Static Electricity Question

[barnowl]

The background, leading to the question.

Just stopped into a new WoodCraft store in Walpole MA, and happened upon a dust collectetor blade guard now offered for my Stop Saw contractor's saw.

It's a P/N TSG-DC  The best picture is at this site:

http://www.amazon.com/SawStop-TSG-DC-Collection-Blade-Guard/dp/B005VDA3TO

Previously, the above the table dust collection on the saw was terrible.

Asked the manager if it would fit a Festool hose, as I have a few. (all, anti-static)

We tried it with the 27 mm, and it can be forced in, but was far from ideal.

Tried the 36 mm, and it fits on the outside of the outlet pretty well.

So, I bought the blade guard.

But on the way home, got to thinking about the issues with the Dust Deputy, and burning out the electronics in Festool vacs,

so, I'm wondering...

Will there be an issue?

I'm thinking not, as dust isn't swirling like in the Dust Deputy, but just being gathered at and end point at the end of the 11 foot hose,

but had to ask.

Thanks in advance....

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

As much as I'd like to advise you one way or the other, I can't as I'd be speculating. The question would likely be better asked of Saw Stop.

Shane

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm starting to detect some mass hysteria about the danger of anti-static electricity.

No, you don't have to worry. Use your blade guard as much as you want.

What good is a vac if it can't be used with 3rd party products?

 

[barnowl]

As much as I'd like to advise you one way or the other, I can't as I'd be speculating. The question would likely be better asked of Saw Stop.

Shane

Shane, It's good (and bad) to see that you give pause to this as well.

I'm thinking that Saw Stop would have no idea, as their product is nothing more than a "collection point".

Please run this by Festool...

...as it is their "anti static hose" and their "modules".

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Like Alex suggests, I don't think there should be "mass hysteria" as he put it. Up until the recent incidents with the Dust Deputy, I can't recall any issues with any other third party product. Even the Dust Deputy was at one point seemingly without problem. And then we began receiving a lot of reports of issues.

However, like I said, I would be speculating and I'm not going to do that. From a strictly hypothetical point of view, the dust collection port doesn't make contact with any spinny things and therefore shouldn't produce static in any quantity.

Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer.

 

[williaty]

Can someone post a link to the discussion of static with the Dust Deputy? I have one and I'd like to read it for myself and apply some actual science knowledge ( :lol: ) and figure out if it's something I need to resolve or just a lot of hot, swirly air.

 

[Paul G]

Can someone post a link to the discussion of static with the Dust Deputy? I have one and I'd like to read it for myself and apply some actual science knowledge ( :lol: ) and figure out if it's something I need to resolve or just a lot of hot, swirly air.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/warranty-issues-using-dd-non-festool-vac/

 

[williaty]

Thanks!

 

[greg mann]

I'm starting to detect some mass hysteria about the danger of anti-static electricity.

No, you don't have to worry. Use your blade guard as much as you want.

What good is a vac if it can't be used with 3rd party products?

What Alex said.

 

[peter halle]

It should be noted that I don't work for Festool.  I have been a moderator here for about 3 1/2 years and have done everything in my power to read as many posts as possible.  I am also a contractor who uses Festools to make a living and I intermix Festool anti-static hoses  and other brand non anti-static hoses into the mix with my CT-22.  My CT happily lives 5 plus years later.  

I did not recall a post regarding static issues and CT's until recently with the Dust Deputy.  I just did a search - you can do the same one.  Go to search and type in the word "static" and then in the date range type 365 and leave the other box 9999.  You should get about three pages of results.  Unless I am mistaken after running thru those titles, not one mentioned in the title is an issue with static caused by anything and damaging the CT's.  I admit that I didn't read all those threads and I won't.

The issue at hand (in my mind) is that the Dust Deputy seems to causing an issue with the CT's now.  It doesn't appear to always have been an issue.  Prior to the recent posts of a representative of Oneida there was another Oneida poster who posted here to introduce and market the product.  That member's name was Dust Deputy.  I you want to see those posts here is a link:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/profile/?u=7761;sa=showPosts  (I am assuming that viewing a member's posts this way is not exclusive to administrative staff)  I don't believe that there was a post there that would indicate that they were made aware of a problem with static at that time frame.

So, based on this search it would seem to me that static issues with accessories haven't been an issue to the CT's in the past, and now all of the sudden...  And now the manufacturer has come up with a proposed solution.

Just food for thought.

Peter

 

[Paul G]

The issue at hand (in my mind) is that the Dust Deputy seems to causing an issue with the CT's now..(snip).. And now the manufacturer has come up with a proposed solution.

Yes, seems like the Dust Deputy sparked the surge and it has become quite a lightening rod to this charged topic.

 

[Corwin]

...
However, like I said, I would be speculating and I'm not going to do that. From a strictly hypothetical point of view, the dust collection port doesn't make contact with any spinny things and therefore shouldn't produce static in any quantity.

Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer.

It is not the "spinny things" that are the cause of static.  Rather, it is the volume of material -- dust in this case -- that passes by the plastic parts that is the cause.  Particles passing through hoses and such lose some of their outer electrons to the surfaces that they come in contact (collide) with, leaving those particles with a positive charge and the surfaces they are in contact with a negative charge.  If one's system is left without a sufficient means to both 1) collect these charges and 2) provide a proper and continuous path to ground, then these static charges are allowed to build up and present a potential problem.

Several members have stated, or even SHOUTED that there is no issue with static simply because they haven't personally experienced it themselves.  Rubbish, as all you i the UK like to say.  Static can be an issue and should not be ignored.

As to the blade-guard dust collector that is the topic of this thread, I suspect that it will either not be an issue, or at least the only preventative measure one would require is to place some conductive material (copper tape) along the inside surface of the blade guard that leads to and connects with the tool-end fitting of the hose that you are connecting it to.  That way you will have controlled any possible build up of static at the source that is not otherwise grounded.

 

[barnowl]

Thanks to all that have weighed in.

Much appreciated.

Static is a funny thing. Sometimes as simple as walking across a carpet, and touching a door knob.

Why a door knob? It's not grounded....

???

Therefore...the reason that I say it's a funny thing.

For the record, this is not a case of any kind of hysteria, but  I do know from personal experience that using my Jet 1100 dust collector, connected with a 4" x 10' flexible hose, connected to a Jet 16-32 sander...static develops, and touching the hose will give a mild shock.

Something as simple as a connecting a short piece of wire to the metal spiral in the hose, and then to a bolt on the dust collector, eliminates all of the static build - up.

But also realize that that scenario is a high volume of fine dust, at high velocity, for a long period of time.

I would think that the above the table saw dust collector is a completely different scenario, as in even ripping an 8' long board, it's not a high volume per se, nor a long period of time, as in the case with sanding for a lengthy period of time.

And the sawdust is much, much courser.

But I figured it's better to ask.

 

[Jim Andrada]

Frankly I'd be more worried about a dust explosion than about damaging a circuit card. Dust explosions are bad things and can really ruin your day. Or worse. Much worse.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

I have the same blade guard and use it with my CT vac.
I don't think there should be any issues as long as you use the antistatic hose that is properly grounded through the vac's port, and plugged into an appropriately grounded outlet. Even if there was a large amount of static (which I doubt) generated at the guard, it would be dissipated through the hose.
As I understand, the real issue with dust deputy units occurs when the connection from the outlet of the DD to the inlet of the vac isn't done with an antistatic hose. So while one could have an AS hose on the tool to DD end, the cylinder would be generating static, and this in turn would not get dissipated through the connection to the vac, then would cause problems once ingested by the vac.

Anecdotally, I have never felt a build up of static around the plastic dust collection guard (you know, where the charge would raise a few hairs or feel "fuzzy"). Additionally, I don't know if it matters, but the large riving knife sitting in the middle of the guard should be grounded to the saw (as is the saw's cast iron table and chassis), so assuming there is a charge that builds up, it has a easy path to ground via that piece of metal.

By the way, the dust collection guard is incredible, enjoy it.

Thanks to all that have weighed in.

Much appreciated.

Static is a funny thing. Sometimes as simple as walking across a carpet, and touching a door knob.

Why a door knob? It's not grounded....

???

Therefore...the reason that I say it's a funny thing.

For the record, this is not a case of any kind of hysteria, but  I do know from personal experience that using my Jet 1100 dust collector, connected with a 4" x 10' flexible hose, connected to a Jet 16-32 sander...static develops, and touching the hose will give a mild shock.

Something as simple as a connecting a short piece of wire to the metal spiral in the hose, and then to a bolt on the dust collector, eliminates all of the static build - up.

But also realize that that scenario is a high volume of fine dust, at high velocity, for a long period of time.

I would think that the above the table saw dust collector is a completely different scenario, as in even ripping an 8' long board, it's not a high volume per se, nor a long period of time, as in the case with sanding for a lengthy period of time.

And the sawdust is much, much courser.

But I figured it's better to ask.