The BBC on Apple's Broken Promises

[wow]

Another book that might interest you is "The Macintosh Way" by Guy Kawasaki. I have a copy I'd be happy to give you, but you'd have to pay for postage. Given that you are on the wrong side of the water [wink] it might cost more than the book is worth?

Of course, I could always autograph it for you, thereby affecting it's perceived value. I'll leave it up to you to decide what it would do to the value?

[scared]

 

[andy5405]

Another book that might interest you is "The Macintosh Way" by Guy Kawasaki. I have a copy I'd be happy to give you, but you'd have to pay for postage. Given that you are on the wrong side of the water [wink] it might cost more than the book is worth?

Of course, I could always autograph it for you, thereby affecting it's perceived value. I'll leave it up to you to decide what it would do to the value?

[scared]

Well I could sell my Steve Jobs biography after I have read it to my Apple fanatic nephew. That would go some way towards the purchase of a new book though he is quite sharp for a 15 year old and I think he would drive a very hard bargain. The autograph would definitely raise the value, we were both suitably impressed! I did warm to Guy Kawasaki in the documentary and I will check it out on Amazon.

I should add that I was purchasing on Amazon anyway using some Xmas vouchers. The Steve Jobs book is only one of 15, all the others are non techie and unrelated. However it is still a big jump for me but I should provide balance by saying that I still feel that Apple could be doing more with their ethical/environmental policies. They might be leading their competitors by a smallish margin in this area but I would like to see them get as far ahead with this as their products have at times.

All in all I've enjoyed the thread and learnt a lot over Xmas. I had no idea there was a gang culture amongst Festool users and I had never thought of pimping my CT26! I should also add that it has filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge of the desktop computer evolution and changed some of my views. It seems if it had happened under exam conditions everyone would have been expelled as everyone copied everyone at some point.

 

[semenza]

....
It is the fact that IBM and Gates made their products cheap that had the biggest contribution to shaping the information age. Yes they ripped off a lot of Apple ideas in doing it but I guess Henry Ford copied somebody but he had the vision to bring his product to a mass market and influenced far more people than Rolls Royce ever could.

Funny you mention Ford, yes he changed the world and used that success and influence for some despicable things, but that doesn't change the fact he changed the world  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/

I missed reading the link you posted though I was aware of his links with the Nazi Party. I didn't realise how deep rooted his feelings were and how his perceived position in society must have influenced many gullible or unsophisticated thinkers. His mass market vision stands but I have certainly seen him in a different light.

I have also as a result of this thread just purchased the Karen Blumenthal biography of Steve Jobs. It is subject matter I thought I would never read.

For an excellent read on Ford ( I should say the Ford's) his dealings / connections etc. with other countries, the War Dept  and on building bombers (fascinating)  and such for WWII .............. "The Arsenal of Democracy" by A. J. Baime

Seth

 

[CrazyLarry]

Name some major software that isn't recompiled for the PC market?

Zork?

Ok nice try, how about this decade?

There's little sense in not cross compiling to PC's when they are such a huge marketplace unless it's a historically closed shop such as music (which was previously an Amiga patch)

You perhaps meant Atari ST for music. Amigas were more for games and with the larger machines, video titling and editing. But I reckon you knew that.

You're quite right it was the ST but my point stands, market penetration perpetuates until there is a seachange then once a dominant platform establishes itself that is the status quo. As the sector / market gets bigger and bigger the change neccessary becomes more and more of a hurdle. Apple were lucky in both those instances, and are only really challenged in the video arena, music, stills, illustration etc still almost exclusively on Macs. But often just out of habit for the reasons I gave. I've seen Fairey's hooked up to a bank of PC's for in house publishing. The same firm also had a LOT of macs.

The Mac advantage is 1) it's what you already know 2) it's what your customer (supplier) knows 3) it fits your image or her image or both.

Notice how all three of those lend themselves to a premium price no additional engineering required!

I quite enjoy the free OS upgrade from Apple every so often, price of the OS engineering (and marketing I suppose) is built into the original hardware cost - hardware which at the time of typing this is approximately 7 years old and still going strong - Mac owners always say things like that, so I should probably not bother. So go me, I've fleeced Apple out of a few free upgrades now, ha ha!

I also like iMessage, and I especially now like how I can send and receive SMS messages on my computer, and phone calls too now. It's a nice to have. People who respond with "well, WhatsApp does free messages" don't get it, so please don't anyone use that argument.

You know how Dawkins is sometimes (wrongly) considered a fundamentalist atheist nowadays, it's a bit like people who are SO anti Apple they can't see straight any more - it's sort of "odd" to hate something with quite so much passion when it shouldn't really affect you. Ignore the problem and carry on. Like IBM did in 1933. And like Apple will do releasing that crock they call an iWatch into the wild.

He's a soft leftie hug a tambourine banger atheist!!!

I'm not anti Apple, I'm anti blind hype, macs do it for you and have done for years and you don't feel the desperate need to upgrade every 18 months, so to me you're not in the slightest bit blinded by hype or guided by marketing.

Downside of the 'free upgrades' is the shifting sands of architecture and processor: motorola, powerpc, intel, who knows each of which gives advantage to PCs in conservative environments. Arguments both ways again.

I wouldn't want there not to be an Apple for 2 reasons: hypercard and the newton both of which deserved the title visionary. I hope they do similar work again and can combine that originality with the slick marketing. But it'll take more than an iphone... or a watch...

 

[Wuffles]

I'm not anti Apple, I'm anti blind hype, macs do it for you and have done for years and you don't feel the desperate need to upgrade every 18 months, so to me you're not in the slightest bit blinded by hype or guided by marketing.

Didn't have you pegged as anti Apple, but for blind hype, we're banging the same tambourine bro.

Zork 2?

Also, controversial, but real posh watches need to tick. Otherwise it's not posh. Someone should tell Tim Cook.

 

[SittingElf]

I'm not anti Apple, I'm anti blind hype, macs do it for you and have done for years and you don't feel the desperate need to upgrade every 18 months, so to me you're not in the slightest bit blinded by hype or guided by marketing.

Also, controversial, but real posh watches need to tick. Otherwise it's not posh. Someone should tell Tim Cook.

I'm sure that some app developer will introduce a $.99 application that will make the iWatch "tick"! [big grin]

BTW... I will be buying one for my wife and myself when they are released later this month. Fitness apps for my wife...world and flight apps for me.

Cheers,

Frank  (and no, I don't yet have the iPhone6, so I've tempered just a tad... [embarassed])

 

[greg mann]

....
It is the fact that IBM and Gates made their products cheap that had the biggest contribution to shaping the information age. Yes they ripped off a lot of Apple ideas in doing it but I guess Henry Ford copied somebody but he had the vision to bring his product to a mass market and influenced far more people than Rolls Royce ever could.

Funny you mention Ford, yes he changed the world and used that success and influence for some despicable things, but that doesn't change the fact he changed the world  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/

I missed reading the link you posted though I was aware of his links with the Nazi Party. I didn't realise how deep rooted his feelings were and how his perceived position in society must have influenced many gullible or unsophisticated thinkers. His mass market vision stands but I have certainly seen him in a different light.

I have also as a result of this thread just purchased the Karen Blumenthal biography of Steve Jobs. It is subject matter I thought I would never read.

It is quite ironic that Ford stroked out shortly after viewing a private screening of a film documenting Nazi atrocities in one of the concentration camps, a stroke from which he never recovered. Whether is was from an overwhelming sense of remorse or not is open to speculation.

 

[andy5405]

I've just finished reading the Steve Jobs biography by Karen Blumenthal. It's strange as I think he is more of an a***hole having read it than I already thought but somehow I have come out of the experience liking him. I didn't think I would ever say that.

 

[wkearney99]

As I said before, the individual products are good, but it's the whole system that make Apple (& Festool) great.

Difference is Festool doesn't actively go out of their way to block 3rd parties from making complementary or even directly competitive add-ons.  Apple is notorious for being excessively arbitrary in how they abuse developers in this area.  Meanwhile they destroy functionality serious users need in the software, under the guise of 'simplifying' it... for who?  The dummies walking in off the street?  And meanwhile, the 3rd party that desperately wanted to push such features in their own products has been booted from the app store.  After being gouged 30% off the top while apple deigned to allow them in their in the first place.

The company is despicable and I'll have nothing to do with their products, and ABSOLUTELY not their services.

 

[elfick]

I wouldn't debate your opinions on anything else in your post, but this part is a pretty bad comparison:

Difference is Festool doesn't actively go out of their way to block 3rd parties from making complementary or even directly competitive add-ons.

For example, Apple makes iPhone cases, they don't stop others from making competitive cases. Conversely, if you replaced the innards of any Festool tool or tweaked the controller board on your CT, I'm pretty sure you'd run afoul of Festool's good graces in short order.

The difference being whether an add-on is internal or external. Software, by it's nature, is mostly internal (sandboxes and the like aside).

 

[sae]

I wouldn't debate your opinions on anything else in your post, but this part is a pretty bad comparison:

Difference is Festool doesn't actively go out of their way to block 3rd parties from making complementary or even directly competitive add-ons.

For example, Apple makes iPhone cases, they don't stop others from making competitive cases.

You're ignoring the obvious ones like the iPhone and lightning connectors that are chipped to disallow 3rd party chargers. It ticked enough people off that the European Union that they were forced to release a microUSB converter for it. With the new lightning stuff though, they're snubbing the EU once again.

 

[elfick]

I wouldn't debate your opinions on anything else in your post, but this part is a pretty bad comparison:

Difference is Festool doesn't actively go out of their way to block 3rd parties from making complementary or even directly competitive add-ons.

For example, Apple makes iPhone cases, they don't stop others from making competitive cases.

You're ignoring the obvious ones like the iPhone and lightning connectors that are chipped to disallow 3rd party chargers. It ticked enough people off that the European Union that they were forced to release a microUSB converter for it. With the new lightning stuff though, they're snubbing the EU once again.

Not only is that not obvious, but I think it makes my case stronger...
Firstly, how would Festool react if someone started marketing a plug-it cord or batteries for Festool tools?
Secondly, I'm fairly sure this is complete FUD because...
Thirdly, my iPhone charges fine from my 3rd party charger without any converter.

If you were being facetious or sarcastic, I apologize as I completely missed it.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Firstly, how would Festool react if someone started marketing a plug-it cord or batteries for Festool tools?

About batteries, 3rd party options for Festool are readily available.

 

[andy5405]

I don't want to enter the polarised Apple debate anymore in this thread as Wow made a big contribution to it and it somehow seems disrespectful. I might be a little bit too sentimental but it just seems the right way for me.