Solution (fence & stop) for cutting small pieces (less than 11") with the Kapex.

[festoller]

It's great to have the new Kapex Aluminum wing, but due to the design, cuts smaller than 280 mm (that's where the extension starts / without crown molding attachment) is still not possible.

I have an additional 8 mm MDF fence installed which will still let me use the Kapex clamp and of course I usually take clamps and other stuff to get some kind of stop, but having a simple but accurate and repetitive solution for the smaller than 28 mm (11") cuts and at the same time enable me to still use the Kapex clamp would really make the process easier.

I've seen several jigs and enhancements for the Kapex, but none was dealing with the smaller cuts, especially with keeping the Kapex clamp function, which I really like. An idea or even photo of your set up would be greatly appreciated.

 

[richard.selwyn]

I don't think this really solves your problem and I expect you have already thought of it,  but I have 450mm wide piece of thick MDF which I put between the stop and the piece to be cut.  I then just set the stop at the required length plus 450.  I can still clamp anything that is long enough to go as far as the clamp;

I have the old extension wings which are a bit flimsy.

Richard

 

[festoller]

Richard:

thanks for the hint! The new extension is much better and fixed properly on the Kapex V-Kerf. Unfortunately my workshop is rather small and therefore it's not possible to have the 1500 mm extension on the Kapex all the time. I've now ordered different Incra tracks (TTRACK+ and TRACKSYS) and the Incra Shop Stop and will probably build a smaller extension. I'll post photos if I get the parts and find the time, probably next week.

 

[kattermaggie]

I have addressed the problem of cutting small pieces.  You may have read a post that I put up some time ago, about not be able to cut small base returns with the Auxiliary Fences that come with the Kapex Miter Saw.

My solution was to have a portion of the back of the Auxiliary Fences machined down to a thickness of about .125.  This would be removing of the material that makes up the ribs on the back of the Auxiliary Fences.  After that was completed, I cut a supplemental insert out of 1/2" Paraply.  The portion that was going to go behind the Auxiliary Fence was than plunge routed .125 and screw to the movable fence.  By doing this the face of the Auxiliary Fences, are flush with the front of the Paraply.  Than I adjusted the Auxiliary Fences with the paraply attached over to the blade.  I cut the left piece of paraply with the Kapex miter lock lever at 45 degrees to the right, and the opposite to the Auxiliary Fence on the right.  After these two cuts are made, you are in business.  Turn on the laser, and move the Auxiliary Fence right up as close as you want to the Blade, lock it in place, and make your cut.  When making a cut on a small piece, make sure that the side of the Auxiliary Fence (L or R) that will have the small piece being cut is up close to the blade.  After you make your cut, the small piece will be sitting on the table insert, rather than flying around the room.

If anybody is interested, I will try to post some pics.  If you have figured out what I tried to describe above, and would like to have the machining done.  Send me an e-mail and we will make the arrangements.

Poppawoody

 

[festoller]

If anybody is interested, I will try to post some pics.  If you have figured out what I tried to describe above, and would like to have the machining done.  Send me an e-mail and we will make the arrangements.

Poppawoody

Poppawoody: Sounds very interesting I would love to see some pictures!

 

[Dan Clark]

...
If anybody is interested, I will try to post some pics.  If you have figured out what I tried to describe above, and would like to have the machining done.  Send me an e-mail and we will make the arrangements.

Poppawoody

Poppawoody,

This sounds interesting, but I haven't a clue what your solution looks like or how it works.  Please post pics.

Thanks,

Dan. 

 

[kattermaggie]

These are the pic's and a brief description of my post dated 20May2010
[attachthumb=#]
In this picture you see the backs of the two Auxiliary Fences with the reinforcing ribs removed. This was done to be able to attach 1/2" Paraply to the back of these Fences.  
[attachthumb=#][
This shows a little closer look at what I described above
[attachthumb=#]
This pic shows the Paraply cut, routed and screwed into place. If you look close you can see where some of the material from the paraply was removed with a router.  I set my router at a depth of .125 and removed material from the area where the paraply will be attached to the back of the Auxiliary Fences.  I determined the depth of the router by using a micrometer to measure the thickness of the aluminum once the ribs were removed.  I drilled two holes in each aluminum fence and counter sunk the holes to accept a 6 X 5/8" Screw (the type of screw commonly used to attach Euro Hinges) to attach the Paraply to the fences. In removing that material, when you make the attachment, the area not routed is flush with the front of the aluminum fences.
[attachthumb=#]
This pic was taken from the back, if you notice how the 45 degree angles were cut, you will see that for 90 degree cuts you can bring the two fences as close to the blade as you like. It will save you a little time at this point to turn on the Lazar. You can bring the fences right up to the blade. When you make a short cut off of material in the future, you won't have to look all over your shop for the million dollar piece.  

You should be able to see how this will also be a benefit when you make angled cuts. Once again after determining your angle, bring the fences up close to the blade, make your cut, and it will be waiting for you on the table insert. Here again, you won't be going on a scouting mission looking for the million dollar cut.

Poppawoody,

 

[Brice Burrell]

Poppawoody, thanks for posting this. I really like the concept but I don't like the idea of cutting the auxiliary fences. I suppose it doesn't hurt them any. 

 

[danrush]

Poppawoody,

I'm not sure I understand the extra effort required to apply the ply to the back of the fence.  Would it not be easier (and not require major alterations to the fence) to apply an additional plate to the cutting-side surface of the fence? 

I've installed 1/4" Baltic birch with a couple of small bolts and nuts on the face of the fence, then trimmed as you described.  Seems to work great.

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Dan

 

[mastercabman]

Poppawoody,

I'm not sure I understand the extra effort required to apply the ply to the back of the fence.  Would it not be easier (and not require major alterations to the fence) to apply an additional plate to the cutting-side surface of the fence? 

I've installed 1/4" Baltic birch with a couple of small bolts and nuts on the face of the fence, then trimmed as you described.  Seems to work great.

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Dan

I'm also interested to know.

 

[peter halle]

Dan,

Have you installed on the face of the fence or the back of the fence?

Peter

 

[mastercabman]

Dan,

Have you installed on the face of the fence or the back of the fence?

Peter

Peter,I beleive he installed on the face(front)of the fence.Witch is what i would do.I don't really get the idea of putting it behind the fence.

 

[wnagle]

I'm guessing he wants to keep the face of the kapex fence in line with the face of his auxiliary fences.  This may also be necessary for the stop systems used on the auxiliary fences.  Also when adding to auxiliary fences to the face it reduces the available crosscut by the thickness of the auxiliary fence.  Just my guess here.

 

[danrush]

Peter:  I installed the Baltic to the front, or" cutting " side of the fence.

Wayne:  I hear you.  It's not clear from Poppywood's pics what his auxiliary fence set up is.  Perhaps there's a reason for backsetting the ZC fence.  On my setup, since I'm using 6mm, or 1/4" ply, I'm only losing 1/4" on my crosscut.  An acceptable loss for my operation.    I had not thought of his stop systems, although there should be a good work around available.  Good thoughts, Wayne.

Dan

 

[Corwin]

Poppawoody,

I'm not sure I understand the extra effort required to apply the ply to the back of the fence.  Would it not be easier (and not require major alterations to the fence) to apply an additional plate to the cutting-side surface of the fence? 

I've installed 1/4" Baltic birch with a couple of small bolts and nuts on the face of the fence, then trimmed as you described.  Seems to work great.

Please let me know what I'm missing.

Dan

Dan, Thanks for posting this question.  This is what I was thinking and wanted to ask too.

 

[jvsteenb]

I guess he didn't want to "open up" the throat of the additional fence doing mitered cuts. To be as effective as possible, the front of the fence should be as close to the centre of rotation of the mitre-table as possible.
Ideally, one could have a single opening to just clear the saw, and it wouldn't widen at the front when doing miters. True zero-clearance - in a fence.
You can't accoplish that by attaching a "faux" fence in front of the fence, unless there's a way to set the fence back far enough to accomodate for the thickness of the added material.
So it does make sense to add material from the backside of the fence, and make it flush with the front. Then again, I guess I would have tried to find a way to do it without modifying the original fences.
OTOH, they're just parts, and can be ordered seperately if needed - so no real harm done.

Regards,

Job

 

[kattermaggie]

Thanks to all for your responces to my post.

Job, I think you have the idea.  Wayne, it sounds like an educated guess, and right on.  I will go from top to bottom to answer questions and explain some of the reasoning that went into my concept.

Dan,
With regards to the extra effort.  I am retired, so time is not an issue.  I also have the expertice of a friend who is also retired and is a Machinist by trade.  So I requested his effort on the machining end of this project.  I guess if you have access to outside expertise and time, why not take advantage of it.  

Peter, Dan, and Corwin,
Your question about front or back.  I think if you look again at the last picture, which was taken from the back of the Kapex, you will see that it is mounted to the back side of the Auxiliary Fences.  If you enlarge the 2nd. photo from the bottom.  You will see where the material was removed from the Paraply with the router and than attached to the back of the fences, with the two small screws that you see countersunk into the face of the Auxiliary Fences.

My reasoning for attaching the Paraply to the back of the Fences, was to keep everything flush with the front of the Auxiliary Fences.  I didn't want to compromise any of the features that Festool built into the Kapex.  I don't know that it would be an issue, but I also didn't want to interfere with the Clamping System on either side.

I also have a seven foot Saw Helper attached to the left of the Kapex and a five footer to the right.  I felt that if I mounted any material to the front of the fences, I would not be able to move the fences easily to the left or right depending on the cut.  That was the motivation for doing this in the 1st. place, so that I could be able to move the fences easily up to the saw blade from either side, as I explained in the post.  I was tired of cutting small pieces over, and over, because they were flying around the room, this had to do with the original design of the Auxiliary fences.

I hope this covers everybodies questions to this point.

Poppawoody,

 

[JimsWorkshop]

Here is what I came up with to help me cut small box parts that have to be exactly the same.

 

[JimsWorkshop]

Ok sorry, but I had some trouble inserting my pictures.  Here we go again.

The picture in my previous post was the east wall of my shop and shows where my Kapex is located.  As you can see, there isn't any room on the sides for long extension pieces or supports.  The table for the Performax drum sander is exactly the correct height to handle any long lumber that I have to mill to smaller work pieces. 

The next picture shows a close up of the setup I use to cut small pieces.

[attachimg=#]

This next shows how I can flip the stop up out of the way to insert a longer piece.  Notice the extension track that attaches to the fence to allow a stop to be adjusted out from the aux table.

[attachimg=#]

 

[Frank-Jan]

Nice setup Jim, beautifully made jig, thanks for sharing.

btw I totally missed this thread when it was posted last year, I never saw the picture of the auxiliary fence in between the slidingfences.