surprise with TDK12 and centrotec set

Redfox

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
182
Hi all,
Well, I'm new to this forum, so it's a pitty that I'll go on posting the following. But anyway I'll ask for your opninion.
I just bought the "old" TDK12 and the centrotec2009 (advertised 2008), but that's okay, as a set together with the angle and off-set chucks. It was advertised as a really really cheap deal locally to me, and I waited in a long que to get it. Finally me and another customer did. Most other people went for the other yellow brand's offerings. I wanted the TDK12 offer, and get on working with my oncoming kitchen, veranda etc.
To make a long story short, the special chucks were not in the systainer. I am aware that the content varies, as to price, but in was clearly stated in the brochure, that they come with the set. There's a disclaimer to this brochure though. But on the Festool stand, there was another printed sign, that also said the same chucks were included.
When the other customer and I inspected the boxes, we found those chucks to be missing. We spoke to the the shop manager, and he said he could do nothing, as it was a mistake. We spoke to the Festool rep, and he went talking to the shop, and came back offering us those chucks for a further price, though cheap. All right, we thought, and bought it. Nice of Festool Denmark to be doing so, and help us out, though it should have been she shop delivering us the parts.
When I came home, I thought more was missing, as the picture of the centrotec 2009 bow varies to mine. Hmm, I thought and became a little angry. I therefore wrote a complaint to Festool Denmark, asking for the parts, and that I felt cheated.
So now, I recieved an email from the Festool rep, stating that I am stupid, don't have enough money to buy Festool tools, and therefore I am trying to cheat them to deliver me some free parts. Furthermore he writes that he feel sorry, that I don't understand how this system functions, just like buying a car, and that he wishes me to buy something cheaper and of another brand.
I gave up on the thought of replying.
I therefore wrote to Festool Germany, and asked for their view on the matter.
I have clearly stated to Festool Germany, that I am not interested in cheating anyone, nor do I expect it to rain down with excuses and parts, but I do not want to be treated like that. It's a matter of principle.
So now I await their answer.
I have other Festool machines like a CTL mini, two sanders and a jigsaw and various other parts. I am a private user, and have from the start been very satisfied with my tools indeed, which I have stated to both Festool Denmark and Germany.
i don't mind paying for the Festool quality, but they should deliver what they advertise, or claim/display is in the box, or at least state it clearly, that their pictures does not reflect what's in the boxes.
Enough of that.

So, my question to you is the following:
Am I completely wrong in telling Festool Denmark about it, and they should deliver the missing parts?
Should I expect that language from a professional company like Festool? (have never before had the need for service or complaints). I am a little baffeled to say the least.

Finally I am not at all wanting to put Festool down, but I am just so surprised, that I felt the need to ask you people about it. Actually I am overly satisfied about my Festool's in general. The other dealership I buy from, also locally, are extremely nice and very talkative and helpfull.
Cheers,
Redfox.
 
Redfox,

First let me welcome you to the FOG.  We hope to see you here more!

You have a potential issue with that dealer and should continue to try to get that rectified by providing proof of your claims to both the dealer and others further up the food chain.  Now of course, on the other hand the counterclaim might be that you did receive everything.

I don't think that your complaint is with Festool - it is with the dealer your purchased from at a very cheap price.

 
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply.
I agree to some extent, in the way that Festool is the one making the sets content, and the dealer is the one selling it. I suppose it was left overs from moving over to the newer 12+3, which I really don't need, as the TDK can do the same.
I expect an answer from the dealer as well, as Festool Denmark sent my first email to the dealer as well (to the general sales executive, as it's a big company.

Yes, I hope to pass on some more positive posts in the future.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
I think that any Festool rep who accuses a customer of being too poor and trying to cheat them out of tools sounds like he's being rude.

That said, maybe the European sales reps aren't as nice as they are here in the states, or something else is awry
 
Redfox

First, welcome to the FOG.  I know from dealing with reps in the UK that it would seem that the US gets better service than us, having said that my dealer has been superb.  As always, there is 2 sides to every story but from what you have said it seems your rep was way out of line with what he said & should be repremanded for it.

As you know the drills come as a bare set or full set with all the chucks & i feel that should have been up to the shop that sold you the drill to rectify.  I have the 09 set & like you was a bit disappointed with the amount of contents.  Everything that is in there is top notch but on the bottom tray there is 2 large compartments that is empty.  Not what i was expecting from a set of this price, but i did get it at a good discount so in that respect i am happy with it.

I hope you get some sort of apology from the rep in question & i would suggest buying further Festools from another shop.

Cheers, Woodguy.
 
I am appalled that Festool has not insisted the dealer make things right with you, or lose his franchise.
 
There have been quite a lot of complaints from UK and other European customers about the contents of the Centrotec sets. The most common complaint seems to be that the Systainer didn't contain what the buyer thought it would contain.

I suggest this might be for three reasons:

- There have been several versions of the Centrotec systainer, and the contents can very widely between them.

- If is rather difficult for a prospective purchaser to find out the exact contents of these Systainers. Some dealers give a partial list, but it's often rather vague.

- The are very few detailed photographs of the contents, and the stock photos are usually pretty small.

In the case of the Centrotec09 set, the stock photo is not only small but in my opinion it is misleading. Here's a typical photo of the inside (remember, the 09 set comes in an "attic" Systainer, so there are also some pieces stored in the lid organiser which aren't shown here)

centrotec09.jpg


Look at the base tray. It all looks nicely packed with "stuff", but here is an extract from the high-resolution image I found at http://tinyurl.com/y882ycr

[attachimg=#]

It now turns out that several sections of the bottom tray have been filled with pictures of ironmongery! They show what you could put in the Systainer - not what is actually in it!

It's therefore not surprising that many buyers are disappointed if it is so difficult to find an exact list of what's in the box, and they only have small (and perhaps misleading) photos to go on.

If or when the Centrotec Systainers comes to the North American market, I hope that Festool USA will provide an itemised list of everything in the box, plus some detailed photos - not like the one that is shown above.

In the meantime, here are some threads which have detailed photos and/or lists of contents, which might help purchasers:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/sys-centrotec-07/
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/centronic-bit-sets-europe/
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/mft3-2657/msg28599/#msg28599

Forrest
 
Forrest Anderson said:
.....If or when the Centrotec Systainers comes to the North American market, I hope that Festool USA will provide an itemised list of everything in the box, plus some detailed photos - not like the one that is shown above.....

Forrest

Forrest, if I remember correctly, the last time we had a Centrotec set here in the States the contents were itemized so I might expect for Festool USA to do the same in the future. 
 
Hi all,
Thank you for the replies.
I feel I should mention, that I was told by the Festool rep, that there's room for stuff in the lower compartments. But the cardboard insert, as it showed up to be, is completely different from the one shown here in a magnified version. As I took the liberty to look at the internet for a pic that could show what's in the box, I saw a different content, than in my box. This together with the missing chucks made it for me. Therefore I wrote to Festool Denmark, and got the very rude reply back, to my rather big surprise.

In a retrospect perspective, I admit, that maybe I could just have contacted another Festool dealer, but this dealer is very big here in Denmark, and I have dealt with them for around 10 years, and never had any probs before.

The core is in my oppinion twofold: The dealer should look carefully into the sets before advertising it's content. It's not that hard really. And correct the error they made without extra payment.
Secondly, Festool must by now have become aware, that their advertising of room for your own extra's is at best a little clumsy. No way I could see that it just another version of the cardboard manifestation.

Therefore I feel that Festool should correct that to be more clear.
Since I had the reply that Festool do not produce and sell folding rulers etc, that may not be true, as I have seen Festool folding rulers for example, advertised for sale on the internet. I am sure some of you out there already got it.

Finally I feel that there's no room for personal expressions by a salesperson/rep, to customers private life or the like.

I'll report back if or when I have got a reply from both the store and Festool themselves.

I may add that I have nothing against either.

If anyone out there have had similar experiences, then it may be usefull to me, to help cast a little light on the matter.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
Hi EcoFurniture,
That in my eyes, surely looks to be Festool thingies, which could be in the box... Surely I thought that. I am sure, I am not the only one.
Thanks for clearing up this.
The suggestion would then be like this:

"Dear customer, we have  made the 2009 edition of the already well packed centrotec box even better, by moving some often used parts to a top lid, and therefore made space for adding your own commonly used extras, We suggests a folding ruler etc..."

This I feel, would better indicate the ability and the content of the centrotec 2009 edition set.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
Hi all,
I just recieved a call from Festool Germany, from a very friendly man who excused the Danish Festool's rep odd language, and would look into the matter.
I'll follow up.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
I am always amazed at the service and follow-up issues some have in European countries. Just does not make sense to me as here in the US we have such fantastic support and follow-up from the staff in Indiana. Please do follow-up as will be interested how Festool Germany approaches this. Have to believe they take customer support very seriously but issues are at more local levels. Will see.
 
Redfox,

Were there different prices for the TDK12?  When I bought my C12 they came with different configurations.  The one I bought was the cheapest and came with the smaller battery(1.3amh) and only came with 2 chucks: the drill attachment and the bit holder.
 
Hi Shawn,

Yes, I believe Festool Germany take things serioulsy and professionally.

No, the limited offer on this was the TDK12 with two 3,0Ah NiMh batteries, the centrotec chuck, 1 drillbit, 1 bit, 1 bitholder, 1 hexkey, 1 systainer, 1 charger, 1 chuck for ordinary drilling etc, 1 offset chuch and 1 angular chuck, the instruction, registration etc papers, together with 1 2008 edition Centrotec systainer set, which they didn't have, so everyone got a 2009 edition, with the cardboard pieces  [wink]

There were no other models, configurations etc, and it was exactly what they had advertised. Because of the disclaimer, I just recieved an email from the dealer management, in which they congratulate me with my new tools, but also write, that they cannot include the advertised two special chucks. As I've said, on the Festool area of the rather huge shop, there was an A4 note on top of the stack of sets, which stated the content as I have described, incl. the two special shucks. The other customer and I were going spcifically for this offer, because of the two special chucks.
Unfortunately I did not bring a camera to take a photo of that A4 sized note on the stand, as I didn't  forsee that should ever bee needed, but I do have a copy of the original adverised brochure on printed paper on my desk, the one with the disclaimer.

The price was therefore only one, but I had to pay an extra amount plus vat, to get the special chucks, and I did, because I need those to take good use of the drill, otherwise I'll use one of my other quality tools. The nice thing about the Festool is exactly weight, and the special chucks, plus the ability to turn real slowly, to avoid breaking stuff, imho at least.

At the stand, as well as in the brochure were other Festool campaigns, like a nice offer on the TS55EBQ with a systainer set of clamps, angletool etc, together with a 1,4m guide rail, an offer for a CT with a cleaning set etc.

Btw. if thee had been an offer to choose between the C12 and the TDk, I would have got the C12 as it's nicer to hold, but that is not to say the TSK is bad in any way, the C12 is just smarter balanced and even more handy in my eyes.

I am a private user, and as I don't need the TS for the moment, I'll hold on that, but it surely cuts nicely, and I'll give it a thought over the summer, before making new floors etc. For the monent I have 5 Festool tools, plus a variety of abrasives, extra green tubes, systainers etc. Definately something I'll expand.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
Redfox

Do you know what the "2 special chucks" were ?  I would have thought they were the "eccentric chuck" & the "angled chuck" but from the description you have given you received them.  The only other chuck i know off is the "drywall chuck" which in the UK you have to buy separately.

Are there more chucks i don't know about ???

Cheers, Woodguy
 
Hi Woodguy,
Yeps, they are the ones. The DD-ES and the DD-AS that were missing (mentioned like that in the 10-11 catalogue). No, I did not recieve them, that's the whole point, as they were said to be included (as a full set). I will have to buy that drywall chuch asap as well. That one come in handy!

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
Personally, I would have never handed over my money before I had inspected the contents myself. I do this with all expensive stuff I buy. As for power tools, I don't buy one machine before I have had it running in my own hand.

I also don't buy anything just because it is a nice deal. I always do my research before I buy something. I find impulse buying a dangerous thing, because disappointment is always right around the corner and I've learned a long time ago not to do it anymore. For instance, if I wanted a centrotec set I would have checked which one was the best value for the money, and I would have never been content with the 2009 set, especially if the much better 2008 set was promised.
 
Waited all day, no answer from Festool, though they said they would.
Hmm, I'll better be a little more paitient.

Cheers and happy Easter,
Redfox.
 
Hi all,
Just recieved this answer from the Swedish office of Festool:

-----
"Thank you for your e-mail.
First of all, do I apologize for that my answer arrives first today
due to an emergency trip yesterday. Secondly, that you have
received a non polite answer on e-mail from a Festool representative.  

I can see from your pictures, that there was a mistake from the dealer
showing pictures on DD-AS and the DD-ES, when they were not included
in the package but, the price you have received for TDK 12 incl. a
Centrotec Systainer is EXTREAMLY GOOD.

For all Festool machines is the plastic inlay prepared for several opportunities
for accessories to be place there. The machines are also sold in different
versions with and without accessories so you can be sure, no one has been taking
anything out from this Systainer, neither Festool or Carl Ras.

The Centrotec Systainer has been sold to the market as a campaign product for
several years now and every year is there a new version with different content
meaning, the article that were in the version 2008 is not the same as 2009 and
will not be the same in the version 2010, coming in autumn. In the version 2009
were there place in the plastic inlay for own personal accessories and the paper
photo was just an example of what could be place there individually from person
to person and again, no one has been taking anything out from this Systainer,
neither Festool or Carl Ras.

The only mistake I can see in this matter regarding products is as I mentioned
above, that the dealer was showing a pictures on DD-AS and the DD-ES, when
they were not included in the package. This is a case between you as buyer
and the dealer as seller.

I hope that you are taking the opportunity to register all your new Festool purchase
on machines at the TfP-Club were you receive even more added value to your Festool
products.
Furthermore do I wish you a nice Easter and a nice trip abroad.
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards

Kenneth Henriksson"
-----

So basically I got an appology for the rude language, which is just fine, and accepted.
Secondly I still paid an extra price, though relatvely small, to get the originally advertised chucks. I feel that I should mention, that on the stand were another sign stating the further content, which were missing in reality, not mentioned in Festools answer. Errors do happen, and I think it's up to the dealer to correct this one, as it was he who had made the mistake. Neither is it me as a private customer, who decides on how the price should be for an item on sale. I don't care if it is high or small, it's a matter of principle.
Since I paid a rather small price for the set in total, I'll leave it here, and go use it instead.
If I were the shop manager, I would have shown some conduite, and ensured a satisfied customer in the future. I cannot at all recommend the Danish dealer "Carlras", as they do not stand up to their word. Being a huge dealer here in Denmark, one may tend to think they are just too big, and don't care about ordinary private customers. If I had represented a big construction company or the like, surely this would have been answered differently. I will therefore make my future tool-shopping at another local small dealer, who may not have all on the shelves, but he walks on his fingers to get a completely satisfied customer. Lesson learned.
Regarding the content of any centrotec set it is my oppinion, that Festool should think about making the content and intended use of the set's empty cavites more clear for future customers, so noone will be in doubt. After all, that's what appears to be the case not only for me, but also for other customers. Just a friendly comment.
The remark from the Danish festool rep, that Festool does not sell folded rulers etc. I regard as a matter of ignorance, not knowing what they sell, as it's been demonstrated here, that they do. I've asked another local dealer about it, and they will try to get me one, to prove it. Likewise the nice level.
Thanks to Festool Germany/Sweden for looking into matters, and trying to straighten it out.
My intention on this thread was not to put down anyone, and I hope that it is hopefully clear. But ultimately I as a customer, should also be honnest about the experience, and therefore I have now remarked about the dealer.

On a secondary note, I can mention, that I have just finished rebuilding our bathroom, incl. making a new concrete floor, reshaping walls, cieling, new drainsystem, tiles, doorframe, etc, and here the sanders and the jigsaw came in very handy. Initially I sanded in hand (old habit from prepping motorcycletanks and fairings for painting), then got the ETS125EQ and the ETS400EQ with filterbags, then connected them to another vac, but ultimately got the CTL Mini, which is a real gem to use. After that I went out and got the aforementioned tdk12 etc. I have plenty of other tools, but the Festools are for sure very good in each of their category. Hammerdrilling chissleing etc I do with 230Volt blue machines from Bosch like e.g. the 2-26dfr. After having bought some festools, I find some og the other machines sitting at the shelves in the mancave  [big grin]. Oh, there's plenty of work commin' up this summer.

Thank you all for comments. I am happy with (all) my tools, and rest asure that I put it to good use.
Happy Easter anyone! [big grin]

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
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