Struggling to get payment from a client.

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I've watched this for a while now and its started to grate on me.

I don't think there is any need for lawyers or liens etc. the guy obviously wasn't happy with what you had done even if it was technically right it doesnt matter as he wasnt happy. Now it has been complete and final invoice sent. Did you put a time scale on this final payment? I would have said within 7 days.

 
A few years ago, (back when I first turned 39) I had run into some financial trouble (the first step to recovery had been to fire my entire crew of seven, keeping only one who had not been part of the problem) and was having great problems with paying many of my suppliers. My biggest supplier, one day when I ordered a load of concrete blocks told me i needed to pay cash.  This was over the phone and i told him i had no cash.  "No cash, NO blocks"

We ended up having a rather long discussion where I told him that every evening i went over the books to determine if i was ctually gaining on the problem.  I was slowly getting myself 'out from under', but it was going to be a long haul.  if my credit got cut off, we would all be loosers.  I finally said, "Look, I do own my house.  It has a small mortgage, but I owe a whole lot less than it is worth.  Attach me.  Not my bank account, but my house.  It will take you six months to a year for you to get me out of there by taking ownership.  I will have my lawyer draw up the papers for you.  I can get him down to your office tomorrow morning."

"How many blocks do you want?"

I told him i meant what i had said and thanked him for taking my order.  As soon as my order had been placed and a time for delivery had been established, i got in my truck and drove the thirty miles to my supplier's office and asked to see him.  I told him i meant what i had said and I could call my lawyer right then and there.  "Get out of here." The order to get out of his office was not given in an unfriendly manner and we continued to do business for several more years and he never asked for prepayment again.  It took me two years to get out from under the load, including paying off a loan i had co-signed for one of my fired helpers.  He had been the main cog in the wheel of pain.  That young man eventually paid me back in full.  I never retaliated for his transgression beyond the fireing and today, some 40+ years later, we are still friends. My credit is in very good shape.  The whole problem had been handled (many other suppliers were itchy along the way) but none actually cut off my credit.

The difference, WayneLang, is, that your "client" has done everything to avoid coming clean.  I went around knocking on doors to let creditors know i was thinking about them and sometimes handed out checks in partial payment.  I even handed out lists of the other suppliers i owed money to. I figured they could all, then commiserate or come after me gangland style.  I guess they all commiserated.  I was able to keep working and still own my house.
Tinker
 
I don't mean to sound rude but with all the anecdotes and moral stands, unless I've missed it what is lacking here is some serious legal content. It shouldn't be that hard to find out which procedure you actually need to follow in SA to deal with these kinds of things. Right now it seems to me you are still just hoping the guy will pay without having any idea of where you stand legally. For all you know, your client might well know things about this to be playing you. You would do yourself a really big favor and inform yourself before doing anything else. Again I don't mean to be rude but until you know what your rights are and which procedure you need to follow to play this by the book, you might as well be wasting what could turn out to be very precious time.

I'm sure there are places to go to get free legal advise, maybe even online as most public information can be found there. Otherwise, give the lawyer a call, if money is an issue ask him if you could pay him in work. Even a 10 minute talk with him should enlighten you and that information could turn out to be essential. Why simply wait?
From what you're saying, it isn't unfair to assume the client is seriously jerking you around, why not stay on the ball and prepare yourself for that. Maybe he'll pay you in a couple days, but then at least you'll have learned for the future.

When planning which route to take to where you want to go, you first need to know where you are, right? I don't think you know where you are in this but you should be able to find out.

IMHO; Get yourself informed Wayne, I'm sure you won't regret it.
 
Guys, at this point Wayne has gotten all the advice we can offer.  I'm sure he'd like to get this behind him so he dosen't need us rehashing what could have or should be done over and over again.  At this point even well meaning posts of advice are like throwing salt in his wounds.  Give the man a break.

Wayne, I wish you best in getting this resolved as soon as possible.     
 
Bob Gerritsen said:
Sure didn't mean to bug you Wayne, hope you get this sorted!

Doesnt matter one way or the other.  Everyone wants to help based on there experiences.  In fact I'm glad you gave an opinion as I'm learning based on the responses in this thread.
 
"When planning which route to take to where you want to go, you first need to know where you are, right?"

That quote is a valuable tool and can be used on a daily basis.  Thanks for sharing.
 
Bob Gerritsen said:
Sure didn't mean to bug you Wayne, hope you get this sorted!

Hey Bob, I dont take any of your guys comments in any kind of negative way, if i didnt want to talk about this issue I would never have posted it. With regards to legal advise, I do have the means to get some but for now im going to leave it alone. I have been so stressed with this situation that my health has actually suffered so im trying to be as calm as possible for now. I will be phoning the customer tomorrow to see what is going on with the payment and see what he says. If in 2 days I have not received payment I will be consulting my legal representation and give this customer the hardest time of his life.

Cheers,

P.S keep the advise coming in guys.  I am learning a heck of a lot from everyone, and I appreciate the words of encouragment.
 
If my health was suffering because of a client and them not paying money owed on a job I would never do work for them again even if I had no other work. The only way I would do work for them again is full payment up front before one single screw would be bought! Give them an ultimatum two days to pay or legal action
 
waynelang2001 said:
Bob Gerritsen said:
Sure didn't mean to bug you Wayne, hope you get this sorted!

Hey Bob, I dont take any of your guys comments in any kind of negative way, if i didnt want to talk about this issue I would never have posted it. With regards to legal advise, I do have the means to get some but for now im going to leave it alone. I have been so stressed with this situation that my health has actually suffered so im trying to be as calm as possible for now. I will be phoning the customer tomorrow to see what is going on with the payment and see what he says. If in 2 days I have not received payment I will be consulting my legal representation and give this customer the hardest time of his life.

Cheers,

P.S keep the advise coming in guys.  I am learning a heck of a lot from everyone, and I appreciate the words of encouragment.

Wayne, I told you a while back about a time when i took a neighbor into court over non-payment of a bill.  when he first told me he was not going to pay, i was, on the surface, fairly non-challant about it.  i did not want to get my wife too upset.  Even tho it was eating at me, i put up a good front until>>>>>
1 About the second or third nite, I was supposedly sound asleep when my wife started yelling at me.  [scared] When i woke up, from her yelling, she told me I was kicking her.  OOPS!  I of course apologized, but I thought it was strange.
2  The next nite, she woke me up again.  I was biting her on the shoulder.

That was it.  The next morning i called my lawyer.  As soon as he took over, i just sat back and enjoyed the ride.  It cost me a third of the amount i had coming, but it was worth it.  I not only got to watch the neighbor squirm, but i was actually having fun during the trial.  I was sitting between my lawyer and his lawyer and when the neighbor made a very big mistook, a mistook that decided to whole case in my favor, the opposing lawyer just shook his head and put his face on the table.  I just reached over and patted him on the back like I would pat a kid coming off the field after a soccer game he had lost.

Fast forward:  About two or three years later, I was just sitting down to evening dinner when i got a phone call from a stranger.  As he talked to me about some work he wanted me to look at, i was sounding sort of vague.  I had not recognized the man's name when he had first called and he began to realize same. "Obviously, you don't recognize who I am."

"Not really."

"Well, a few years back, during a court case against your neighbor, it was brought out that you are a very good mason.  i was the other lawyer."

OOPS!  The red flags went up.  He anticipated as much so he told me he would like very much for me to look at a problem on his house, to which, out of curiosity, I agreed to meet with him.
After looking at his problem, I finally told him about my own confusion.  i told him i found it interesting that he had spent two hours in court trying to prove that I was a darned fool. And now he was asking the fool to do some work for him.

"Don't you know?  We lawyers don't always believe what we are trying to prove."

I ended up taking care of his masonry problem and a couple of years later, when he found out i was going into the landscaping business, he called me again.  I then worked on his property for about a year getting it into shape to put on the market.  At the same time I was working for him, I was also doing landscaping for my own lawyer.  i worked for him for two or three years as well as plowing his driveway during the same period.

My court adventure ended up being very profitable, but i really don't think i would want to try again.

I wish you the best of luck. 
Tinker

 
 
we have a saying here that suits you tinker.
the jist is that no mater what you fall into you come out smeling of roses,
i think that is because you dont take these situations to heart (except with those 100% responsible). i have seen too many people fall out because they were around (or partally involved but not resonsible) when a situation went south
 
Every time I'm forced to hound someone for payment, I think of this kid.  I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!

Thought it might give you a good laugh Wayne.



Jon
 
galwaydude18 said:
Have you had any luck with getting your payment yet?

No luck yet, I went past there house today again to pick up my CXS that I left behind by mistake, I thought I had lost it because I turned my workshop upside down looking for it then realized I used it last at there place. I sent her 3 sms's asking if it was there but she just replied she was busy. Turns out she saw it the day i last work there, put it in her kitchen cupboard and just didnt bother to tell me I left it there.

Anyway she just tells me now her husband has just started work today. Looks like he only ever cheeks his emails at work for some strange reason. What I wonder now is why, when he was off work, didnt he pay me the money ??? The last excuse I got was that he is a very busy man at work and will pay when he has time. Well he had 3 weeks off work sitting his *** at home so why didnt he pay then ?? I will send him one last email tomorrow and then its time to get my lawyer involved.
 
good to hear that wayne (the lawyer part).
very lucky to get the cxs back.
looks like they were trying to pull another fast one. im sure in a week or more it would be moved on and never seen again
 
Send one last email giving them three days to pay you what your owed and advise them your gettin your lawyer after that and also make sure your lawer can get extra for the finincial pressure and stress they the client have caused you and your family!

And for your own sake never do work for them cheats again.
 
woodguy7 said:
It kinda sounds like they "can't" pay you.

This. 

Which makes the situation somewhat easier to understand but much harder to resolve, more so if there is any omissions, deficiencies, misunderstandings or confusion regarding the work to be done, the price to be paid and the associated terms. 

Again I have no knowledge of the situation, but I wonder if this is past the point where it is worth pursuing.  Do you have collection agencies there, and do they take cases such as this one?  Because while I wish you the best I seriously doubt you will ever collect this debt yourself.

Jeff
 
waynelang2001 said:
I will send him one last email tomorrow and then its time to get my lawyer involved.
I don't think a lawyer is going to do much for you.He will help you by telling you what you can do legally.
But the problem is not that they are denying that they owe you the money,the problem is collecting the money.
What i would do is comfront them and ask "why are you not paying me for the work i did?"  "was the job OK for you?'"
At that point they will tell you or ignore you.If they ignore you then you know they are not planning on paying you.
You will need to take them to court and fight it yourself,but even if you win,there's no guaranty they will pay you.
Good luck.
 
They have car mounted flame throwers to stop carjacking in South Africa, I bet they've got my kind of collection agencies.  [big grin]
 
This has absolutely nothing in point about your situation, but it's a good collection story,

When I lived in Jerusalem years ago I knew a plumber that had a plumbing company.
He had a large job in the old city where he did extensive retrofitting throughout the entire house.
During the course of the job he had issues getting progress payments and knew that at completion he would have a problem.
So during the last segment he put a ball valve to a feed line that fed half the house. [big grin](It was buried under tiles - most floors are tiled in Jerusalem)
On the day of the walk-thru everything worked flawlessly, he told his client that he would come back the next day to collect his tools and his check.
Upon the morning of the next day, the client gave a sob story and said it would take them a few weeks to secure the funds. ::)
He said fine and took an hour to collect his tools and left.
That evening he got a very excited call, their water wasn't working in half the house!
Really? Was his reply.
"Well that could be corrected after he receives his final payment, (or they could tear apart the entire line looking for the culprit)

He got paid in cash that evening.
(After he got paid he went to that one tile that was set with heavy double face tape lifted it, turned on the water, set the tile and left with a very calm manor)

True story.
 
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