Talk me out of trading in my TS55 for an HK

[Sourwould]

I know there's another similar thread currently, but I'm looking to specially compare corded models and the TS55/MFT combo vs the spring loaded rails.

Ok, so I've been using the TS55 a lot for the past couple months. I've been considering getting an MFT, pretty much just for crosscutting and squaring up. I find the saw very awkward for both operations. I think this is in part because of the fact that I work on saw horses and in part because of the horrible clear splitter guard (I've ordered black splinter guard, but I'm waiting for the clear one to get worn out). I find the ts 55 especially awkward for crosscutting real lumber, like a deck board.

So my thought is that the HK 55 may do everything that the TS/MFT combo does (so far as cutting operations) but is more portable. Not sure if this is accurate, since I've never used an MFT or HK.

Seems like the main issues are:

1. Dust collection is worse on the HK. I don't mind saw dust, but everyone in my area is in looooove with Hardie siding. Is the dust collection from the HK good enough to use with Hardie or mirtec without getting a nosebleed?

I'm getting ready to do a big Hardie job and am rigging up a cut table for the TS55 just so I can have the dust collection.

2. The plunge hinge works the opposite way. I'm not really sure what this effects. Might be nice that it plunges like a regular skilsaw?

3. Won't bevel cut a 2x. I guess neither will, and I'm not sure that I need it. I've seen guys on here say this say is for framing (I wouldn't use it for framing), seems like a siding/decking/trim saw. I think the hk will fit a 6-1/2 blade?

I think the cost of setting up the HK and selling the TS would be about the same as getting an MFT. So the question is, does the HK do everything the TS does, plus the ability to use the spring loaded rails?

 

[Birdhunter]

In reading what you want the saw to do, I would buy a nice compound miter saw you do not mind using on a job site.

I have a dual MFT and a TS55 plus some extra rails. I've looked at the HK and backed away as I have no use for what is a very nice framing saw.

The MFT/TS55 combination is excellent for very precise work and the TS55 on a rail is great for breaking down plywood.

I think you would be disappointed with the MFT on a job site unless the work was all indoors and on a flat surface.

 

[Michael Kellough]

HK is great for cross-cutting sticks but can also do some ripping with regular rails.
TS is great for longer cuts on panels and the best for plunge pocket cuts (it’s a plunge cut saw). HK is very awkward at plunge cuts.

 

[RKA]

It does sound like the HK would serve you better if siding and decking is your primary use.  You can bring the saw (and rail) right to the wood (or hardi) rather than wrestling the lumber over to your cutting station and making sure it's adequately supported. 

The dust collection...surprisingly good.  For wood, I would be inclined to accept it, for hardi, I think I would still be wearing a respirator to be on the safe side. 

You will lose a little accuracy with the HK rail.  I wouldn't use them for cabinet work, I would find some other way to square the rail to your work piece (or use an MFT).  But for your purposes, 1mm out on a 90 degree cut across a 2x10 is not something you would be concerned with. 

 

[chrisrosenb]

Dust collection is not as good on the HK.
The HK works great for cutting lumber with or without the spring rails.
The TS55 & rails work very well for cutting panels or straight lining lumber. The HK will do this, but it is not as safe as the TS55.
The plunge does not work well on the HK.
I recently made a vinyl siding cut off jig for gable ends. I used it with a TS55 & guide rail. It worked out great & it was a lot safer than using the HK.

 

[Brice Burrell]

......I think the cost of setting up the HK and selling the TS would be about the same as getting an MFT. So the question is, does the HK do everything the TS does, plus the ability to use the spring loaded rails?

The short answer is yes, but with a rather big caveat.  These are two saws that excel at different things.  The TS saw excels at cutting sheet goods, and works pretty well for cross cutting with the MFT.  The HK saw is really good at cross cutting when bringing the saw to the material is better than bringing the material to the (miter) saw. 

You already have a TS saw so you know its strengths and weaknesses (although to get the most out of the TS you really do need a good cross cut setup like the MFT).  The HK saw is great at what it does well, but...it doesn't cut sheet goods anywhere near as gracefully as the TS saw, and its not a great general purpose circular saw off the rail (especially if you're used to a wormdrive saw).  The issue with the HK saw is the blade guard/fixed base similar to what regular circular saws have.  This just doesn't work well on the regular rails, and it makes using the regular rails somewhat awkward.  You have to set the HK saw to its plunge mode, then retract the blade guard, and carefully put the saw on the rail making sure you have on the rail correctly before you can make the cut.  Its way easier to just drop the TS saw on the rail and cut. 

I think the question for you is are you better served with a saw that is better suited for cabinetry/sheet goods, or general construction?  If you see yourself needing to make cross cuts in lumber far more than you ever need to process sheet goods then the HK is the tool you want.  I'll add this, there is a lot of overlap with the HK and a miter saw/regular circular saw.  It might be a better value to keep the TS saw for your tracksaw needs and use your miter saw and circular saw for construction (assuming you already have these tools).         

 

[Cheese]

Dust collection is worse on the HK. I don't mind saw dust, but everyone in my area is in looooove with Hardie siding. Is the dust collection from the HK good enough to use with Hardie or mirtec without getting a nosebleed?

As far as dust collection goes, I've been using an HKC on a Guide Rail to cut cement board hooked up to a MIDI on high. It works well, not much dust escapes considering the blade is an open design. All the cuts are being made outdoors.

 

[Sourwould]

What makes the hk less safe on regular rails? Is it the way it plunges or issues with the guard? I looked at a picture of the saw again, it doesn't look like there's any catch to pull the guard back.

The HK does not look like it would make a good saw off the rail, for me at least. I'm a blade watcher, so having the blade so enclosed is a negative. I'm sure it's that way for dust collection.

I do have regular skilsaws and a sliding miter saw, both Makita. I don't like siding or decking with a miter saw (personal problem), plus the dust collection sucks. My world is all centered around the skilsaw, I think it's because I started my carpentry life on a framing crew. Dust collection is non existent on the saw I prefer. So using the TS for siding still involves setting up a cut station to go back and forth from. On the other hand, with the hk you are still tethered to the vacuum, so maybe it's the same thing.

If I didn't mind being exposed to Hardie/mirtec/pt/plastic dust, I'd use my regular saw for nearly everything (which is what I do now). I got the TS55 to work on cabinet and furniture projects (which, I admit, is aspirational work), but I'm seeing it more and more as a good way to not feel like I've been poisoning myself all day (plus all those perfect cuts sure look nice).

If the HK does not work well with the regular tracks, that's a big negative for me.

 

[Brice Burrell]

What makes the hk less safe on regular rails? Is it the way it plunges or issues with the guard? I looked at a picture of the saw again, it doesn't look like there's any catch to pull the guard back.

It's both the blade guard and the way the saw plunges.  There is a lever that you can push to retract the blade guard but I find it a bit awkward to use with the saw on the rail. 

The HK does not look like it would make a good saw off the rail, for me at least. I'm a blade watcher, so having the blade so enclosed is a negative. I'm sure it's that way for dust collection.

Vision of the blade is not great but it's okay.  The bigger issue for me in the lack of a base on the blade side.  If you want to trim off a small amount of material you have to use the saw on the "wrong" side of the cut.

I do have regular skilsaws and a sliding miter saw, both Makita. I don't like siding or decking with a miter saw (personal problem), plus the dust collection sucks. My world is all centered around the skilsaw, I think it's because I started my carpentry life on a framing crew. Dust collection is non existent on the saw I prefer. So using the TS for siding still involves setting up a cut station to go back and forth from. On the other hand, with the hk you are still tethered to the vacuum, so maybe it's the same thing.

I very rarely ever hook up my vac to the HK saw, I use the dust bag and it works reasonably well whenever I want some dust collection.  With the vac attacked you really cut down on the speed and convenience of the HK saw.  That said, I'd gladly use the vac for Hardie.

If the HK does not work well with the regular tracks, that's a big negative for me.

 

I have the luxury of owning both the TS55 and HKC55 so I have the best of both worlds.  From that perspective, I just don't like using the HK saw on the regular rails if I can't avoid it.  Still, its workable, but not real graceful.  Since you have a TS saw and you know how easy they are to use on the rail,  I'm pretty sure you'll find using the HK on the regular rails a bit annoying.  My advice would be to buy the HK and use the 30 day return period to decide what you want to do.  Good luck.   

 

[Michael Kellough]

Great advice from Brice!  Good to see you again!

 

[demographic]

About the only thing to watch out for when using a HK on standard rails is to make sure the blade has stopped before you lift it off the rail, otherwise it can chew the rail up. Really not rocket surgery.

Once you work that out its dead easy.

If you are cutting ply sheets on sawstools, make sure theres a couple of 8' lengths of 2x2 on the stools with maybe 4 lengths at about 4' long going across the long ones.

That gives it good support for the material being cut.

 

[mrboult]

Personally I much prefer my TS55 to my HKC. Way more power (the HK is prob better than HKC in this though) and the quality of the cut is better with a lot less tear out. I don’t find using it on the regular rails a problem (not talking plunging here, that is a little less refined) as I just slide it on at the beginning of the rail so the rail pushes the guard out of the way on its own. There is also a lever to retract the guard but it’s in the inside of the saw, by the handle, not on the blade guard it’s self.

If cross cutting timbers was a big reason to own the saw, then the HK series obviously wins. But for most everything else I prefer the TS.

 

[Sourwould]

Thanks for the detailed advice Brice! Both would be great, but I can't justify the expense.

Demographic,

Right now I'm using a piece of zip-r sheathing. I'm not sure if they have it in the UK. Its just a sheet of OSB with foam insulation bonded to the back side.

MR B,

This is how I use my TS currently. I had a few incidences of back kick back when I first got the saw and now I'm not really comfortable plunge cutting. I really can't think of a time I've needed a really beautiful plunge cut. I just do that with a regular skilsaw.

This thread has not convinced me that I don't want an HK, but hasn't really convinced me that it's worth trading in. haha. I bought a short Makita rail reeeeal cheap and I think I might spend some time trying to fab together a decent crosscut jig.

 

[demographic]

I've never used that Zip stuff but would say the crosscut rails (I have the one that does the 420mm cut)  are much simpler to use and more versatile than fabricobbled ones.

Sorry if I sound like one of the Festool fanbois who hasn't ever used another saw, I'm just a subcontractor carpenter who has had a HKC for a few years and used it extensively. Ive used pretty much everything else out there and the only one close is the Mafell which costs an even bigger fortune.

Everyone Ive worked with and has had a go with my HKC has said they want one, these are experienced carpenters who don't like spending money.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Thanks for the detailed advice Brice! Both would be great, but I can't justify the expense.

I understand not being able to justify owning both.  If you can afford to lay out the money for the HK and use the 30 days to see if it works for you then you won't have gotten rid of your TS in the event of the HK not work out.  If you do decide to try out an HK saw please wait until you have a job where you can really put it to work.  Yeah, you can test the saw at home for an hour and get a fairly good idea of how it will work, but nothing beats actually using it on a real job.

This thread has not convinced me that I don't want an HK, but hasn't really convinced me that it's worth trading in. haha. I bought a short Makita rail reeeeal cheap and I think I might spend some time trying to fab together a decent crosscut jig.

If I might offer some advice, please be careful crosscutting with the TS and short piece of rail, even with a jig.  The TS saws can kickback pretty easily with that kind of setup.  The HK saw being attacked to the rail is not only miles ahead in safety, its also so much faster than crosscutting with the TS saw. 

 

[mrboult]

The kick back from the TS saws is more related to the non-locking, constantly sprung, plunge  mechanism. . The HK is better in this regard because the saw locks at the depth of cut you set. Rather than the FSK rail being the magical component. Not that the FSK rail doesn’t make the whole thing a lot easier.

The TS saws kick back due to one of two things. . Plunging too fast so the saw can not physically remove the material quick enough, binds and send the saw backwards. Or the saw/rail is allowed to move ever so slightly off axis, binds and kicks backwards. .
As the plunge mech on the TS is “always active’ the saw kicks up as well as back and that is why it can be harder to control than a regular circ saw. Ever tried using the TS with no rail or parallel guide? Don’t do it!

The HK without a guide or fence is still a usable saw. The TS is useless without.

 

[Sourwould]

Thanks for the detailed advice Brice! Both would be great, but I can't justify the expense.

I understand not being able to justify owning both.  If you can afford to lay out the money for the HK and use the 30 days to see if it works for you then you won't have gotten rid of your TS in the event of the HK not work out.  If you do decide to try out an HK saw please wait until you have a job where you can really put it to work.  Yeah, you can test the saw at home for an hour and get a fairly good idea of how it will work, but nothing beats actually using it on a real job.

This thread has not convinced me that I don't want an HK, but hasn't really convinced me that it's worth trading in. haha. I bought a short Makita rail reeeeal cheap and I think I might spend some time trying to fab together a decent crosscut jig.

If I might offer some advice, please be careful crosscutting with the TS and short piece of rail, even with a jig.  The TS saws can kickback pretty easily with that kind of setup.  The HK saw being attacked to the rail is not only miles ahead in safety, its also so much faster than crosscutting with the TS saw.

I'm planning to screw the rail to a piece of TJI or use a piece of OSB rim or advantech with a fence on either side of the material. For miters, I'm thinking I could screw one side of the track down through the top channel and use that as a pivot point with a clamp at the other end. The rail is 39" and I don't think I'm ready to cut it yet. I'd like to set it up to gang cut 3-4 pieces of siding.

I was reading a review of the HK and didn't even think about how nice it would be to use on stringers. Might have a big deck project coming up with 5/4x6 and may try and find a used HK if I get it. I do a lot of T&G decks currently, not a lot of cuts with that.

 

[mlindholm]

As the plunge mech on the TS is “always active’ the saw kicks up as well as back and that is why it can be harder to control than a regular circ saw. Ever tried using the TS with no rail or parallel guide? Don’t do it!

I'll admit to having tried that.  I have the Dewalt FlexVolt tracksaw, but it's a similar issue with fighting the spring mechanism.  I was buying some 2x4s, and figured it would be sufficient to use to cut them to fit in a small car.  It's a circular saw, right? Why wouldn't it work?

Well, poorly, since as noted, you're pushing it down, while also trying to stay on-path.  I was using a framing square as a cut guide, so I did at least have something to push against to keep the cut straight'ish.

MR B,

This is how I use my TS currently. I had a few incidences of back kick back when I first got the saw and now I'm not really comfortable plunge cutting. I really can't think of a time I've needed a really beautiful plunge cut. I just do that with a regular skilsaw.

This thread has not convinced me that I don't want an HK, but hasn't really convinced me that it's worth trading in. haha. I bought a short Makita rail reeeeal cheap and I think I might spend some time trying to fab together a decent crosscut jig.

You're actually halfway towards my suggestion there.  I started with a 60" rail (Dewalt, hence not 55"), got an FS 800 for more convenient crosscuts, and recently an FS 1800, to use with the FS800 for full 8' sheet rips.  I'm still interested in one of the *really* short pieces, to use with a TSO Products GRS-16.  I use it with the FS800, but even that can be a bit awkward for short,

 

[Sourwould]

I think the rail square looks like it would only work well with sheet goods.

It would be nice if something was available like the saw guides used in Japan. I think the key is how it indexes forward and down, with a handle to get a good purchase.

 

[demographic]

I think the rail square looks like it would only work well with sheet goods.

It would be nice if something was available like the saw guides used in Japan. I think the key is how it indexes forward and down, with a handle to get a good purchase.

Ive used the rail on floor joists more times than I can remember, on decking where I often cut four 100mm decking boards at a time and even on big oak frames where I've cut 50mm deep all the way round then finished the cut off with a handsaw (the oak was 250x200mm)