The Fog versus other Social Media

[peter halle]

Hi Guys and Gals.

This isn't some sort of marketing thing.  I am concerned and also curious and would love to read honest, non-distracted comments on the following question.  Please bare with me.

This forum predates the modern social media products.  It has evolved to some extent. I have been involved behind the scenes since close to to this time in 2009.

So my questions to you is: Does the FOG provide a benefit that you believe you can't find on the other social net-working sites?  Why?

I would appreciate it if all of you would take a moment, think, and then compose a response.

Peter Halle

 

[bkharman]

First!  Couldn't resist! (For those who don't know I was poking fun of other internet-y type stuff)

Resounding yes from me. I am "old school" and don't have Facebook, only use Twitter for work, same with LinkedIn, etc.

Talking with real people, in more than 140 characters, for a site dedicated to the use of tools and Festools is ideal. I have talked with many forum members outside of the FOG as a result.

I also like YouTube for certain things but it is definitely second fiddle. Lately, I have backed off of the FOG as there has been yet another influx of people getting their panties in a bunch about nothing. Grows old quick...

Great question Peter!

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[jacko9]

Peter,

I have been a member here for a while and I can definitely say that this forum has helped me.  First, let me explain that several years ago I was in the market for a horizontal mortising machine something like the Felder Mortiser or one of the cheaper versions from Laguna but the prices kept putting me off.  I'm not quite sure how I discovered the Domino Joiner but after seeing it I called Beaver Tool and spoke with the owner who gave me a great description and the very good advice to buy the Extractor and Domino Selection.  That purchase and my utmost satisfaction of the Domino Joiner, led me to purchase the Festool Triton jigsaw to replace a very poor Craftsman unit.

I didn't think much more about Festool until I had a problem with the fence slipping on my Domino and did an online search and found the FOG site.

I joined and asked questions and did a search about the Domino Fence slipping and found out t hat others had experienced the same thing.  While asking about fixes, Shane suggested that I call the repair center and see about a warranty fix however, it turned out that my Domino was about 6 months out of warranty.  Shane had me call the repair center and then authorized an (one time) extension to fix my Domino.  That experience had me more interested in the Festool line of tools.  While the Domino filled an immediate need for me, the FOG site was instrumental in getting knowledge about other Festool products.

I'm a bit of a skeptic so I did visit Japan Woodworker (when they had their retail store) and tried some of the sanders and started to become more of a believer.

I now own; Domino 500 and accessories, Domino 700 and accessories, Kapex and UG stand, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, RO 90, LS 130, Triton jigsaw, T-18 kit, CXS Drill and kit, 2 Sysports, Ct22, Centrotec Installers Kit, and a whole lot of supplies and other Systainers.

I purchased the Mafell MT-55cc Track saw because of information gathered here at the FOG and I continue to participate in woodworking discussions because of the excellent quality of fellow woodworkers on here that value high quality work.

I participate in a few other forums but, the content is a mixture of beginner questions to very opinionated home remedies and methods.  Don't get me wrong about the other sites they all have value but, the FOG has a more consistent content of the topics I value the most.

Hope this answers your question.

Jack

 

[stvrowe]

Peter,
I believe the FOG is the best of the woodworking forums and is the only one that I actively participate in.  As far as I am concerned, I consider the FOG my internet woodworking home.  I have previously participated in other forums and none of them hold a candle to the FOG in activity, quality of content, and comradery.  Occasionally I visit other forums but it is just that - a visit, I always come home to the FOG. 

The FOG has world wide participation and the comments, questions, and responses are usually very well thought out.  I generally don't see what I consider 'silly' questions on this forum like I do some of the others.  These type of posts tend to clutter the other forums and I quickly tire of filtering through it.  Overall, the FOG has a wide spectrum membership from newbies to very experienced and from hobbyists to those who make a living at woodworking/carpentry and we all get along pretty well and exchange useful information in the process.

 

[charley1968]

Yes. Because i use this site mainly to get info about procedures and machines. The rest is socialising with the people on the forum, that's fun as well.

 

[peter halle]

Guys,

Thank you for your obviously well thought out posts.

Hope others will continue this the same way.

Peter

 

[Wooden Skye]

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member] good question.

I have been a member for a few years, the main reason I joined was I was interested in learning about Festool before I jumped in.  I think the forum is well managed and overall is a good community.  However since a certain person took a new position, I have sensed a bit of a difference, not necessarily good or bad. 

Some of the members that I communicated with are no longer here or active, which is disappointing.  There are still several members I like to follow or would consider friends (internet variety).  I agree with Bryan about some of the new members initial intentions are to complain, which can get old fast.

I am not a Facebook or Twitter guy, so most of my woodworking is from forums and YouTube.  As for the other forums, they have pluses and minuses, and some of the same issues all forums have.

I check in here often and will continue to do so because I can still learn new things about woodworking and other things. 

 

[Shane Holland]

Good thread, Peter.

I've been a member of the FOG since it was a Yahoo Group back in 2005-ish. It's been fun to watch the forum grow and mature over the past decade. Wow, it's been a while.  [blink]

This forum could never be replaced by one of the current social media platforms. HOWEVER, those too have their place. I think Facebook, for example, is great for just sharing interesting things with people you know. Short snippets of info or a link to a video or a webpage. They are aggregators of interesting stuff.

This place is a society of like minded people, teaching and learning from one another. A place which was created to provide a civil, friendly environment for folks to talk about tools. And, not just Festool tools, but any tool. While it's focused on Festool, there are discussions that go outside of the scope of the Festool brand and even point out tools/brands that someone might like better. That requires a lot of admirable restraint from Festool to allow that to happen. For a lesser brand, it might be suicide.

So, what really makes the FOG great? You. Each and every one of you. The dedicated dealers. The aftermarket product inventors. Those who think outside of Systainer and find new and innovative ways to use these tools. The bloggers, educators, and celebs. Those who have shared with us but are no longer with us. The employees of Festool, including those abroad. And, certainly the fantastic member moderators, [member=1674]Peter Halle[/member] and [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member], who have given their time to help make this a great place.

This is a SysWikipedia of sorts.  [big grin] You could never get this extent of Q&A, opinions and advice, product information, how-to's, and so much more on a social media platform.

The FOG is a special place. A place that's a part of me and, to some extent, a part of my legacy.

Shane

 

[Mort]

I think the FOG is great because of it's narrow focus. It's specifically about Festool and how to get the most out of them, but also about the more broad subject of high end woodworking tools and methods.

Facebook is broad: my grandmother looks at pictures of my kids, I keep up with old high school buddies, I get info on wildfires.

Woodworkingtalk.com is more narrow; I look for info on hand cut dovetails, tuning bandsaws, etc.

FOG gives me info on which sander or Domino I want to buy next, and where to buy it that has the best customer service (you a**holes make that really hard, with all your good service and all).

Each have their niche in the online world, and are equally useful.

 

[Kev]

To me the FOG is a community of people first with something in common to share as their seed to entering into the community. Knowledge of this community's existence and reputation has drawn others (mostly good, but a few ill willed) to it.

The technology itself, as a web forum, certainly isn't the draw card as it's very old fashioned from a technology perspective, but it does seem to suit the pace of the members.

To directly answer the questions ...

1. The FOG provides a connection to a group of people I would not otherwise have easy access to.

2. I genuinely enjoy sharing ideas, learnings, stories, etc with a good bunch of people.

 

[NHSP759]

I like the FOG and there are a few members that I genuinely like and respect and have learned so much from. I have been prey to and watched members get bashed by other members in the past though. Sometimes it's deserved but more often than not its because one member has a differing opinion from another and then the gang frenzy begins. I check in here daily and look at interesting topics but my participation has lessened. Still I'm a Festool guy and love learning about the tools from members here so I'm sticking around. I also still make my purchases with the absolute knowledge that my tools are well made, precision quality tools that will last me a life time.  I really enjoy watching Peter Parfitt' YouTube Chanel as well as erocks (I know it's been quiet lately) and miss WOW. I participate in two other forums with great regularity and enjoy those sites immensely but for my Festool questions I am here and regularly use the search bar. I try not to ask to many questions as I've missed a previous post in the search bar and get an immediate response from members to query the search bar.

 

[grbmds]

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]  I consider the FOG one of a number of resources for my woodworking skills and knowledge that I go to on a regular basis. I learn a lot, but the number one reason I read the FOG posts regularly is that it contains a lot of information about Festool tools, how to best use them, and various jigs that members make. This information, of course, also contributes to my general woodworking knowledge and I'm always amazed at the innovativeness and ingenuity of the FOG posters. If I have a problem, a question I can't answer, or I need help with a Festool tool I own, I search the FOG first, then post a question if I can't find the answer. The variety of answers is always interesting. There are a number of posters who always provide good, sound, reasonable answers and that keeps me coming back.

The same downsides exist on the FOG that exist on other forums though. Some threads start out interesting and useful, but then turn into a discussion which is not productive to the point of the original post and sometimes argumentative. That can be a little frustrating, but I'm sure I've been guilty of straying from the point at times also. It's easy to do when something just occurs to you while posting.

 

[Stephen B]

Peter,
I believe the FOG is the best of the woodworking forums and is the only one that I actively participate in.  As far as I am concerned, I consider the FOG my internet woodworking home.  I have previously participated in other forums and none of them hold a candle to the FOG in activity, quality of content, and comradery.  Occasionally I visit other forums but it is just that - a visit, I always come home to the FOG. 

The FOG has world wide participation and the comments, questions, and responses are usually very well thought out.  I generally don't see what I consider 'silly' questions on this forum like I do some of the others.  These type of posts tend to clutter the other forums and I quickly tire of filtering through it.  Overall, the FOG has a wide spectrum membership from newbies to very experienced and from hobbyists to those who make a living at woodworking/carpentry and we all get along pretty well and exchange useful information in the process.

Agree generally here with Steve, particularly regarding the international perspective.

As others have said or inferred, they may not be as active as they were in the past. Even I have restrained myself from participating in some recent threads.

I think that after you have been a member for a while there becomes a sameness in some topics. 'Oh, I could answer that question, I would have in the past, but I have to get to work, or to sleep'.

My most active thread of late has been 'One for the Aussies' because of the Australian connectiveness.

I certainly like looking at others projects; it is interesting the lack of replys to some great work when compared to some other topics/threads; for example, a debating thread.  Speaking of debates, they can be great but they do not have to become rude or patronising.

As to moderation, all the moderators do a great job.  [smile] [smile]  However it is very obvious that the direct participation of any Festool US Employee has floundered. This has I believe put some increased preasure on Seth and Peter and whilst I think they do a great job, at times recently moderation on some threads has been late or too severe [This is my perception, so please do not ask for specifics.] I have also noticed that PHIL UK Festool is assisting more in moderation and that is great.  [smile]

Maybe it it time to increase the number of moderators, even someone outside NA? But not me! [eek] [eek]

 

[RVHernandez]

I hope none of the "higher-ups" are thinking of killing the FOG. Facebook and Twitter do not and cannot serve the same function as this forum. And as far as getting information as it relates to using the Festool "system", this is by far the best resource I have found. I come here everyday to find out what everyone is up to and see what's new. Are there posts that reveal the shortcomings of some of Festool tools? Sure, but hopefully that only helps to make the tool updates better and us more informed on work-arounds and solutions.

Where else would we go for this kind of shared enthusiasm for Festool? The FOG is the best, most honest form of "marketing" Festool could hope for.

 

[Kev]

Peter,
I believe the FOG is the best of the woodworking forums and is the only one that I actively participate in.  As far as I am concerned, I consider the FOG my internet woodworking home.  I have previously participated in other forums and none of them hold a candle to the FOG in activity, quality of content, and comradery.  Occasionally I visit other forums but it is just that - a visit, I always come home to the FOG. 

The FOG has world wide participation and the comments, questions, and responses are usually very well thought out.  I generally don't see what I consider 'silly' questions on this forum like I do some of the others.  These type of posts tend to clutter the other forums and I quickly tire of filtering through it.  Overall, the FOG has a wide spectrum membership from newbies to very experienced and from hobbyists to those who make a living at woodworking/carpentry and we all get along pretty well and exchange useful information in the process.

Agree generally here with Steve, particularly regarding the international perspective.

As others have said or inferred, they may not be as active as they were in the past. Even I have restrained myself from participating in some recent threads.

I think that after you have been a member for a while there becomes a sameness in some topics. 'Oh, I could answer that question, I would have in the past, but I have to get to work, or to sleep'.

My most active thread of late has been 'One for the Aussies' because of the Australian connectiveness. I certainly like looking at others projects; it is interesting the lack of replys to some great work when compared to some other topics/threads; for example, a debating thread.  Speaking of debates, they can be great but they do not have to become rude or patronising.

As to moderation, all the moderators do a great job.  [smile] [smile]  However it is very obvious that the direct participation of any Festool US Employee has floundered. This has I believe put some increased preasure on Seth and Peter and whilst I think they do a great job, at times recently moderation on some threads has been late or too severe [This is my perception, so please do not ask for specifics.] I have also noticed that PHIL UK Festool is assisting more in moderation and that is great.  [smile]

Maybe it it time to increase the number of moderators, even someone outside NA? But not me! [eek] [eek]

All in favour of Untidy talking up an international moderator role say ...  [wink]

The "vibe" here on the FOG has certainly changed since the level of direct Festool involvement (Shane) decreased and the increased number of trolls does detract from the enjoyment .. particularly in that treating them for what they are seems to immediately contravene forum policy!

(This is in no way a reflection on Peter and Seth)

To Untidy's point, I really do enjoy the long running Aussie thread, it's a real shame that the Australian commercial world of Festool believes the internet is purely there to sell and tell .. not to listen and understand.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I do not consider the FOG a social net-working site. It is a different formula. On sites like FB, LinkedIn or Twitter the people are central, here it's only the information that's central.

 

[demographic]

I'm on various other forums (doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out which one I am cos so far I've always used the same username) and the manufacturer specific forums are very good for getting specific answers to technical questions.

KXriders.com is, fairly unsurprisingly enough very good for getting technical answers to questions I have about my venerable KX 500 motorcycle.

Gixxer.com for information regarding my Suzuki GSXR 750 Slingshot motorcycle.

Here for Festool info.

But then there's other sites I use which give me a sort of general (and in some cases less biased) overview and besides, no single manufactures is best at everything and I like to see what they are upto as well, plus there's people with other experience I would like to benefit from.
There's people in both that have far more experience than ma and also those who have less, just depends on the subjects.

Generally speaking I tend to take the people who say "X manufacturer is the bestest at everything and I buy whatever they make" with a pinch of salt unless that opinion is qualified with greater information,

 

[bertv]

I kind of stumbled upon FOG a while ago, even registered at the time, but never gave it much thought or attention (stuff going on in my life…). Lately I have become kind of obsessed and visit several times a day.

I probably am that way: whenever I want to know something, need to learn, I plunge myself into the subject 300% and try to soak up everything that can be found. Woodworking being on of my latest obsessions I must have seen hundreds of YouTube video’s. FOG is a great resource and I have discovered things here that are amazing and very valuable to me.

As for the newish stuff (Facebook, etc.): I have seen a lot of forms of interaction on the web, starting with Bulletin Board Services (I even moderated a Forum for half a decade in the nineties) and in my opinion a well-run forum is the best. The possibility of going long form is very valuable and sets it apart from the ‘hap snap’ stuff like Twitter and the personality obsessed Facebook and its kind.

The way FOG works is pretty good. The Unread button is my place to go (and a far better experience than for instance on woodworking.nl, another forum I frequent since a short while). The one irritant is that one can not disable the Notify function globally. And there should be a more comprehensive and FOG-dedicated How To. But these are minor things. Please keep up the good work!

 

[Sparktrician]

I made the choice to not participate in social networking (Facebook, Twitter and the like) a long time ago.  I participate in LinkedIn for professional reasons only.  The FOG is another story altogether.  In my world, it's a wonderful source of information regarding processes, techniques and tools.  The FOG is exceptional in the positive reinforcement that seems prevalent.  OK, some folks get their knickers in a twist occasionally, but the vast majority of interactions are very positive in nature.  I like learning about how woodworkers in other countries do things that may differ from how we do things in NA.  I also like the willingness of FOG members to help other members that are less knowledgeable to understand processes.  I think it's appropriate to thank "The Management" over the years (Shane, Peter and Seth) for their common vision and even-handed care-taking of the FOG and developing it as yet another tool of discovery. Well done, guys!  [thumbs up]

 

[jbasen]

Because of its unique focus I think FOG adds tremendous, and unique, value to Festool tool owners that would be lost if it were replaced by one of the broader social media platforms.  It is a community that has a very narrow focus and the user experience of the FOG is targeted to fulfill the needs of the community.  Facebook, and other social media platforms, have there place but I believe a lot would be lost if the FOG was migrated to one of them.