The new Mirka CEROS sander

OK, UPS delivered and there was a big box sitting on the kitchen table when I got home. Grabbed it to head down to the basement and my first impression was that the thing was damned heavy for a tool that I was impressed with because of its weight...

WoodWerks shipped it in a box that very tightly fit the Mirka box which was sized to very  tightly fit the baby-puke-yellow Sys2. Took some prying to separate the layers of corrugated shiptainer but evidently they were enough to prevent UPS from doing their best: The Sys2 was unmarred. But still heavy...

My heart gladdened when I noticed that Mirka had carried on in the time-honored Festool tradition of the self-removing label, I felt right at home. Although they did screw up a little, as you face the Systainer the tool label is on the LEFT of the Sys. The label facing you simply says "Mirka", but it also met my expectations for adhesiveness(or lack thereof).

Opening up the Sys, the first thing I was confronted with was goodies, an Abranet sampler pack containing one of each grit and an additional sampler of the Abranet HD discs in 40/60/80 grits. Haven't found anywhere to buy the HD discs yet, but at least now I have three....

Below lay the sander, the cord(permanently attached), the transformer, some scratch paper otherwise known as a manual, a DVD in a clamshell case and a stamped-steel wrench. Picked up the sander and noticed it definitely wasn't the cause of the weighty box, about the same as I remembered from using it at the show. Picked up the zip-tied cord and found it weighed in at least half-again the sander weight. Next the transformer, it's heavier than the cord... They did add a carrying handle to the transformer, though: a piece of 18-AWG steel cable attached by two crimp-on ring terminals(all insulated). Cheesy... [wink]

I had 11 drawers to put together and mount tonight so I put it all back in the Sys and went to work. After I was done, I decided to modify one of them, attacked it with the tablesaw and jigsaw and figured I'd put the sander through its paces cleaning up. Transformer first, to set under the MFT 3. It comes with a power cord, standard PVC coated with all it's associated kinks, looked to be fairly long and I didn't need that so I subbed a short cord I had lying around. Hooked the vac hose up to the Fein, screwed forever to get it mated to the sander, plugged it into the transformer, plugged the sander cord into it, checked the Abranet on the sander(120 grit), flipped the switch on the XFMR and hit the paddle on the sander: Nothing! Panic! Then I figured out I had to turn the sander on.... Once that was done I sanded the cut ends and edges of the drawer with ease, this thing is an absolute joy to work with! Fits right in the palm of your hand, practically weightless compared with any sander I've used, cuts fast and practically no dust. No "stiction" with the Fein, no need to cut back on suction power.

Set it down, grabbed a 180 disc to finish up and discovered that you really, really need to get in the habit of turning the thing off when you change discs: there ain't much of a spring under that palm lever. Changing discs involves laying the sander down upside-down, pulling off the disc and pressing on the new disc. Having the tool spring into life at 10,000 RPM at the last stage of the process is a bit disconcerting  [eek]. A stiffer spring for the palm lever would be welcome, IMO.

After finishing up with the drawers I decided to give the HD discs a try. I have a chunk of 8/4 roughsawn walnut leaned up in the corner acclimating so I slapped on the 40-grit disc and went at it hard, full RPM. After a couple minutes the last foot or so of the board was cleaned up, the sander was getting warm, nowhere near uncomfortable to hold. I leaned on it as hard as I could and never slowed it down. I don't know what they've got in that transformer box or inside the sander but it's STOUT! Switched over to the 180 disc(something I'd never do after a 40-grit roughing), another couple minutes and the board's smooth as the proverbial babies butt. Absolutely a-freaking-mazing!

Haven't worked with it long but it looks like this might just be the sander I've always wanted but never believed could be made. Pro: great power, great dust extraction, unbelievably light weight and handling for an electric sander. Con: First and foremost, the price. Once you get over that, the wimpy spring in the actuation lever, the seemingly endless twisting required to attach the hose, the indicator light on the transformer being on the opposite end from the switch.

Keep in mind these are first impressions, but on a 10 scale I'd have to give this baby a solid 9.  First "9" sander I've seen in thirty years....

Best,
Bill

 
Good review, Bill.  What other sanders have you worked with in the past?  I'm looking forward to trying one later this week.  Did I just say that I'm looking forward to sanding?

Oh, does anyone know if this sander is safe to use wet-sanding?
 
The Abranet HD discs they ship with the Ceros are insane.  I've never seen grit raised up with such as sharp edge.  Felt like I could scrape shavings off my fingernails.  I need to buy the "interface" pad for the Ceros, as I've heard that you can sand off the hooks on the sanding pad as use you higher Abranet grits.
 
congrats Bill, seems like it's a winner.

And yeah, the Abranet HD is awesome stuff and can't wait until the shop gets some supplies in.
 
Chris,

I've worked with a mishmash of sanders over the years, the old P-C jitterbugs, some assorted half-sheet orbitals, the P-C ROs in both standard and right-angle versions and various belt sanders. My first exposure to RO sanders was back in the '80s when the shop I worked at bought a couple of the Sioux  DA air sanders, we all thought we had died and gone to Heaven! I moved on and neglected to take the 7-hp shop compressor with me, so for the home shop I made do with the Makita 1/4 and 1/2-sheet orbitals. Worked with a couple of the P-C ROs in the 90's but never bought one. They were 'way beyond my Makitas in cutting power and finish but I couldn't afford to buy one, I was just a carpenter back then....

About ten years or so ago, I bought a black car and discovered the wonderful world of do-it-yourself detailing.  [wink] (I still have a bucket of pads to go with the P-C right-angle RO polisher I bought) It was a small step to realize it was also a sander and add the DC kit. I've briefly used(played with) a few others over the years, liked the Bosch 5" RO, a DeWalt or two and a couple of the P-C 5" small sanders, other than annoying Dan whenever he shows up at Highland I don't have any experience with the Festool sanders. Annoyed him some more last Saturday at the Woodworking Show, must have done a good job of it 'cause I left with a Kapex T-shirt  [big grin] and got to futz around with the RO 90 to boot!

But the Ceros brings back fond memories of the old Sioux DA: cuts like the devil, leaves no marks and weighs next to nothing(I'm exaggerating, at a bit under a couple of pounds it has enough heft to it to make sure you know you're holding it but it's not so heavy you hesitate  to turn it 90 degrees and sand the end of the drawer). It settles right into the hand like it was made to fit, it's a completely natural grip and sanding with it is as close to hand-sanding as you could imagine, just with more power.

I was finishing the bit holders for a drawer on my router table tonight, just a couple of 18" rips riddled with pencil marks and drill fuzz. With my P-C, I would have started with a 120 disc and finished with the 180, the Ceros took it all in stride with the 180, it took more time to get it out and hooked up than it did to sand.

Other than the minor annoyances(did I mention that the "Power On" LED on the transformer is at the opposite end from the power switch?  [huh] ) it seems to be a great tool and I have no regrets about the price. Durability and service are unknowns right now and I hope they stay that way, but we'll see....

Shokunin, be careful what you ask for... The interface pad is a foam pad for sanding contours. I think what you want is the pad protector. And if your HD discs are anything like the ones I got I wouldn't get my fingernails or any other body part anywhere near them!

Best to all,
Bill
 
Brice Burrell said:
Pictures man, pictures (video would be even better.) [big grin]

No video available(at least not until Nikon releases the replacement for the D700  [big grin] ) but here are some pics:

First couple are side-by-side with the Makita 4510 and the P-C 6":

Ceros-1.jpg
 
Ceros-2.jpg


the pad with enough holes to suit just about anybody's disc

Ceros-3.jpg


Everything(except the AC cord) packed into the Systainer:

Ceros-4.jpg


Couple shots of the transformer, the first next to a box of 6" discs for a size reference, the second where it lives under the MFT:

Ceros-5.jpg
 
Ceros-6.jpg


Lay the sander upside down and it has no problem pressing it's own lever:

Ceros-7.jpg


Last is a shot of the sander with a Norton 6-hole disc attached, I hope you can see that the holes in the pad are a good bit smaller than the disc. It scatters a little more dust than with the Abranet pad but the DC is very respectable with paper discs, a good bit better than the P-C could manage.

Ceros-8.jpg


That's about all I could manage tonight but just for you, Brice, a little old-fashioned home-made hand-tool p0Rn:

974667133_Ld3pj-L.jpg


974665180_JwhFJ-L.jpg


Enjoy! There's more where that came from ...  [wink]

Best,
Bill

 
billg71 said:
Shokunin, be careful what you ask for... The interface pad is a foam pad for sanding contours. I think what you want is the pad protector. And if your HD discs are anything like the ones I got I wouldn't get my fingernails or any other body part anywhere near them!

Bill, thanks for the info, I probably would have ordered the wrong pad!

Does anyone know if there are major differences between Abranet and Autonet discs?  People tell me ones for woodworking, ones for metal... yes, I see that on the website, but any REAL difference other than color?  The Autonet discs are much cheaper than the Abranet.
 
Interesting... found technical specs for each, and all look the same, other than color -- didn't check the list of available grits...

Grain: Aluminum oxide
Bonding: Resin over resin
Backing: Polyamide fabric
Coating: Closed

http://www.mirka-usa.com/abranet.html
http://www.mirka-usa.com/autonet.html

For a quick comparison,

Rubin:

Grit: Aluminum Oxide
Bonding: Synthetic Resin
Backing: Paper
Coating: Closed
Bonding Level: Closed

Brilliant 2:

Grit: Aluminum Oxide
Bonding: Synthetic Resin
Backing: Paper
Coating: Closed
Bonding Level: Open

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/abrasives_brochure.pdf

I suspect the differences in the Abranet / Autonet are probably in the things they aren't listing in their specs...
 
A quick look at the Autonet/Abranet links shows more grits available for the Abranet.

John
 
just to muddy the waters a little  [wink] I went and revisited my PC 390, also a low profile brushless ROS with a 3.5 amp motor. I tried the new abranet HD and other normal abranet with it and I have to say, results aren't that far off the Ceros. It obviously has more bulk and weight but given it's low price I think it's very close for those of us on a more restricted budget. Tomorrow I'm planning on replacing the pad with a Mirka version and removing it's pad brake. Then it will be as close to the 5" Ceros as it can get in operation, I think the speed range is also about the same and it's nice and smooth. This should increase it's usefulness with sanding sheets of all kinds and leave a cleaner finish. Tonights testing went very well, especially with the abranet HD, that's one nice product.

Thankfully the festool hose fits so I can give it a thorough going over.
 
Well I couldnt hold off. I now own a ceros 150   [wink]

Just had time to play with some boards in the garage that were stained and 3 coated with oil poly.

At first I thought something was wrong with mine because it kept shutting off under load?  still dont know why. It did it about 3 times then went away.

When it went away I could see just how awesome a sander the ceros really is! Holy cow! It can rough with the Rotex! And the way it feels in your hand is suberb! I could actually grasp it by the on/off button and control it with my thumb actuating the paddle. Very cool!

Yeah i was going to keep my rotex 150 but  now I have doubts. Sorry about this, but it could actually replace it. I will always be loyal to festool as they are great tools but my tingling wrists are saying, sell the rotex please!

I think the paper has alot to do with it. The abranet is awesome and the HD is rediculously awesome for levelling. I will have to wait until I get the Ceros on some floors before I make my call but man, The ceros and the s-paper are tought to beat.
I have never been a fan of any of the festool s-papers. Im sorry but I use top quality 3m and norton on my floor sanders and that paper rocks! So its tough for me to settle for any regular s-paper. I love the granat but cant get it locally as its back ordered in 150.

The pad is soooo flat and thin on the Ceros its def. going to take some learning. I feel like I have to tip the machine in order to get it to conform to the woods natural dips and dives. Think a softer pad will take care of that!

Initial opinion is this thing kills all other Ros's! Glad Mirka came out with this. It'll keep Festool on their feet and we all will reap the benfits of this competitiveness!!!

Ill get some pics and maybe a vid up soon!
Hey I was wondering if anyone uses theirs off of their auto start plug on their vacuums? Im thinking this might be why the sander kept shutting off? Wondering if its ok to plug the transformer into the auto start plug of the DC?
 
nehardwoodfloors said:
Well I couldnt hold off. I now own a ceros 150.....

Very cool. [thumbs up]

nehardwoodfloors said:
......Yeah i was going to keep my rotex 150 but  now I have doubts. Sorry about this, but it could actually replace it. I will always be loyal to festool as they are great tools but my tingling wrists are saying, sell the rotex please!

I think the paper has alot to do with it. The abranet is awesome and the HD is rediculously awesome for levelling..........

.......It'll keep Festool on their feet and we all will reap the benfits of this competitiveness!!!........

I hear you.  It's good that Festool has some serious competition in both sanders and abrasives now.

nehardwoodfloors said:
......The pad is soooo flat and thin on the Ceros its def. going to take some learning. I feel like I have to tip the machine in order to get it to conform to the woods natural dips and dives. Think a softer pad will take care of that!.........

This is where we differ in opinion.  I generally want a harder pad.  Another true test for the CEROS will be the pads, how will they hold up and will they stay flat.  Also, will replacement pads be readily available??

nehardwoodfloors said:
.....Hey I was wondering if anyone uses theirs off of their auto start plug on their vacuums? Im thinking this might be why the sander kept shutting off? Wondering if its ok to plug the transformer into the auto start plug of the DC?

This is something I was curious about too.

nehardwoodfloors said:
.....Ill get some pics and maybe a vid up soon!.....

I'd love to see a video but you'll have to sand all types of wood and maybe even metal too. [wink]
 
Ok I just played with it for a significant time.

It DOES work through the ct26 auto start outlet without any problems.

I like the softer pads so they conform to not-so-flat floorboards.

Through Mirka they have 4 pads so far.    5"    standard and soft    and 6" with standard and soft.

Plus you can use any 5/16th threaded ROS pad which includes the 3m lineup of pads.  They really wanted to make this thing compatable with other sand paper and pads. I think this is one of the strongest feature of the sander.
you can use 5 or 6" pads and any hole pattern paper!!! What more could you want?  [cool]

 
nehardwoodfloors said:
Well I couldnt hold off. I now own a ceros 150   [wink].......

At first I thought something was wrong with mine because it kept shutting off under load?  still dont know why. It did it about 3 times then went away.

Congrats! Have no idea about the random shutoffs, maybe too much pressure overloading the motor?

nehardwoodfloors said:
Hey I was wondering if anyone uses theirs off of their auto start plug on their vacuums? Im thinking this might be why the sander kept shutting off? Wondering if its ok to plug the transformer into the auto start plug of the DC?

Autostart works fein on my Fein(OK, really BAD pun  [embarassed] ). Only thing I've noticed is that if I plug in the xfmr with the vac on auto it'll start the vac. Guess there's inrush current in the power supply to kick off the vac.

If the pad's too hard(it's pretty stiff, about like my PC or any of the Festool Rotexes I've played with), you can get a softer pad (called an interface pad) or try the pad protector, it's just a velcro pad with hooks on one side and loops on the other. I posted links earlier in this thread.

Great little sander, the more I use it the more I like it.

Have fun with yours!  [big grin]

Bill
 
nehardwoodfloors said:
I like the softer pads so they conform to not-so-flat floorboards.

Through Mirka they have 4 pads so far.    5"    standard and soft    and 6" with standard and soft.

Are you talking about the hook-and-loop interface pad that goes between the stock pad and sanding disc, or a replacement pad?
 
Brice Burrell said:
Here's a guess, the Auto might have a lighter weight backing. 

In German woodworking forums Mirka AutoNet and AbraNet are considered identical products, but sold under different conditions in different markets.
AutoNet is much cheaper as it is mostly sold in the car painting/remodeling market where huge quantities are consumed.
Big advantage of Abra-/AutoNet is the dust extraction over the full surface.
...
I'm using the AutoNet with some grids for massive sanding of oily material like Teak doors -
a terrific product with impressive performance and universal dust removal capabilities.

kind regards, Mike
 
Flair Woodworks said:
nehardwoodfloors said:
I like the softer pads so they conform to not-so-flat floorboards.

Through Mirka they have 4 pads so far.    5"    standard and soft     and 6" with standard and soft.

Are you talking about the hook-and-loop interface pad that goes between the stock pad and sanding disc, or a replacement pad?
I have seen 4 backup pads. Meaning 2 replacement pads and 2 pads that are softer for contours.

Im going to do a little sample board review of the abranet and abranet HD. I think the scratch pattern on the HD (despite the grit rating) will be much more pronounced then the grit would suggest.
I want to do the test because I plan on ordering some and I need to know what these screens will look like with stain on them. Our stain methods are famous for easily revealing any scratch pattern. Where I normally would use a 3m 80 or 100 grit, im thinking in the abranet HD I might need 100 120.

Ill post pics asap.
 
I was checking out the Ceros @ Woodcraft the other day!  Very nice indeed!  I was also checking out the Abranet discs as well. I've been told they hold up very well...hence the cost plus the fact that less consumables will be sold!

B Cubed
 
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