The new Festool parallel guides are great!

[John Stevens]

Just read Jerry's tutorial and had a concern about cutting between MFTs, or any situation in which the guide rail is not fully supported while cutting.  It risks that the guide rail will bend and the cut will not be perpendicular to the face of the work piece.  This isn't just my opinion--it's what I was told years ago by Festool's tech support while troubleshooting my old AT-65.  Those of us who use the guide rails regularly for cutting probably have already learned this one way or another.  :

Regards,

John

 

[fshanno]

I don't know if that was ment to be rethorical, but speed when doing multiple cuts of the same width would be an advantage. Using the system you describe you have to clamp both of the rules to the workpiece you're about to cut. With the PA's they're attached to the guiderail, so you don't have to go to both ends of the board, and you don't have to clamp. And off course, they're metric instead of imperial 

BTW, the scale seems to be a stainless steel rule glued on a recess in the aluminum profile, if festool doesn't plan on making an imperial version, it wouldn't be too hard to modify a metric version into an imperial one.

It wasn't rhetorical, more like, somebody talk me into it.  Looking closely at Jerry's tutorial just reaffirms how very cool and professional looking the FS-PA is.  But that's just a measure of my Festool obsession.

I'm getting accurate rips with the rule method.  Within 1/64 of parallel over 8'.  So the FS-PA won't increase my accuracy.  My method has two distinct advantages.  1.  Material thickness is not a consideration.  2.  My current configuration allows 35" rips.  The imperial vs metric really is a non-issue, I'll grant that.  I'd probably be doing myself a favor if I went metric anyway.

I tested it.  It takes about 30 seconds to cycle between rips using the rules.  The FS-PA must take some time, let's call it 5 seconds.  Figuring 3 long rips per sheet and a labor cost of $20 per hour I'll need to go through 792 sheets of plywood to get full ROI.  The FS-PA would pay for itself in no less than 40 kitchens and I'm probably being generous to the FS-PA because I want one so bad.  It's in the realm of possibility, but I'll have to think about it.

Now if I can get a dependably dead square 36" crosscut using a single arm as a t-square, then that's a horse of a different color.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I confess to buying in on the parallel guides.

They are easy to use once set up and depending on what you do they might help or not. The one thing I liked was last week as I was making umpteen 400x600 mm shelves out of mdf and after the initial set up of five minutes the shelves were done in an instant: just marked up the first one to check the guides and the rest were on the fly. And they were all matching up nicely.

Too bad the rest of the shelves were 750mm. For them I used the talmeter to scratch a mark on either side and then used the MFT table with the rail, a little slower what with marking and checking the rail and all, but not cumbersome really.

I would like an extension that would enable up to a little more than 1000mm cuts, that would suffice. As it is now it is a little limiting for what I do. For the longer cuts I could have slid up the parallel guide (removing the end stops) but then again I would have had to mark up each cut anyway, so now gain there.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

The profiles appear to be substantial enough to permit addition of extensions, if Festool chooses to offer them.  I'm going to stick with my shop-made parallel cut stops, and spend my money on other tools. 

  It doesn't take long to setup or or place this simple jig for repeat ripcuts, and you can reference off the front edge of the stock as shown (allowing for the kerf) or rear edge of the stock and not having to allow for the kerf.  Right now I am in need of a better and bigger chain saw.

Dave R.

 

[Tinker]

Dave, I was nearly convinced to spring for the parallel guides.  And then you came along with your own system.  I like it.
It should work great when using the MFT with guidebar anchored square.  The advantage with the parallel guides is that they can be set square to the edge so there is not a discrepancy in length due to canting to one side or the other.  For my existing setup in shop, I am sure your method would work fine as I only need to be concerned with with of cut.  The square is already accounted for with the fence/guide setup 90?
Tinker

 

[Frank-Jan]

Nice jigs Dave! I saw a pair of similar ones somewhere on a forum a while back, but they didn't use the clamping blocks to attach to the guide rail (he used wooden blocks instead).

A few months ago I had to cut a lot of various sheetgoods for a roof overhang (first underlayment for the bottom of the +- 40cm wide "gutter", then 18mm wbp for the fascia (+-24cm wide) , then 12mm wbp ply for the soffits; all about 140 meters. During all the marking and cutting,  I repeatedly said to myself I would make me a pair of jobsite proof ones of the things I had seen, and I made a mental note of checking how wide the things could go that come with the shelf-hole drilling kit (I don't have that stuff)
But when I got home the festool flyer with the PA things was in the mail, so I didn't bother checking and thought I would just order them before the next job.

@Fshanno:
I didn't really bother reasoning the exact price and when I would have total ROI, because for me the cost was higher, because I had to get an additional 3m guide rail aswell(The one we already had was of the old kind, and misses the extra rib to attach the things).
It was more for making stuff I have to do somewhat more "enjoyable"

 

[honeydoman]

Nice jigs Dave! I saw a pair of similar ones somewhere on a forum a while back, but they didn't use the clamping blocks to attach to the guide rail (he used wooden blocks instead).

A few months ago I had to cut a lot of various sheetgoods for a roof overhang (first underlayment for the bottom of the +- 40cm wide "gutter", then 18mm wbp for the fascia (+-24cm wide) , then 12mm wbp ply for the soffits; all about 140 meters. During all the marking and cutting,  I repeatedly said to myself I would make me a pair of jobsite proof ones of the things I had seen, and I made a mental note of checking how wide the things could go that come with the shelf-hole drilling kit (I don't have that stuff)
But when I got home the festool flyer with the PA things was in the mail, so I didn't bother checking and thought I would just order them before the next job.

@Fshanno:
I didn't really bother reasoning the exact price and when I would have total ROI, because for me the cost was higher, because I had to get an additional 3m guide rail aswell(The one we already had was of the old kind, and misses the extra rib to attach the things).
It was more for making stuff I have to do somewhat more "enjoyable"

frank,  sounds like fun  since you are in belgium.... do they eat belgium walfles or do they call them amercian walfles over their.. since here in american we can be service belgium walfles.... nothing to do with festool. just curious.

 

[honeydoman]

those of you who have the parallel guides.  do they just butt up against the edge?  that you will be cutting parrell to?  or do they go way out on the perpendicular edges as it looks in the picture at festool,  thanks.

I will be going to woodcraft tomorrow to see them in action.

 

[fshanno]

@Fshanno:
I didn't really bother reasoning the exact price and when I would have total ROI, because for me the cost was higher, because I had to get an additional 3m guide rail aswell(The one we already had was of the old kind, and misses the extra rib to attach the things).
It was more for making stuff I have to do somewhat more "enjoyable"

Very good point.  The intangibles can sometimes become more "real" than we are willing to admit.  From what I've seen Festool is very pleased to offer this new attachment.  They must have thought it through and through before settling on a design.  That speaks for itself.  And finally the ROI was slow but it was real.  The FS-PA will certainly pay for itself before the warranty runs out.  Additionally, my calculations were based on the $325 for the PA and VL without adding any benefit from that narrow rip component.  Plus there's the 30 day thing.

I'm getting closer.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

those of you who have the parallel guides.  do they just butt up against the edge?   that you will be cutting parrell to?  or do they go way out on the perpendicular edges as it looks in the picture at festool,  thanks.

I will be going to woodcraft tomorrow to see them in action.

Kreg,

When I saw them demonstrated by a Festool factory representative on a small panel of 3/4 inch thick plywood, to rip narrow strips from it, the parallel guides were attached to the Guide Rail so the plywood would just fit between the parallel guide extrusions.  Remember, the parallel guide extrusions extend below the bottom surface of the Guide Rail.  The adjustable stops on the extrusions of the parallel guide bear against the ends of the panel to be cut that are parallel to the cut edge of the splinter strip of the Guide Rail.  The depth of those extrusions and the way they mount to the Guide Rail is why stock that is thinner than the thickness of the extrusions must be supported above the table top surface so the Guide Rail with parallel guide attachments will set properly on the workpiece to be cut.

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

After really looking at these they are for the person with more time and less space and have no table saw than anyone else.

I see this as a way to make the Festool system feasible for cutting repeatable small strips and that is it. Not that it is better than any other way, just that it enables the Festool system to do these operations.

I will stick to my table saw and cut my stuff faster without having to take the time to set it up and then not have my TS 75 ready and waiting.

FOR ME I would need this thing set up all the time in another area to make it worth while, meaning double rails. Plus I cut so much thin stuff it seems like a PIA set up FOR ME.

Festool get over it and just design a stand alone table saw. There is no way this system is eliminating the table saw and I still see no reason why it seems Festool and certain users are hell bent on eliminating it in the first place.

 

[Tinker]

After really looking at these they are for the person with more time and less space and have no table saw than anyone else.

I see this as a way to make the Festool system feasible for cutting repeatable small strips and that is it. Not that it is better than any other way, just that it enables the Festool system to do these operations.

I will stick to my table saw and cut my stuff faster without having to take the time to set it up and then not have my TS 75 ready and waiting.

FOR ME I would need this thing set up all the time in another area to make it worth while, meaning double rails. Plus I cut so much thin stuff it seems like a PIA set up FOR ME.

Festool get over it and just design a stand alone table saw. There is no way this system is eliminating the table saw and I still see no reason why it seems Festool and certain users are hell bent on eliminating it in the first place.
[/quote

Hey Nick, i don't find where anybody has stated that this system is absolutely better than anything else.  for me, in my small shop, I have eliminated my table saw.  I do not say that I do not miss it, but I had to eliminate something.  When it come down to the nitty gritty, it was what had to go.  It is still hidden away out in my storage barn gathering rust.  Secretly, i wish i still had it in my shop, but for now, it is not to be.

I have figured out ways to cut very thin strips with my ATF 55/guide rail, clamps and the MFS system (Methods I have learned elsewhere here on the FOG >>> Thank you very much) that are absolutely repeatable and far safer than any other way I can devise, even if i still had the table saw.  It works for me, as well as others who have posted. 

Am I "hell bent" on eliminating the TS? No.  It is, however a necessity.  Do others who have tried, successfully or otherwise, to get rid of the TS feel hell bent to do so?  Maybe for some, but I am sure each individual has their reasons that should be respected as good ideas from the rest of us.  What's great for me ain't necessarily even worth a try for you or anybody else.
Tinker

 

[honeydoman]

After really looking at these they are for the person with more time and less space and have no table saw than anyone else.

I see this as a way to make the Festool system feasible for cutting repeatable small strips and that is it. Not that it is better than any other way, just that it enables the Festool system to do these operations.

I will stick to my table saw and cut my stuff faster without having to take the time to set it up and then not have my TS 75 ready and waiting.

FOR ME I would need this thing set up all the time in another area to make it worth while, meaning double rails. Plus I cut so much thin stuff it seems like a PIA set up FOR ME.

Festool get over it and just design a stand alone table saw. There is no way this system is eliminating the table saw and I still see no reason why it seems Festool and certain users are hell bent on eliminating it in the first place.

I agree.  I saw them yesterday and they are nice.  it seems like each set up would take time, as a unisaw can just get er done.  I was thinking to get them to rip down my sheet goods for bookcases.  each unit I build usually has about 6 strips of 3/4 x 11 1/4 for sides and shelves.  and then 2-3 pieces for 23 1/4 for bottom cabs.  I have HD rip the 4x8 in half down the middle and then come to shop and do the final rips on my unisaw or long guide rail make mark and cut.

second deal is the scale is all in mm not inches so conversion, of course once I covert I would write it on the gauges as 95 % of my rips are the same width.

so I have one on hold for me at woodcraft where I saw it yesterday. and will think if I will get it today or tomorrow.  the jury is still out... but I do agree with your reasons also.  someone with time, no table saw it is great.

now if I had big bucks I would by 2 sets and 2 long rails and have them set up all the time for the 2 rips I do..  lets see how much would that be.... about a gran.

 

[nickao]

Yes having them set up all the time would be great. I did not mean to dis the Parallel guides at all it is a neat item, just not for me at this time.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Let me throw out a concept.  I am strong believer that you do not want parallel on all your cuts. If you did, you could have a parallelogram as a door -- not good. I have made a rule for my shop: All long "east/west" cuts will be parallel using the two ruler method (east/west being long (8') direction and north/south will be perpendicular. I find that one half of the parallel guide gives me perpendicular best.
  Now you may well say that this is twice the amount of measuring hardware, and you would be right. My answer is that every panel I cut is dead-on. Per Swenson is my idol when it comes to  a "real approach to woodworking."He doesn't want to spend time checking every cut to see if it is perp or parallel. He just goes to the saw and knows that it is setup correctly and makes the cut. Certainly we do this with the Kapex and the same for the table saw (when I had one.) So you want a system with guide rails to give you this same degree of accuracy and speed. The east/west  north/south does that for me.
I am preparing an illusdtrated step-by-step now and will post it next week.

 

[tallgrass]

?

 

[honeydoman]

john,

looking forward to seeing it.

I still might buy the basic set, and still think it will be a time saver for me.

 

[Warrior]

?

exactly, 

 

[honeydoman]

well since they have been out now for 11 days, those of you who bought the parallel guides, how do you like them?  are they worth it?

I probabley will pick up mine on saturday. and just wanted to follow up on to see if you all still like them.

 

[Steve Jones]

Well, I've had a set from before the release date (get loaned a set for evaluation and don't plan on returning them)

I have tried them pointing in pretty much every compass direction and haven't found any discernable advantage to that concept.

Still impressed with them in fact, every time I need to make more than one cut I use the guides, and for most cross cuts I put one guide in place to ensure a right angle cut, (this device is also the "T" square for a guide rail that so many have wished for).

Are they worth it? like so many (maybe all) Festool products, there is no one size fits all answer to that question. For me (still cutting plywood all day despite having sold the custom cabinet business)  I am using them constantly, they are a bit of a PIA to install and remove from the rail with a minimal clearance opening which must be slid on from the end of the rail and two locking clamps to secure it once it's mounted, (one on top, and one underneath the rail). it's not quite as slick as one would hope for, but then all that mounting hardware is probably required to get the level of accuracy as a square.

The ideal would probably be to leave one guide attached to a short rail for crosscuts and add the second (or move both to a longer rail when needed)

However, in my experience I usually need to cut some piece of plywood to a particular width (which the guides do perfectly on the long rail - it's as accurate as running the sheet over a tablesaw without the strain and discomfort of hauling full sheets around).
Then I need to cross cut that strip into lengths, usually at least two, sometimes more - again the guides excel at providing the accuracy and consistency that is otherwise difficult to obtain.

Still love these things, they are not perfect, but ARE always better than the alternative method of doing the task.