Starrett combo square clarification please.
- Thread starter RJNeal
- Start date
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,511
Rick, Starrett 12” combination squares can be broken down into either being cast or forged. After that you choose what head style you want. I have the protractor head but don’t use it much, as in almost never.
I also have both cast & forged heads and think the cast head is a little more resilient if dropped on the floor. I’ve cracked a forged head when it hit the floor.
Remember you can swap out the 12” blade for an 18” or a 24” blade at a moments notice, it takes 10 seconds or less.
You can also choose the blade markings. Metric, fractional or 100ths of an inch.
I also have both cast & forged heads and think the cast head is a little more resilient if dropped on the floor. I’ve cracked a forged head when it hit the floor.
Remember you can swap out the 12” blade for an 18” or a 24” blade at a moments notice, it takes 10 seconds or less.
You can also choose the blade markings. Metric, fractional or 100ths of an inch.
FestitaMakool
Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
- Messages
- 1,491
I’m looking at just the same ones you do, me too wandered about forged or cast.
For me it’s metric, but there are fewer options. I liked Veritas’ new pocket square too, but it’s only in imperial - wich had me look into the tiny Bridge City square with magnetic foot. That in particular could be interesting if one might set the foot at a narrow edge.
If anyone knows of alternatives I’d be happy too. But the combination square and double seems pretty obvious.
For me it’s metric, but there are fewer options. I liked Veritas’ new pocket square too, but it’s only in imperial - wich had me look into the tiny Bridge City square with magnetic foot. That in particular could be interesting if one might set the foot at a narrow edge.
If anyone knows of alternatives I’d be happy too. But the combination square and double seems pretty obvious.
R
Rob Z
Guest
Rick, I have numerous Starretts and echo what Cheese said. One thing to add is the finish of the blade. I elected for what I think Starrett terms a satin finish.
Also, I made a mistake once when ordering and ended up with the machinists blade. It's ok, but I never use it that way because I'm not working in decimal measurements. I mention this just as an FYI so you make sure you get what you want when you order.
Also, I made a mistake once when ordering and ended up with the machinists blade. It's ok, but I never use it that way because I'm not working in decimal measurements. I mention this just as an FYI so you make sure you get what you want when you order.
Rob Z said:
Ditto -- the satin chrome is the way to go... costs a bit more, but is infinitely more readible.
Go to the Starrett site to educucate yourself on the rule markings... I prefer the 16R style; fractions and decimal inches but other options are available.
I prefer the smooth finished heads to the black wrinkle finish; easier to keep clean.
So for me... the C33h-12-16R is my preference.
That said, and I love my Starrett stuff... today the Products Engineering (PEC) brand is probably the value choice. Outstanding quality, for much lower price than Starrett. I'm not sure where they are made, which may be important to you.
Enjoy the search! You'll love using it.
R
Rob Z
Guest
Hey Tom
I should have asked you to help me when I ordered years ago and I wouldn't have gotten the model number wrong. [big grin]
I do like the crinkle finish on mine and now that I think about it, maybe because the texture makes it just a little bit easier to grip. Either way , Rick will be happy with the quality of Starrett combo squares.
You're right about PEC brand. A buddy has several PEC squares and they were really well made and a fraction of the cost of Starrett.
I should have asked you to help me when I ordered years ago and I wouldn't have gotten the model number wrong. [big grin]
I do like the crinkle finish on mine and now that I think about it, maybe because the texture makes it just a little bit easier to grip. Either way , Rick will be happy with the quality of Starrett combo squares.
You're right about PEC brand. A buddy has several PEC squares and they were really well made and a fraction of the cost of Starrett.
RJNeal
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 659
Thanks everyone for your help and replies.
And thanks Tom for the suggestion.
It seems like all the narrative seem like they sound the same and it’s hard to compare online.
I fell in love with Starrett long time ago. I have my grandfather’s machinist tool box.
I have misplaced a few of the squares while I was doing the construction thing. Now that I’m having a dedicated shop, I need to replace them.
Rick.
And thanks Tom for the suggestion.
It seems like all the narrative seem like they sound the same and it’s hard to compare online.
I fell in love with Starrett long time ago. I have my grandfather’s machinist tool box.
I have misplaced a few of the squares while I was doing the construction thing. Now that I’m having a dedicated shop, I need to replace them.
Rick.
Rob Z said:
Don't get me wrong -- the crinkle finish is very cool. I just find it a bit harder to keep clean.
Machinist squares are definitely a "cry once" situation. I bought mine 25 years ago; it was expensive but I've enjoyed every time I've used it.
Pay your money and take your choice!
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,511
Well here's an interesting comparison.
The top blade is the Starrett chrome satin finish. The middle blade is a Starrett stainless item that's no longer available. It lives on the cast Starrett head that does duty mostly for outside jobs. The bottom blade is their standard blade and it's probably at least 30 years old. It rusts, it corrodes, it's difficult to read, you need to clean it with Scotch Brite from time to time. Obviously the easiest blade to read is the satin chrome version. The satin chrome blade is actually easier to read than the stainless version.
[attachimg=1]
Here's a comparison between the forged and the cast heads. I personally like the forged heads better because they're easier to clean, however I also noted they do seem a bit more susceptible to damage despite the fact that they are forged...go figure. They are also about 15%-20% more expensive than the cast versions.
[attachimg=2]
If you're looking for a standard to gauge the rest of your precision tooling against, and seriously, every woodworker needs that, then Starrett is the solution. I was fortunate enough to become friends with our in-house QA group and I brought all of my Starrett squares in and had them gauged against the Starrett granite standards. As far as square goes, they were all within .0001-.0003 of the granite standards. My squares are daily working tools that are still capable of maintaining this accuracy 20-30 years after they were produced.
I may note, I'm a big fan of Woodpeckers squares and for the price, they provide a lot of bang for your buck. However I noticed several of mine were out of whack when I compared them to the Starretts. I contacted Woodpeckers, they asked me how I determined their squares were wonky, I responded and consequently they sent me 2 new squares.
Spend a little less...get a lot less.
The top blade is the Starrett chrome satin finish. The middle blade is a Starrett stainless item that's no longer available. It lives on the cast Starrett head that does duty mostly for outside jobs. The bottom blade is their standard blade and it's probably at least 30 years old. It rusts, it corrodes, it's difficult to read, you need to clean it with Scotch Brite from time to time. Obviously the easiest blade to read is the satin chrome version. The satin chrome blade is actually easier to read than the stainless version.
[attachimg=1]
Here's a comparison between the forged and the cast heads. I personally like the forged heads better because they're easier to clean, however I also noted they do seem a bit more susceptible to damage despite the fact that they are forged...go figure. They are also about 15%-20% more expensive than the cast versions.
[attachimg=2]
If you're looking for a standard to gauge the rest of your precision tooling against, and seriously, every woodworker needs that, then Starrett is the solution. I was fortunate enough to become friends with our in-house QA group and I brought all of my Starrett squares in and had them gauged against the Starrett granite standards. As far as square goes, they were all within .0001-.0003 of the granite standards. My squares are daily working tools that are still capable of maintaining this accuracy 20-30 years after they were produced.
I may note, I'm a big fan of Woodpeckers squares and for the price, they provide a lot of bang for your buck. However I noticed several of mine were out of whack when I compared them to the Starretts. I contacted Woodpeckers, they asked me how I determined their squares were wonky, I responded and consequently they sent me 2 new squares.
Spend a little less...get a lot less.
Attachments
[member=3515]RJNeal[/member] Rick if you are mostly doing woodworking, you'll probably find the 4R markings most helpful. It has 1/8 and 1/16 on one side of the blade and 1/32 and 1/64 on the other. I find myself reaching for the 13A 4 inch double square the most.
If you are not in a hurry you can sometimes find deals around. Regular prices on most Starrett stuff is within a narrow range. But sometimes Amazon's pricing algorithm will come up with a lower price. You can always set up a price alert. In addition, if you sign up for ZORO email, they routinely run coupon discounts and Starrett is NOT excluded. 15% off is the norm and often 20% with a rare 25% thrown in. ZORO is an industrial supply house.
www.zoro.com
Ron
If you are not in a hurry you can sometimes find deals around. Regular prices on most Starrett stuff is within a narrow range. But sometimes Amazon's pricing algorithm will come up with a lower price. You can always set up a price alert. In addition, if you sign up for ZORO email, they routinely run coupon discounts and Starrett is NOT excluded. 15% off is the norm and often 20% with a rare 25% thrown in. ZORO is an industrial supply house.
www.zoro.com
Ron
Another vote for Starrett. And yes to the chrome satin finished ruler, unless you manage to obtain a stainless steel ruler.
And while I use the H8 head the most... the other two also see light of day on a regular basis, hence I would suggest to spend a bit more and get a 43x (434 or 435, depending on going cast or forged) set. Plus (depending on depth of pockets) additional ruler(s) of different length.
And while I use the H8 head the most... the other two also see light of day on a regular basis, hence I would suggest to spend a bit more and get a 43x (434 or 435, depending on going cast or forged) set. Plus (depending on depth of pockets) additional ruler(s) of different length.
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,511
Here's a quick look at the 4 different graduations available, from 12" long to 48" long.
4R...1/8" & 1/16" on one side and 1/32" & 1/64" on the other.
[attachimg=1]
16R...1/32" & 1/64" on one side and 1/50" & 1/100" on the other.
[attachimg=2]
36...1/2 mm & 1/32" on one side and 1 mm & 1/64" on the other.
[attachimg=3]
35...1/2 mm & 1 mm on both sides.
[attachimg=4]
4R...1/8" & 1/16" on one side and 1/32" & 1/64" on the other.
[attachimg=1]
16R...1/32" & 1/64" on one side and 1/50" & 1/100" on the other.
[attachimg=2]
36...1/2 mm & 1/32" on one side and 1 mm & 1/64" on the other.
[attachimg=3]
35...1/2 mm & 1 mm on both sides.
[attachimg=4]
Attachments
Cheese
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 12,511
Just another feature of 4R not yet mentioned.
If you are measuring with the 1/8 scale, and you find it is not fine enough, rotate the tool 180 degrees and you're on 16ths. If that isn't fine enough roll it once and you're on 32nds. If that's not fine enough rotate it 180 degrees and you're on 64ths. Like-wise, I often find myself looking at 32nds when I don't need them and reverse the roll/rotate to get to the resolution needed.
To me, it's more important on rules than on the combo square, but I think the Starrett 4R is the most woodworking-friendly scale out there.
If you are measuring with the 1/8 scale, and you find it is not fine enough, rotate the tool 180 degrees and you're on 16ths. If that isn't fine enough roll it once and you're on 32nds. If that's not fine enough rotate it 180 degrees and you're on 64ths. Like-wise, I often find myself looking at 32nds when I don't need them and reverse the roll/rotate to get to the resolution needed.
To me, it's more important on rules than on the combo square, but I think the Starrett 4R is the most woodworking-friendly scale out there.
Birdhunter
Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,144
I bought the Starrett 6” double square a while ago and find I am using it more than any of my other squares. I only buy the satin finish blades due to their greater visibility. I also sometimes put a pencil mark on the blade. The marks are easy to erase on the satin. My tools are a mix of metric and Imperial so I have to buy both.
FestitaMakool
Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2019
- Messages
- 1,491
Thanks for a lot of good info. I’ll probably order at least one combination square and one double square from Starret.
I just stumbled over this video from How It’s Made: Featuring Starret.
=share
I just stumbled over this video from How It’s Made: Featuring Starret.
=share
Similar threads
