The Big Three!

[nickao]

I think jorsfts point is, would this person have posted if it did not have a monetary benefit to him or push people to his site. And I get that. I do not think it is BS.

If I did a tutorial I still would not direct you to my web site, thats me. I had a give away(not Festool), I would never put in on the site.I prefer no one from this forum ever go to my site, as I want to separate work and this forum. I think joraft thinks(rightfully) that this is Marc's business and it is. How can anyone deny that.

If Marc just would have posted the thread under dealer area, then no one can take the point of view as joraft has. Because then it is out ,"hey I am a dealer here is some info". Whether trying to be helpful or not only Marc knows that. Once again it is the appearance of bull crap that is the issue.

I do not think either train of thought is wrong, just cover yourself and post in an area no one can come back at you with negativity. If joraft was saying this and the thread was in the dealer area I would say he was off base, here I  think he has some  justifiable concerns.

 

[steverunner]

Hey John.  You talk as if all I've done is post ads at SMC.  How long do you think I would last there if I did that?  At my last count, I think i have about 65 posts.  Obviously that's not going to break any records, but I sure hope that wasn't 65 links back to my site.  And fortunately, SMC isn't the only forum out there.  You will find I have nearly 2000 posts over at WWA Info Exchange and 1175 posts at WoodNet. 

The truth of the matter is I no longer have enough time to actively participate in multiple forums.  Out of frustration and desire to remove distractions, I removed all forums from my easy access bookmarks.  That worked surprisingly well, by the way.  So my participation in all forums has dropped off lately.  While I will chime in on posts when I can, there are many times when my Festool information contribution will come in the form of a 5-15 minute video ( I do a couple a year).  If its Festool-related, I would assume its ok to post here, as long as someone tells me the proper place to post it.

I am no forum novice and I understand how these things work.  A person needs to "prove" themselves before having the privilege of pointing to their outside content.  You need to be wined and dined first...........I get that. 

And thanks everyone for the supportive comments. 

Hey Marc,
Keep up the good work, we like you !!

 

[Brad Evans]

Well done, funny, lots of information.

You have to wonder why some are so bitter.  Jealousy maybe?

 

[nickao]

"John, have you visited Marc's web site and looked at some of his demos?  If you have done so, I have no idea how you can possibly say that Marc has not made a contribution".

Well isn't that the point. Marc directs us to HIS site for the videos and does not post them here. Why is that a contribution to THIS site?
It is a contribution to Marc's site and he is asking people to go there. I submit that sending us to another site to see info is at best helpful, but NOT contributing to the FOG forum itself.

I am not saying it is wrong at all, but if you look at Timmy C and his posts, like of his conference table, that is a DIRECT CONTRIBUTION to this site.

joraft you are not complaining if you are saying what you think is right. Stick to your guns and post about it all day and night for all I care.

Nickao

 

[Per Swenson]

Fellas,

Lets not...(lookin for a word that won't offend)...

Nah insert your own.

Its like this, we are all adults and nobody's forcing you to go and clicky.

Frankly I will take good useful information anywhere I can get it.

Jeez I used to pay for it. Remember books? Magazines even.

How did I become exposed to those books?

Some one introduced me to them.

Pre internet how would you find late 1880 church joinery?

Some one pointed me in the right direction.

So unless you need a 12 step program for the internet

I don't think Marc's posting is doing anyone a disservice,

no matter how he phrased it.

My devalued nickel, for what its worth.

Per

PS  I'm gettin a video camera just for the controversy!

 

[nickao]

Per it does not bother me.

What bothers me is that jorafts statement seemed to ruffle feathers and it shouldn't. I do not know how many other forums you frequent, but I have run into plants etc and I think a lot of guys here are very suspicious to say the least from experiences on other forums.

Like I said, personally I do not care about Marc's post at all. But to come down on joraft for his point of view is wrong too(not that you have).

Per please nominate for the contest, a lot of guys here respect your comments.

nickao

 

[joraft]

C'mon, what BS?  He contributing Festool info on a Festool forum.  Nothing more nothing less!

Steve, is this really that hard to understand?

Marc drops in here with a link to page that has a complimentary video on it, PLUS a whole bunch of ads. Do you think he doesn't get paid for each person that clicks on any of those ads? If he was here only to contribute to this forum why not post a link directly to the flash file and leave out the ads?

I'd have more respect for the guy if he was honest about what he's doing. But instead, he apologizes for not participating here and promises to do more in the future. Then later he admits he really has no time to participate in any forums, so he never had any intention of keeping that promise in the first place. THAT'S the BS. Meanwhile he's dropped his link and got what he came here for, more traffic on his page, more clicks on his ads.

Is there some good stuff over on his site? You bet!  But he should have put his link in the folder here that's clearly marked for links. That would be contributing to this forum in the right way. But Marc knew he would get better results by framing it as a discussion thread. As he said, he's no novice to forums, he knows exactly what he's doing.

And to think, for this behavior he gets so much applause.

John

 

[nickao]

joraft I get your point of view for sure.

Can you make a nomination for a contest winner under the nominations thread for me? I am trying to get the ball rolling as it will be June before you know it!

Nickao

 

[Fred West]

Joraft, I have now read this entire thread three times and I completely agree and understand where you are coming from. Likw Nick said, keep it coming.

I too have been to Marc's site many times and he has some very valuable insights, etc. In fact I could easily say I am a huge fan of much of what he does on his site. However, as a "veteran" of so many forums he did make a mistake here. As Nick pointed out he should have posted in the dealer area and all of this would have been moot. Was I personally offended, no, but then I am actually very hard to offend and as Per has said I will also take info anywhere I can get it.

That all being said I think that Matthew should move this entire thread over to the dealer area and we can all go back to learning more about Festools. No matter what John, keep posting and as Nick said stick to your guns because you are correct in that Marc's posting was poorly placed and could be seen as very misleading. Fred

 

[greg mann]

As Nick pointed out he should have posted in the dealer area and all of this would have been moot. Was I personally offended, no, but then I am actually very hard to offend and as Per has said I will also take info anywhere I can get it.

Unless I am missing something obvious I don't think Marc is a dealer. Is his site commercial? Sure. But so is John Lucas' site and no one here, including me, has anything but very high regard for him. If we encourage Marc to participate in the forum in good spirit and he doesn't, then we can all pile on. Otherwise enough has already been said, IMO.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I don't think we are treating Marc with the same respect that we should treat all the members here. All Festool owners and soon to be owner are welcome on this site, I bet Matthew wouldn't want it any other way. Like Greg said, I don't think the sale zone is the right place for Macs promotions for his site (remember the video he post was really a promotion for Festool) maybe the "About our members" section, that's where the member website area is now located.

Welcome Marc!

 

[steverunner]

I don't think we are treating Marc with the same respect that we should treat all the members here. All Festool owners and soon to be owner are welcome on this site, I bet Matthew wouldn't want it any other way. Like Greg said, I don't think the sale zone is the right place for Macs promotions for his site (remember the video he post was really a promotion for Festool) maybe the "About our members" section, that's where the member website area is now located.

Welcome Marc!

Sounds a good suggestion, move it under about the member
if you look at the big picture, us talking about Festool , it's free advertisment for Festool , and we have not move the whole forum under "Dealer". Plus he is sponsored by Festool ....

  lot of ink for not much frankly

 

[Michael Kellough]

As Nick pointed out he should have posted in the dealer area and all of this would have been moot. Was I personally offended, no, but then I am actually very hard to offend and as Per has said I will also take info anywhere I can get it.

Unless I am missing something obvious I don't think Marc is a dealer. Is his site commercial? Sure. But so is John Lucas' site and no one here, including me, has anything but very high regard for him. If we encourage Marc to participate in the forum in good spirit and he doesn't, then we can all pile on. Otherwise enough has already been said, IMO.

I'm not sure John's site is commercial but I totally agree with Greg and Brice and Per and anyone else whose reaction is more or less "sheesh, what's the big deal?"

 

[joraft]

I don't think we are treating Marc with the same respect that we should treat all the members here.

Brice, I think respect for the members should go both ways.

... remember the video he posted was really a promotion for Festool

If that were the case, the link could have led to the video file only, without the ads. However, there's no doubt that it was the perfect "teaser" link for a forum full of Festoolians.

John

 

[joraft]

... I totally agree with Greg and Brice and Per and anyone else whose reaction is more or less "sheesh, what's the big deal?"

There are now dozens (maybe hundreds) of websites just like Marc's, woodworking related and supported to a great extent by ads. Most of them are hungry for "clickers". If you look at Marc's home page there's hardly a single pixel not populated by an ad to click on.

One of these guys coming here looking for traffic may not be a "big deal", but if a few dozen more do the same it will truly be something to talk about. But then it could be too late.

As Ned Young said earlier, this forum has been lucky so far. But why leave it all to luck? Why not address these issues as they come up? While they're still at a manageable level?

I'm guessing that the members here that are the most "kind and gentle" about this have never seen a good forum self-destruct within a matter of months. It's not a pleasant thing to watch.

John

 

[Brice Burrell]

  John, your point is well taken. I'm glad we have members that speak up when something is happening that they don't like. And if Marc get out of hand, I'll take care of him. 

 

[joraft]

  John, your point is well taken. I'm glad we have members that speak up when something is happening that they don't like.

Thank you, Brice.

And as several have pointed out, this horse is long since dead, so I will now quit flogging it. 

John

 

[Daviddubya]

I go out of town for a while and I come back to this thread.  Wow - what a lot of posting about a very insignificant issue, IMHO of course.  For sure Marc's site is commercial.  Certainly, he want us to visit his site.  I think Marc makes a significant contribution to Festool users and to woodworkers in general simply by producing his videos.  I have met Marc, attended one of his classes, and I think he is a straight-up guy trying to make a buck.  At the same time Marc has something to contribute here by letting folks know about his site.  To me it's all OK.  And regarding what forum group a thread is under - does anyone really care?  With threads like this one to read and respond to it is no wonder Marc does not have time for participating in forums!

 

[thewoodwhisperer]

Well, John, you have me completely figured out, eh?  You have made a number of incorrect assumptions, but I have no desire to belabor the point.

I emailed Matt before posting and asked permission to make the post and told him that I wanted to make sure I played by the forum rules.  I assumed that if this type of post was inappropriate or belonged in one particular area, Matt would have let me know.  And if placed in the wrong area, its easy enough to simply move it to another folder.  Since I am not a dealer, I didn't think it would make sense to go in the Dealer section.  As for the Flash video insertion, I just didn't realize this forum had that capability. 

Even if I couldn't link to my Festool-related content, I would still want to participate in this forum.  There is just something intriguing about a group of people unified by a power tool brand. 

I hope this particular matter can be dealt with quickly, so I know what the rules are, and we can all resume talking about the subject we like most.

marc

 

[Frank Pellow]

...
. Marc directs us to HIS site for the videos and does not post them here. Why is that a contribution to THIS site?
It is a contribution to Marc's site and he is asking people to go there. I submit that sending us to another site to see info is at best helpful, but NOT contributing to the FOG forum itself.

I am not saying it is wrong at all, but if you look at Timmy C and his posts, like of his conference table, that is a DIRECT CONTRIBUTION to this site.
...
Nickao

I could care less where Marc posts the Festool videos.  I learn about them at this site then I do a few extra clicks to get the them  So what?  I think of that as a valuable extension to this site.

I have done the same thing in some of my threads where I say a bit here in order to provide an anchor then link to threads that I have written in other forums.