw Blade, TS 55 (160 mm)
55" Guide Rail, FS 1400
Splinterguard, 5-Pack
Guide Rail Accessory Kit
Quick Clamp -  - 2
Clamping Elements for MFT

RO 150 MultiJetstream Dual Mode Sander + CT 26
ETS 150/3 EQ Random Orbital Sander
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P80 Grit
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P150 Grit
Rubin Abrasives - 6" Diameter P180 Grit

OF 1400 EQ Router
Guide Stop, OF 1400

Workshop Cleaning Set
---------

You got a real nice start. Have fun [big grin]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I see you ordered a Panther blade. I would not accept it if it isn't 496305. The earlier models have a wider kerf than the Fine Tooth Blade that comes with the TS 55 and will cut deeper into your splinter guard(s).

The same is true of the other blades for the TS 55. The latest generation are all the same kerf. If you get a blade, whose number doesn't begin with 496, it isn't a good idea to use it unless you dedicate a guide rail to that kerf.

Tom

Tom, I have a 48 tooth blade that says 2.2mm on the package with a part# 495377.

 

[tbellemare]

'Sorry for the confusion...

That's the Fine Tooth Blade, the one that comes with the saw. That's the blade whose kerf you're trying to match. All the blades now have matching kerfs of 2.2mm. It used to be that the Fine Tooth Blade (48t) was the only one with a 2.2mm kerf.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

I see you ordered a Panther blade. I would not accept it if it isn't 496305. The earlier models have a wider kerf than the Fine Tooth Blade that comes with the TS 55 and will cut deeper into your splinter guard(s).

The same is true of the other blades for the TS 55. The latest generation are all the same kerf. If you get a blade, whose number doesn't begin with 496, it isn't a good idea to use it unless you dedicate a guide rail to that kerf.

Tom

Tom,

There is no "updated" Panther blade. It still is item 495372.
http://www.festoolusa.com/search.html?q=495372

The 496305 is Festool's "Standard"  12 tooth blade which has been updated from item 495374.
http://www.festoolusa.com/search.html?q=496305
Bob

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Bob,

Is there an updated blade to the 495376  28 tooth TS55 blade?

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob,

Is there an updated blade to the 495376   28 tooth TS55 blade?

Ken,

Yes, the UNIVERSAL BLADE - 495376 is now the 496304.

Bob

 

[tbellemare]

With all due respect, I beg to differ, Bob.

495372, also PW 14, was a 2.5mm kerf, 14-tooth, ATB Blade that was called, "Panther"
496305, also PW 12, is a 2.2mm kerf, 12-tooth, ATB Blade that is called, "Panther"

The old blade called "Standard", which was 495374, is no longer available except as leftovers in the system. It has a 2.5mm kerf.

The new Panther Blade, 496305, has a shoulder behind the tooth. My understanding is that this shoulder helps prevent bogging down and kickbacks.

[attachthumb=#1]

The former Panther, 495372, was less sophisticated.

[attachthumb=#2]

I could be wrong but I don't think so...

Tom

EDIT: Please pick on the images to enlarge and then use the scroll bar at the bottom to see the package label. I didn't want to compromise the clarity of the image by shrinking it.

 

[Bob Marino]

With all due respect, I beg to differ, Bob.

495372, also PW 14, was a 2.5mm kerf, 14-tooth, ATB Blade that was called, "Panther"
496305, also PW 12, is a 2.2mm kerf, 12-tooth, ATB Blade that is called, "Panther"

The old blade called "Standard", which was 495374, is no longer available except as leftovers in the system. It has a 2.5mm kerf.

The new Panther Blade, 496305, has a shoulder behind the tooth. My understanding is that this shoulder helps prevent bogging down and kickbacks.

[attachthumb=#1]

The former Panther, 495372, was less sophisticated.

[attachthumb=#2]

I could be wrong but I don't think so...

Tom

EDIT: Please pick on the images to enlarge and then use the scroll bar at the bottom to see the package label. I didn't want to compromise the clarity of the image by shrinking it.

Tom,

Good catch! I am pretty positive that the 496305 is really a "redesigned"  Standard saw blade, since it is 12 tooth and not a "redesigned" "Panther" 14 tooth blade, with the name changed to PANTHER. For those wanting the (original) 14 tooth Panther, the number 495372 remains the same - as supplies last.
The important thing, as you mentioned, is the newer blades have been redesigned to a uniform 2.2 mm kerf.

Bob