Suggestions, recommendations and advice for a Hobbyist

[MrAlighieri]

I'd get a table saw over a tracksaw any day.    If you have the space for a Table Saw- get a good old one!    
The tracksaws are good tools, and I think a little safer then a tablesaw, also much more compact,  but if you have a permident shop - get a tablesaw.    Tracksaws excel at working with sheet goods and angles; once you get into furniture making though where you are wanting to cut joints with the saw, rip narrow (less then 6in wide) components - all that sorta stuff - a table saw (esp a Sawstop or old Unisaw) is a great option.  
Now if the choice is between a jobsite saw and a Tracksaw, harder choice.   The tracksaw, plus Parallel Guides, plus MFT type thing, well I'd recommended for someone starting out to put that same money into a good semi-pro+ table saw.

Hummm....that is informative even if it makes the choice harder.  I have the room for a contractors tablesaw (probably sawstop for me).   I am short a good circular saw and I work a lot with 4x8 ply which my current tablesaw, with it's postage sized top, doesn't handle all that great.  If you had a tablesaw that could rip well enough for the time being and could upgrade it or get a tracksaw and a 420 jig, which would you do?

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[sancho57]

I look at it like this.
When I first discovered wood working I started buying every gimmiky tool around especially when I went to wood working shows.

I also went cheap on some things which broke in the middle of project.

So my advice to you is spend the money for the things you know you will need.

Router, sander, work table dust extractor ,saw (whether table or track) ect router table.

This way you will buy them Once

 

[MrAlighieri]

I look at it like this.
When I first discovered wood working I started buying every gimmiky tool around especially when I went to wood working shows.

I also went cheap on some things which broke in the middle of project.

So my advice to you is spend the money for the things you know you will need.

Router, sander, work table dust extractor ,saw (whether table or track) ect router table.

This way you will buy them Once

Jobsworth,

I have done the same thing.  I now only buy the "Best" in the class of tools I want based on my budget and how much I use the tool.  I have a good router  (Porter Cable 690) and table (Kreg), My sanders are ok (craftsman and makita).  Dust collection? Isn't that what the wife or gf does after the project? jk   I have yet to even begin to address that part of my hobby. I'll look to that soon.  I am currently trying to decide on getting a sawstop or the tracksaw and jig.  I could keep my current tablesaw and buy the TS75 and 420 jig, then after I save up get the new Sawstop contractors saw. Or the otherway around, I am just not sure which is the best route, thus my questions. Thank you for your input.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[Paul G]

I'd keep the existing table saw and get a track saw and rails, opens up more possibilities IMO.

 

[Jmaichel]

Hello All,

I have come here looking for advice and recommendations from those that know.  A little background so everyone can have a frame of reference for the input.   I am not a carpenter by trade.  I work in IT.  However I do work a lot around my (and other peoples) house.  I have a shop of hand-me-down and used tools from my mechanic father.  He bought the best he could afford at the time, but often the quality wasn't exceptional.  I am looking to replace much of my shop with quality tools that will last my lifetime.  With that being said, I love the idea of a systemized approach to tools (IT guys love systems).  The systainer system is what brought me to Festools in the first place, now I am considering buying into the tools too.  However, for a non-contractor they are expensive and I am unsure which tool to start with.  So I have come to ask, if you were to outfit a hobby shop by priority which tools in order (and why) would you buy from Festools vs other makers.

I look forward to the discussion.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

Welcome to the FOG. First off the mindset that Festool tools are only for contractors or professionals is not correct. They fit in very nicely into a hobbyist shop, trust me I am a hobbyist and have a few Festool's. I don't have a Festool only shop but the items I do have fit nicely into my shop workflow. If your shop, like mine is shared with other household items or non shop related "stuff" then the dust collection part of the Festool system will become your best friend.
Don't think of it as a table saw vs track saw debate. I have both in my shop and they compliment each other nicely, I would not want to be without either. I would however suggest that if you do get a tracksaw you pony up th extra money for the TS75. I use the TS75 a lot for ripping 8/4 stock and edges on figured 4/4 stock that will tear out on my jointer. A lot of my woodworking is done late at night after the kid goes to bed and my Festool tools are considerably quieter than all of my machines or any other hand help power tools that I have used in the past.  
Here is what I would recommend for Festools:
TS75
CT26
Extra guide rail (I like having a 1400 but would go with a 1900 if you are ripping full sheets)
MFT3 (a Few clamping elements, QWAS Dogs)
OF1400 (leave the 690 in the table)
ETS 150

Again I can't stress enough the point that Festool's work very well in the hobbyist shop and even though the quality level is "professional" don't think that they are only for contractors and pros.

Hope this helped!

James

 

[stvrowe]

The saw you choose should largely depend on the materials you intend to cut with it the most.  If you mostly cut sheet goods, the TS offerings are a great choice.  If you mostly cut solid woods or work with smaller stock, then the tablesaw is a better choice IMHO.  On framing work, I am pretty old school and don't like plunge saws for that work - I reach for my old PC framing saw every time.  A long time ago during the last millenium, I worked on a framing crew and asked the boss why he always bought the $40 B&D circular saws instead of the more expensive ones.  While the prices have most certainly changed, his reply is still applicable today;  "I don't feel as bad when one of you guys drop a saw into the basement or off the roof with the cheaper saws."  Believe me - this does happen.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting thread.  I think the takeaway is that there are lots of right answers and it depends on how you like/need to work.

If you were doing this for a living or subscribe to the "get her done" philosophy then its best to organize your work so that you can make the same repetitive cut dozens of times and then move on to the next repetitive cut.  Dust control may be less of a priority and you clean the floor when the job is done.  Then you need a table saw.

If you are in less of a rush or do this for fun, there are lots of alternatives, including the Festool system (yeah, I'm a retired IT guy).

I have a big Unisaw, tricked out with lots of extras and well tuned.  I build furniture, mostly chairs, right now a bow-fronted chest of drawers.  I do 95 per cent of the work with the tracksaw and the MFT.  My work with Festool is as precise, or better, than that done on the table saw, including ripping thin strips.  But if you want to use the track saw precisely, you need the mft (or as said above build your own).  The cmc made matrix of holes are dead square and are the basis for alignment.

One big advantage of Festool, especially for a beginner is their top rate customer service - they will do what it takes to make it work - don't expect that from Delta or Sawstop.

TRy to go to one of the Festool classes - they are awesome!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[MrAlighieri]

Welcome to the FOG. First off the mindset that Festool tools are only for contractors or professionals is not correct. They fit in very nicely into a hobbyist shop, trust me I am a hobbyist and have a few Festool's. I don't have a Festool only shop but the items I do have fit nicely into my shop workflow. If your shop, like mine is shared with other household items or non shop related "stuff" then the dust collection part of the Festool system will become your best friend.
Don't think of it as a table saw vs track saw debate. I have both in my shop and they compliment each other nicely, I would not want to be without either. I would however suggest that if you do get a tracksaw you pony up th extra money for the TS75. I use the TS75 a lot for ripping 8/4 stock and edges on figured 4/4 stock that will tear out on my jointer. A lot of my woodworking is done late at night after the kid goes to bed and my Festool tools are considerably quieter than all of my machines or any other hand help power tools that I have used in the past.  
Here is what I would recommend for Festools:
TS75
CT26
Extra guide rail (I like having a 1400 but would go with a 1900 if you are ripping full sheets)
MFT3 (a Few clamping elements, QWAS Dogs)
OF1400 (leave the 690 in the table)
ETS 150

Again I can't stress enough the point that Festool's work very well in the hobbyist shop and even though the quality level is "professional" don't think that they are only for contractors and pros.

Hope this helped!

James

James,

Thank you for the clarity.  I often "Overbuy" when I want something.  If I think I need an item and there are 4 options, I usually buy the option that is one step up from what I think I need, so I don't have to buy it again. I like uniformity and efficiency which Festools seems to excel at.  My friends joke that I am a little OCD so the dust collection will certainly make my projects more enjoyable.  When I work for friends, I always tell them that the cleanup is up to them...I don't want to end up doing a project AND cleaning their house to my standards.  A lot of my work is done at night too, so the big tools are often saved till the weekends or first thing after I get home.  Thank you for the list.  It seems the tracksaw is being recommended by about everyone since I do own a tablesaw.  And I guess I should look into the dust collection, since it seems like a logical step and not just something "extra" to round out a collection. Plus it might save me a lot of scowls from the gf and my friends significant others.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[gdjenkins10]

Tablesaws - at one point, I had both a large JET with 56 inch table and an outfeed as well as a portable Bosch table saw.  I sold off the JET and forcing myself to rely on the Bosche and TS 75.  I do miss my big JET setup everytime I start a project because it was sturdy, dead straight and I amassed a lot of jigs over the years.  I like the space that I bought back but am toying with selling off my Bosch portable and going back to a smaller version of my tablesaw setup.  If you have a tablesaw you are happy with, hang on to it until you find you can do everything you need with just a Tracksaw.  Tracksaw and rail is fantastic but I have not gotten creative enough to depend on it solely.  

 

[MrAlighieri]

Interesting thread.  I think the takeaway is that there are lots of right answers and it depends on how you like/need to work.

If you were doing this for a living or subscribe to the "get her done" philosophy then its best to organize your work so that you can make the same repetitive cut dozens of times and then move on to the next repetitive cut.  Dust control may be less of a priority and you clean the floor when the job is done.  Then you need a table saw.

If you are in less of a rush or do this for fun, there are lots of alternatives, including the Festool system (yeah, I'm a retired IT guy).

I have a big Unisaw, tricked out with lots of extras and well tuned.  I build furniture, mostly chairs, right now a bow-fronted chest of drawers.  I do 95 per cent of the work with the tracksaw and the MFT.  My work with Festool is as precise, or better, than that done on the table saw, including ripping thin strips.  But if you want to use the track saw precisely, you need the mft (or as said above build your own).  The cmc made matrix of holes are dead square and are the basis for alignment.

One big advantage of Festool, especially for a beginner is their top rate customer service - they will do what it takes to make it work - don't expect that from Delta or Sawstop.

TRy to go to one of the Festool classes - they are awesome!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

*Chuckles* "Get Her Done"  My gf says I don't need any extra tools for that.   But back on topic,  I have done some cabinet work that required several repetitive cuts and I used and can see how the Tablesaw is the right tool for that.  But most of my work is for fun and not time sensitive.  I can take my time and do it well.  And I have "made do" with the tools I had for some projects that would have been easier and quicker with the right tool.  I just don't want to buy tools that I never use or are too difficult to work with that they get put in a case and neglected especially if I pay a premium for them.

I'll look into the classes.  Now I am starting to wonder if IT guys naturally gravitate to woodworking as a hobby. For me it allows me to work with my hands and use all my senses on a project, which I enjoy.

Thanks

Mr. Alighieri

 

[fidelfs]

Now I am starting to wonder if IT guys naturally gravitate to woodworking as a hobby. For me it allows me to work with my hands and use all my senses on a project, which I enjoy.

Thanks

Mr. Alighieri

I remember that I read about a guy that quit his IT job to become woodworker.  I guess there is something hidden in our personality that makes woodworking attractive to IT guys.

 

[Jmaichel]

Welcome to the FOG. First off the mindset that Festool tools are only for contractors or professionals is not correct. They fit in very nicely into a hobbyist shop, trust me I am a hobbyist and have a few Festool's. I don't have a Festool only shop but the items I do have fit nicely into my shop workflow. If your shop, like mine is shared with other household items or non shop related "stuff" then the dust collection part of the Festool system will become your best friend.
Don't think of it as a table saw vs track saw debate. I have both in my shop and they compliment each other nicely, I would not want to be without either. I would however suggest that if you do get a tracksaw you pony up th extra money for the TS75. I use the TS75 a lot for ripping 8/4 stock and edges on figured 4/4 stock that will tear out on my jointer. A lot of my woodworking is done late at night after the kid goes to bed and my Festool tools are considerably quieter than all of my machines or any other hand help power tools that I have used in the past.  
Here is what I would recommend for Festools:
TS75
CT26
Extra guide rail (I like having a 1400 but would go with a 1900 if you are ripping full sheets)
MFT3 (a Few clamping elements, QWAS Dogs)
OF1400 (leave the 690 in the table)
ETS 150

Again I can't stress enough the point that Festool's work very well in the hobbyist shop and even though the quality level is "professional" don't think that they are only for contractors and pros.

Hope this helped!

James

James,

Thank you for the clarity.  I often "Overbuy" when I want something.  If I think I need an item and there are 4 options, I usually buy the option that is one step up from what I think I need, so I don't have to buy it again. I like uniformity and efficiency which Festools seems to excel at.  My friends joke that I am a little OCD so the dust collection will certainly make my projects more enjoyable.  When I work for friends, I always tell them that the cleanup is up to them...I don't want to end up doing a project AND cleaning their house to my standards.  A lot of my work is done at night too, so the big tools are often saved till the weekends or first thing after I get home.  Thank you for the list.  It seems the tracksaw is being recommended by about everyone since I do own a tablesaw.  And I guess I should look into the dust collection, since it seems like a logical step and not just something "extra" to round out a collection. Plus it might save me a lot of scowls from the gf and my friends significant others.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

I am a little OCD at times too. Do yourself a favor and get a CT, the dust collection is excellent and you get a small discount when packaged with a tool. Same goes for the MFT/3 when packaged with a TS. So pay attention to the packages when you go to order if you plan on purchasing them all at once.  I would also recommend the Sys-Toolbox, it makes for a handy little storage area on the CT. If your table saw is functional, the the Festools will only compliment your current work flow. Maybe you could look at upgrading the table saw down the road.

James

 

[rljatl]

Welcome to the FOG. First off the mindset that Festool tools are only for contractors or professionals is not correct. They fit in very nicely into a hobbyist shop, trust me I am a hobbyist and have a few Festool's. I don't have a Festool only shop but the items I do have fit nicely into my shop workflow. If your shop, like mine is shared with other household items or non shop related "stuff" then the dust collection part of the Festool system will become your best friend.
Don't think of it as a table saw vs track saw debate. I have both in my shop and they compliment each other nicely, I would not want to be without either. I would however suggest that if you do get a tracksaw you pony up th extra money for the TS75. I use the TS75 a lot for ripping 8/4 stock and edges on figured 4/4 stock that will tear out on my jointer. A lot of my woodworking is done late at night after the kid goes to bed and my Festool tools are considerably quieter than all of my machines or any other hand help power tools that I have used in the past. 
Here is what I would recommend for Festools:
TS75
CT26
Extra guide rail (I like having a 1400 but would go with a 1900 if you are ripping full sheets)
MFT3 (a Few clamping elements, QWAS Dogs)
OF1400 (leave the 690 in the table)
ETS 150

Again I can't stress enough the point that Festool's work very well in the hobbyist shop and even though the quality level is "professional" don't think that they are only for contractors and pros.

Hope this helped!

James

I'm another IT guy and hobbyist woodworker.  I like James' advice the most so far. 

I sold my Jet 3hp table saw and have been thrilled with my TS75, MFT, and CT26 as replacements.  My table saw was located in the garage, but I found it a hassle to pull it out, set it up, and then constantly walk back and forth to the garage from wherever I was working just to make a cut.  With the TS75, MFT, and CT26, you can set them up right where you are working.  Much more convenient.  Qwas dogs, ripdog guides and narrow stock rip guides (ripdogs.com) are a necessity, imo.  I don't even use the standard Festool setup for the rails on the MFT.  The rip guides, narrow stock rip guides, and Qwas dogs work that good.

I also agree with those that suggest buying the tracksaw first, while keeping your existing table saw.  Then, you can always sell it and buy the Sawstop if you want.

 

[MrAlighieri]

Tablesaws - at one point, I had both a large JET with 56 inch table and an outfeed as well as a portable Bosch table saw.  I sold off the JET and forcing myself to rely on the Bosche and TS 75.  I do miss my big JET setup everytime I start a project because it was sturdy, dead straight and I amassed a lot of jigs over the years.  I like the space that I bought back but am toying with selling off my Bosch portable and going back to a smaller version of my tablesaw setup.  If you have a tablesaw you are happy with, hang on to it until you find you can do everything you need with just a Tracksaw.  Tracksaw and rail is fantastic but I have not gotten creative enough to depend on it solely.  

Gary,

I do have a tablesaw.  It's not quality, but reasonably functional.  I am looking to replace it at some point, but I am not sure what that point is yet.  When I do, I think the stopsaw contractor is my choice.  I work around carpenters at my job and they rave about it...and have all their fingers....so that helps. However, I would deal with my current saw and get a TS75 and rails if it would do most of the jobs I need that my tablesaw is incapable of (panel cutting) or impractical i.e. a single cut of a 2x4.  I guess it comes down to which comes first, new table saw or track saw.

This would be so much easier if I just won the lotto.

Thanks for the reply!

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[Kev]

30+ IT and hobby wood here ...

Space and time are your real consideration - you're buying the tools for enjoyment! I've gone Festool so I can have more "enjoy" time and less deploy, cleanup, fix, etc.

Collect them all - it's just a matter of time!

Table saw? Bandsaw? Drill Press? Thicknesser? Planer? Lathe? Spindle Moulder? ... Yes to all if you have the space and inclination - but buy quality and DO invest in DC and air purification.

Festool excels in the small / portable shop - but the full benefit isn't available in the US yet unfortunately, no CS50 / CS70 and only the router module for the CMS.

[welcome]

Kev.

 

[Jmaichel]

Tablesaws - at one point, I had both a large JET with 56 inch table and an outfeed as well as a portable Bosch table saw.  I sold off the JET and forcing myself to rely on the Bosche and TS 75.  I do miss my big JET setup everytime I start a project because it was sturdy, dead straight and I amassed a lot of jigs over the years.  I like the space that I bought back but am toying with selling off my Bosch portable and going back to a smaller version of my tablesaw setup.  If you have a tablesaw you are happy with, hang on to it until you find you can do everything you need with just a Tracksaw.  Tracksaw and rail is fantastic but I have not gotten creative enough to depend on it solely.  

Gary,

I do have a tablesaw.  It's not quality, but reasonably functional.  I am looking to replace it at some point, but I am not sure what that point is yet.  When I do, I think the stopsaw contractor is my choice.  I work around carpenters at my job and they rave about it...and have all their fingers....so that helps. However, I would deal with my current saw and get a TS75 and rails if it would do most of the jobs I need that my tablesaw is incapable of (panel cutting) or impractical i.e. a single cut of a 2x4.  I guess it comes down to which comes first, new table saw or track saw.

This would be so much easier if I just won the lotto.

Thanks for the reply!

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

Here is how I look at it. If you replace your existing working table saw with another table saw you’re not increasing your shop functionality IMHO. However, if you add a track saw you have now increased your tooling capability. Like I said before I don't personally like to approach this topic as an "either or..." argument, I think it's better to think of them as complimentary to one another. This is the kind of approach I take with my tools and my shop. After you add some Festools, work with them for a while. Your work flow and projects will guide your future purchases. Look forward to seeing what you end up with!

James

 

[MrAlighieri]

30+ IT and hobby wood here ...

Space and time are your real consideration - you're buying the tools for enjoyment! I've gone Festool so I can have more "enjoy" time and less deploy, cleanup, fix, etc.

Collect them all - it's just a matter of time!

Table saw? Bandsaw? Drill Press? Thicknesser? Planer? Lathe? Spindle Moulder? ... Yes to all if you have the space and inclination - but buy quality and DO invest in DC and air purification.

Festool excels in the small / portable shop - but the full benefit isn't available in the US yet unfortunately, no CS50 / CS70 and only the router module for the CMS.

[welcome]

Kev.

Kev,

Yeah the pack, transport, deploy, cleanup time really isn't my favorite parts, so I think the Festool system makes more and more sense.  The systainers is what brought me here.  Then as I read more and watched the promo vids, I was really impressed.  Almost as impressed as I was with the prices.  Festools are proud of their stuff and apparently rightfully so.  I will ad the Dust collection to my calculus as well.  It does seem pretty slick from what I have seen.  I use a vacuum on my router table and I have to admit, I use it more now because I don't have to sweep the shop 4 times to get it clean. I will probably own all of the tools Festools makes eventually, but without a lotto win it will have to come in time.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

P.S. I say with all the IT guys here, we start a business... we could fix your network and build your office furniture all at once.

 

[MrAlighieri]

Here is how I look at it. If you replace your existing working table saw with another table saw you’re not increasing your shop functionality IMHO. However, if you add a track saw you have now increased your tooling capability. Like I said before I don't personally like to approach this topic as an "either or..." argument, I think it's better to think of them as complimentary to one another. This is the kind of approach I take with my tools and my shop. After you add some Festools, work with them for a while. Your work flow and projects will guide your future purchases. Look forward to seeing what you end up with!

James

James,

I agree with you.  After thinking about it and reading the advice everyone has given, I think I am going to pick up a TS75 and rails first, probably the CT26 or Carvex 420 next.  Seems the most logical way for me to go.  Then I will probably get a good tablesaw and work on sanders and jointers after that.

Thanks so much for your input.  It has been really helpful.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[gdjenkins10]

Advice on dust extractors - I had both a Midi and a CT 36.  The midi was great for transporting in my truck but I filled it up quickly.  Since they all have the same suction power but different capacity  for dust, I recently sold my Midi and went to another CT36 so I could use the same size bags across both units.  When you get to point of your 2nd or 3rd dust extractor, choose the capacity you want to standardize to or be prepared for different size supplies and possibly attachments.  I found the 48 to be to big for my purposes even thou I make a lot of dust.  I think the 36 will still fit in my truck bed fully assembled, not tried it since purchasing 2nd unit. 1st unit is stuffed behind MFT/3 

 

[jsheldon]

Another IT guy here; have been a software developer for almost 30 years. So why are all of these IT guys on this forum?

One of the things that really attracts me to woodworking is the longevity of what I build. None of the software applications I design will still be in use 20 years from now - they will have been replaced long before then. The things I build using wood will have a much greater lifespan.

Another factor is that I am always building software to somebody else's requirements. There is some room for creativity and elegant solutions to problems, but not a great deal. When I embark on a new woodworking project, it's for me (or a relative, a friend, etc) so the work itself is more satisfying just because of the target audience.

Yet another factor is that the software I build is limited by practicality; there are always more project requests than my team can possibly produce, so when something we're developing is "good enough", we have to leave it at that and move on to the next thing. Woodworking as a hobby is NEVER limited by practicality - I can go as overboard on a project as my budget, available time, and abilities will allow.

But why Festool? Because of my day job (that too often extends beyond 40 hours a week), I have limited time in the shop. I want that limited time to be spent productively and enjoyably; I don't want to get frustrated with an inferior tool that doesn't even do one thing well. I'm far enough along in my career that I have some discretionary income to buy high quality tools. In the end, better tools mean I can spend more time using the tool to build something and less time fighting the tool, adjusting the tool, working around the limitations of the tool, etc.

When I was younger (junior high and high school), I worked for my dad in the workshop behind his antique shop, primarily refinishing furniture, but he taught me some basic woodworking skills so I could help with some of the easier repair work. Because we lived off the income from the antique shop plus my dad's Air Force retirement (enlisted, so that wasn't a lot), he didn't have a great deal of money to spend on tools, so they were often bought second-hand with the occasional shiny new tool from Sears. As a result, I spent a lot of time fighting the tools instead of using them.

Ok, back to the topic.

I don't have a Festool track saw (yet!), but my suggestion is to keep the table saw and upgrade it when budget/needs dictate. I tend to use my table saw for a lot of cuts on smaller pieces (including ripping thin pieces) that I don't think would be feasible with a track saw.

Like you, I have a PC 690 router, but it is pretty much permanently mounted in my router table. It is way too much of a pain to remove it, attach the plunge base, then put it back in the router table. Not to mention it is not equipped for dust collection (other than my make-shift under-the-table shroud and hole in the fence). So a router will be my next Festool purchase.

Don't neglect dust collection! The first Festool item I bought was a CT-26 and it is the most frequently used tool in my shop. I just wish I had taken advantage of one of the package deals.

-- Joe Sheldon