Stolen Festool
- Thread starter Roadkilled
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jobsworth said:
Many moons ago, way back sometime before was 39, the Tinkers were sort of traveling tin smiths. They went around from neighborhood to neighborhood fixing pots and pans and all sorts of odd jobs. Sort of like todays itinerant home repair "specialists". when they left an area, all sorts of goodies would be gone. Maybe some of the repairs would have been made and paid for, but not those goodies had been any part of the deal.
When t was discovered that there was a band of Tinkers close by, the cry among the neighboring villages would be "The Tinkers are coming! The Tinkers are coming!". That was a warning to all for everybody to nail down anything of value. OR it might soon be gone.
a few years ago, my wife and I went out to dinner every Friday evening to a very nice, but small, restaurant. One of the waitresses was "auld country" Irish who we liked very much. As we became quite well acquainted, when we would call in for a table reservation, all we need to say was, "The tinkers are coming." As we walked in the door, there was always a table in a corner up front in a tucked away corner close the the front entrance door with a note of warning. "Reserved. The Tinkers are coming."
Not every body knew of the historical terminology, but the owners of the restaurant knew. The owners wife was born and raised in very rural village in Italy where she had learned all about Gypsies.
Another funny story while on the subject. i had a very good friend who was a local police officer. He had already advanced to detective lieutenant and eventually captain and later asst chief. He had recently married a very vivacious young lady who we all liked as well as her husband. The two of them together would be the life of any party. One evening, the husband was telling us about having been spending nearly the entire day chasing down a band of Gypsies who were pedaling furniture around town. the fact hat the furniture was of very poor quality was not so much the problem, but the group was not licensed to be peddling, and certainly were not paying any of the taxes. No sooner than they had closed any deal, they were gone and by time the pieces had been set up, they started falling apart. This had been reported from other nearby towns. Nobody in our town had fallen for the ruse and had immediately reported to the police that a suspicious group of peddlers was in the area. My friend, by the time he arrived in a neighborhood, the peddlers were gone. soon, another report and the same result. When he arrived, the group was gone. He was about at his wits end by the time he got home from his rather trying day.
As he walked across the patio to his front door, he noticed some unfamiliar furniture arranged where none had been in the morning, or at anytime in the past within his memory. As he entered the house, his bride came running, as per usual, to give him a very warm embrace. this time, the embrace, besides the normal smooching, included, "Honey, did you notice the nice lawn furniture I just bought."
:
Tinker
Tyler Ernsberger
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My Electrician is Polish and he talks about gypsys all the time. I thought he was messing with me until I Google it. Its a big issue in Europe, sorta crazy. His favorite photo he showed me was a group of gypsys in line at a government facility and they took off there shoes in there spots in line and went a sat in chairs. It was really weird just seeing a line of shoes lined up in front of a counter. I asked him what would happened if you knocked the shoes out of the way and cut in line. His reponse seriously "Tyler you dont f****** do that those m**********s are crazy and will stab you". Sorry for the language. Not sure if its all Polish or just the ones I've met swear like drunk sailers.
Growing up in Ohio we had issues with Hispanic Migrate workers. They would work all summer and in the fall when the harvest was over they would steal everything that wasnt bolted down. It gave the Police something to do in my small town. Lol
Growing up in Ohio we had issues with Hispanic Migrate workers. They would work all summer and in the fall when the harvest was over they would steal everything that wasnt bolted down. It gave the Police something to do in my small town. Lol
Not meaning to get all politically correct here but does it really matter? The guys that got our fellow board member here were clearly in that upper tier of the "case the neighborhood for opportunities" thief that won't actually break into the home itself but are willing to take the time to force or pick the vehicle locks to get in the car or van. There is that lower tier of thief that brings no greater expertise to that sort of thievery than the means to walk up and down the street and figure out at a glance if you are likely to leave your car unlocked at night. They are just going to move on to the next vehicle if your car door is locked.
The level of thief that got our friend here is clearly willing to take the extra time to break into the car or van and able to do it quietly enough to get away with it. They can come away with a much larger haul of stuff given the added risk of staying there long enough to get it done. I think it was reported that according to the tape, it looked like these guys stayed on site for something like 20 minutes.
Here in the States it appears very difficult to get local Public Safety much excited about this sort of thievery which irritates me to no end. The thieves have to fence the stuff to get paid and it stands to reason that there are particular fences that specialize in tools. A concerted effort to "follow the money", would likely uncover a goodly number of these characters. I for one don't believe in the notion that the effort is not worthwhile because other thieves will just take the place of the thieves that get busted. The guys that will actually look for service vans, willing to break into them, steal and then fence the goods are part of a racket. Public Safety could well run into a giant number of tools in transit or warehoused waiting for sale if they played their cards right and could return a good many tools to their rightful owners. Not only that, but it would be a public relations victory for local Police.
Sorry for the rant but it seems to me, the way to catch these guys is from the tool backwards, not from the theft forward. Find the stolen tools where they end up after being fenced and work backwards to the guys actually breaking into the vehicles.
The level of thief that got our friend here is clearly willing to take the extra time to break into the car or van and able to do it quietly enough to get away with it. They can come away with a much larger haul of stuff given the added risk of staying there long enough to get it done. I think it was reported that according to the tape, it looked like these guys stayed on site for something like 20 minutes.
Here in the States it appears very difficult to get local Public Safety much excited about this sort of thievery which irritates me to no end. The thieves have to fence the stuff to get paid and it stands to reason that there are particular fences that specialize in tools. A concerted effort to "follow the money", would likely uncover a goodly number of these characters. I for one don't believe in the notion that the effort is not worthwhile because other thieves will just take the place of the thieves that get busted. The guys that will actually look for service vans, willing to break into them, steal and then fence the goods are part of a racket. Public Safety could well run into a giant number of tools in transit or warehoused waiting for sale if they played their cards right and could return a good many tools to their rightful owners. Not only that, but it would be a public relations victory for local Police.
Sorry for the rant but it seems to me, the way to catch these guys is from the tool backwards, not from the theft forward. Find the stolen tools where they end up after being fenced and work backwards to the guys actually breaking into the vehicles.
Tool theft is a great problem that my construction worker sons experience all the time on the job site. Lock boxes do a good job at night but walk by theft is all too common. Tools stolen from cars/trucks or homes like mentioned end up being sold at a discount and here I blame the person buying the tool that doesn't care where it came from as long as he or she is getting a bargain.
If there were no market for stolen goods there would be no incentive to steal so, I blame the greedy that most of the time kinda knows that the item is "hot".
Buy your tools from a known dealer and help stop the incentive to steal.
Jack
If there were no market for stolen goods there would be no incentive to steal so, I blame the greedy that most of the time kinda knows that the item is "hot".
Buy your tools from a known dealer and help stop the incentive to steal.
Jack
Roadkilled
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Just an update on how things are.
No tools and no contact from the police since they came round the morning after.
The insurance company are being utter b@stards. Now they are saying they only pay out for second hand tools. When I said that's ok second hand festool sell for just under retail. They went on to say that doesn't matter. They use an "industry standard formula" to work out the cost of the tool secondhand nothing to do with the actual second hand price!!!!!! WTF
In other words I'm fooked. If it wasn't for festools own insurance plan I would have to be calling it a day as the company just couldn't afford to replace the tools.
When I took the insurance out I wasn't told all this and I quizzed them quite hard on everything. I've rang and asked for the voice recording of when I bought the insurance but they refused saying its a waste of time releasing it too you as it has no bearing on the claim and that I was supplied with a book. Yes a book! that I should have read and if I didn't like it I had 14 days to cancel.
It's not like this insurance is cheap. Can't remember exactly but not far off £1000 a year. I used to say years ago insurance is a waste of time and you should just stick what they would charge you in a jar. Funnily enough I would nearly have had enough to pay for everything as I've had it about 5 years now.
Truly gutted!
No tools and no contact from the police since they came round the morning after.
The insurance company are being utter b@stards. Now they are saying they only pay out for second hand tools. When I said that's ok second hand festool sell for just under retail. They went on to say that doesn't matter. They use an "industry standard formula" to work out the cost of the tool secondhand nothing to do with the actual second hand price!!!!!! WTF
In other words I'm fooked. If it wasn't for festools own insurance plan I would have to be calling it a day as the company just couldn't afford to replace the tools.
When I took the insurance out I wasn't told all this and I quizzed them quite hard on everything. I've rang and asked for the voice recording of when I bought the insurance but they refused saying its a waste of time releasing it too you as it has no bearing on the claim and that I was supplied with a book. Yes a book! that I should have read and if I didn't like it I had 14 days to cancel.
It's not like this insurance is cheap. Can't remember exactly but not far off £1000 a year. I used to say years ago insurance is a waste of time and you should just stick what they would charge you in a jar. Funnily enough I would nearly have had enough to pay for everything as I've had it about 5 years now.
Truly gutted!
Tyler Ernsberger
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My company had a skid steer stolen off of one of our job sites and they gave us the value of a used one that had about the same hours. It was sorta crappy.
promhandicam
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Sorry to hear about the problems with the insurance. Who are you insured with? My tradesman policy including public liability is around £380 for £25k worth of tools and machinery.
wrightwoodwork
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What a joke. Is this the only insurance policy you hold with this company. If more I would be tempted to close other policies with them
Roadkilled
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Yes I have the actual van insured with them. It'll all change in a few months at renewal time.
sancho57
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Might want to check with a lawyer. The UK ins companies seem a little Shadey and try to get out of paying.
They tried to bend my bud over when someone stole the exhaust system from his van.
They didn't want to pay for OEM parts. They went round and end until they finally gave in.
They tried to bend my bud over when someone stole the exhaust system from his van.
They didn't want to pay for OEM parts. They went round and end until they finally gave in.
SMJoinery
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In the UK An accountant will depreciate the assets of a business by an allowance in your returns each year and I think its this depreciation that insurance companies use to distort the value of replacement tools, plant and vehicles.
He told me that he saw an instance where the asset depreciated 25% upon first use and by a further 25% each year thereafter. At this rate it's worth half by the end of year 1 and worthless by the end of year 3!
I hope never to use it but when you realise that if a registered Festool here in the UK was stolen in year 2 - 3 it would cost only £100 to replace it with new then it is a superb "safety net" for a small business.
I hope you get it all sorted out asap and the culprits get caught red handed along with anyone who buys the kit at a price that can only mean it's nicked!
He told me that he saw an instance where the asset depreciated 25% upon first use and by a further 25% each year thereafter. At this rate it's worth half by the end of year 1 and worthless by the end of year 3!
I hope never to use it but when you realise that if a registered Festool here in the UK was stolen in year 2 - 3 it would cost only £100 to replace it with new then it is a superb "safety net" for a small business.
I hope you get it all sorted out asap and the culprits get caught red handed along with anyone who buys the kit at a price that can only mean it's nicked!
Sparktrician
Member
Here in the US, there's a difference in payout based on really misleading language in the policies. Most insurance companies want to sell you a policy that offers "actual cash value" if there's a need for payout. What they really mean is "depreciated cost value", not the actual amount of cash it would take for you to replace the lost items. They seem reluctant to tell the customer that for very little more in the premiums, they will give you a "replacement cost" policy. They deliberately use language that is misleading so they don't have to pay out what you think you've contracted with them to get if there's a loss. It sucks, but it's legal.
I agree with all on Insurance company policies and thats why I shop around and find an honest agent that will give you the straight story. Perhaps I've been "lucky" but if they jerk me around I'll go shopping with my multiple car and home insurance.
Jack
Jack
NH-Engineering
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It is sad to be robbed like this. Wath if the tools had been equiped with an unique key or code and you had to unlock the tool to use it? Than stolen tools would have been useless for everyone else than the true owner.
First you get robbed by a bunch of bastar*s, then you get robbed by a bunch of suits. There does not seem to be any justice there.
Keep on at the insurance company and be a pain to them, they might want to deal with it quickly and quietly just to get you off their back.
Good luck with all of this.
Keep on at the insurance company and be a pain to them, they might want to deal with it quickly and quietly just to get you off their back.
Good luck with all of this.
You're being robbed three times actually. The first time is by the thieves, then by the insurance companies who are in turn robbed by all the fraudulent claims they process. When we register honest claims we pay the price for all the insurance fraud out there too.
My advice with any insurance company is not to argue for too long as it is a waste of time. Ask them what their complaint procedure is and initiate it immediately in writing. Inform them at the same time that you have already spoken to the Insurance Ombudsman and registered a complaint with them. It's the only thing I have found that makes a difference.
The other piece of advice is to assume that everything that is said at the point of sale is a complete lie. I got really paranoid about this last time I insured my tools and quizzed several companies who assured me that their policies were "all risk" with the only condition being "forced entry". I checked out all of their policy details in full prior to purchase and then asked all of them about lots of ambiguities in each policy.
The one that I remember the most was a policy where supposedly my tools were covered anywhere in the UK wherever the vehicle was parked at any time of day or night. The only condition was the usual one of forced entry. This is what "all risk" is sold as by the brokers. After a lot of probing having read the policy this actually turned out to mean that the vehicle was only covered under limited hours and had to actually be inside a locked building to be covered. This wasn't stated anywhere in writing but was the answer I was given after a lot of probing to an ambiguous clause in the policy.
The other key question you have to ask especially when insuring Festool tools is does the policy include "new for old" cover. Almost all of them don't and being offered a typical second hand value based on average industry figures won't begin to cover the cost of Festool replacements.
I ended up insuring my tools on the back of my Axa public liability insurance as they seemed to answer all my questions satisfactorily. I still couldn't get "new for old" but felt that I at least "might be insured" in the event of a theft.
When insuring your tools you have to think like a thief, both in the way you initially protect them from the initial theft and then the thieves (insurance companies) that provide cover. The problem is an honest man won't begin to cover all the angles unless you are prepared to invest a disproportionate amount of effort to protect yourself. I think a standing order of £20/week into a separate savings account is the best method in many ways. If you don't get robbed you have a fund that can pay for a decent holiday from time to time.
My advice with any insurance company is not to argue for too long as it is a waste of time. Ask them what their complaint procedure is and initiate it immediately in writing. Inform them at the same time that you have already spoken to the Insurance Ombudsman and registered a complaint with them. It's the only thing I have found that makes a difference.
The other piece of advice is to assume that everything that is said at the point of sale is a complete lie. I got really paranoid about this last time I insured my tools and quizzed several companies who assured me that their policies were "all risk" with the only condition being "forced entry". I checked out all of their policy details in full prior to purchase and then asked all of them about lots of ambiguities in each policy.
The one that I remember the most was a policy where supposedly my tools were covered anywhere in the UK wherever the vehicle was parked at any time of day or night. The only condition was the usual one of forced entry. This is what "all risk" is sold as by the brokers. After a lot of probing having read the policy this actually turned out to mean that the vehicle was only covered under limited hours and had to actually be inside a locked building to be covered. This wasn't stated anywhere in writing but was the answer I was given after a lot of probing to an ambiguous clause in the policy.
The other key question you have to ask especially when insuring Festool tools is does the policy include "new for old" cover. Almost all of them don't and being offered a typical second hand value based on average industry figures won't begin to cover the cost of Festool replacements.
I ended up insuring my tools on the back of my Axa public liability insurance as they seemed to answer all my questions satisfactorily. I still couldn't get "new for old" but felt that I at least "might be insured" in the event of a theft.
When insuring your tools you have to think like a thief, both in the way you initially protect them from the initial theft and then the thieves (insurance companies) that provide cover. The problem is an honest man won't begin to cover all the angles unless you are prepared to invest a disproportionate amount of effort to protect yourself. I think a standing order of £20/week into a separate savings account is the best method in many ways. If you don't get robbed you have a fund that can pay for a decent holiday from time to time.
promhandicam
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FWIW, I am also with Axa for my PLI and tools both in the van and workshop and on site.
I had just had my truck serviced at the dealership. The truck had very low milage and was still in good condition. I had paid for the service and went to start the truck. Sparks flew from behind the switch and all of the wiring burned out under the dash and back to the battery. A lot of sparks and smoke.
I went in to talk to the shop manager. He asked if there were any flames. I told him there were sparks, but mostly just melted insulation and wires. I thought he would give me a hard time, but he just went to a bench, grabbed a propane torch and walked to my truck. He just burned all around the switch and some of the visible portion of the dashboard. He then proceeded to set fires under the hood. I was staring with my jaw clunking my kneecaps and asked, "What the h--- are you doing?" "Well, if there is no sign of actual flame, your insurance will probably not cover for any of the damages."
I have never had any other truck catch fire except an old clunker that we only used on sites. That was close to junk yard and the exhaust system was full of holes catching the floorboards on fire every now and then. But that new truck was a different matter. The insurance adjuster looked at the truck and the shop manager did the talking. I got paid for damages and we were all happy.
Tinker
I went in to talk to the shop manager. He asked if there were any flames. I told him there were sparks, but mostly just melted insulation and wires. I thought he would give me a hard time, but he just went to a bench, grabbed a propane torch and walked to my truck. He just burned all around the switch and some of the visible portion of the dashboard. He then proceeded to set fires under the hood. I was staring with my jaw clunking my kneecaps and asked, "What the h--- are you doing?" "Well, if there is no sign of actual flame, your insurance will probably not cover for any of the damages."
I have never had any other truck catch fire except an old clunker that we only used on sites. That was close to junk yard and the exhaust system was full of holes catching the floorboards on fire every now and then. But that new truck was a different matter. The insurance adjuster looked at the truck and the shop manager did the talking. I got paid for damages and we were all happy.
Tinker
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