The way to remove orange peels

[usatu]

Hi- I am still getting orange peels although I sand my sample pretty flat. While researching online, many youtube videos used wet sanding followed by compound then polish to remove orange peels in the car painting job. I am wondering whether the same method can be applied to orange peel on cabinet. The finish is going to be satin not high gloss.

Another way I found is to spray thin layer of lacquer thinner. Would that work on KA+?

All suggestions are welcome and really appreciated!

 

[tiralie]

Sand them away completely. If you see any shinny areas or dots you haven't sanded enough. If you need to use 120 grit paper. Reprime if you expose raw wood and respray the Kem Aqua.
Tim

 

[usatu]

Hi-Tim, thank you for replying.

How to avoid this issue completely? I sanded down a sample to be flat not shining dots and resprayed but still got slightly better orange peel. The wet surface doesn't look like glass smooth but little bumps across the whole board? Because material is too thick? I opened the air valve to max as fuji suggested and turned it down a little. Sprayed on the paper and make sure it is oval shape and doesn't drip.  Any steps for me to take to fine tune the results?

Best and cheers

 

[Alejandrom]

I only can tell you orange peel problems I have had finishing.

Material too thick - add more diluent
Very fast dry - add more diluent or use one that dries slower
Too many lacquer exit from the sprayer - reduce flow

These are typical problems

I hope this will help you.

Sorry for my English.

 

[tdwilli1]

Hi-Tim, thank you for replying.

How to avoid this issue completely? I sanded down a sample to be flat not shining dots and resprayed but still got slightly better orange peel. The wet surface doesn't look like glass smooth but little bumps across the whole board? Because material is too thick? I opened the air valve to max as fuji suggested and turned it down a little. Sprayed on the paper and make sure it is oval shape and doesn't drip.  Any steps for me to take to fine tune the results?

Best and cheers

I battled this for almost a year before coming up with a cure for my environment. I had tried new guns, less finish more finish, high air flow low air flow, almost everything. Finally I put extender in my finishes instead of diluting with water (I use WB products) and bingo - even flow, no orange peel, no need for sanding down flat to get rid of shiny spots or pits. My garage is at a pretty low humidity (less than 40%) so it seems it was drying too fast and not leveling out properly. Just a suggestion.

 

[usatu]

Thanks, I did add extender, maybe add more to 10%  [tongue] I will try again. My work light is pretty warm and close. Could that be a cause to dry too fast?

 

[tiralie]

How to avoid this issue completely? I sanded down a sample to be flat not shining dots and resprayed but still got slightly better orange peel.

Do this test. Stand your test panel up vertically and spray the Kem Aqua. Wait till it dries. If you got drips or runs you sprayed too much or it's too thin and you need to adjust so you get a nice coat but no drips.

The wet surface doesn't look like glass smooth but little bumps across the whole board?
Because material is too thick?

We would need a picture as this could you are spraying to little or too much.

My work light is pretty warm and close. Could that be a cause to dry too fast?

Is it a Tungsten, or incandescent vs. an LED light?  Kem Aqua flashes or dries very quickly and any excessive heat or direct sunlight will make it dry too fast so this could be a problem. I have found that distilled water up to 10% increases drying time and reduces striping in areas that are very warm.
Tim

 

[wptski]

Is it a Tungsten, or incandescent vs. an LED light?  Kem Aqua flashes or dries very quickly and any excessive heat or direct sunlight will make it dry too fast so this could be a problem. I have found that distilled water up to 10% increases drying time and reduces striping in areas that are very warm.
Tim

By adding 10% water you are thinning the material and that you'd think would do the opposite.

 

[tiralie]

By adding 10% water you are thinning the material and that you'd think would do the opposite.

Bill:
I read yur comment numerous tines and it's probably me, but I don't undersrand what you have written...please explain.

 

[wptski]

Bill:
I read yur comment numerous tines and it's probably me, but I don't undersrand what you have written...please explain.

How would adding 10% water slow drying time?  I did rethink this though!  I now think it would as there is more water that needs to evaporate and would take longer.

 

[usatu]

Sand them away completely. If you see any shinny areas or dots you haven't sanded enough. If you need to use 120 grit paper. Reprime if you expose raw wood and respray the Kem Aqua.
Tim

Hi, Tim,

What to do if exposed some of the raw wood. Do I have to start over with the whole thing or can just spray whole board or patch job? Which way is better? Thanks so much

 

[usatu]

Found this link and not sure whether will work on the cabinet. Maybe will give it a try later.
http://triumphbonneville.org/diy/how-to-correct-orange-peel-in-eastwood-rat-rod-satin-black-paint/

 

[tiralie]

How would adding 10% water slow drying time?  I did rethink this though!  I now think it would as there is more water that needs to evaporate and would take longer.

Exactly! It takes a lot more energy and/or time to evaporate water than an organic solvent. 
Tim

 

[tiralie]

Hi, Tim,

What to do if exposed some of the raw wood. Do I have to start over with the whole thing or can just spray whole board or patch job? Which way is better? Thanks so much

Re prime the whole board and respray.
You get better [wink] after you have done this a couple hundred times.
Tim

 

[usatu]

I finally got a less orange peel board. I thin the material little bit more and put on between 2 and 3 mils. In the beginning， it still looks wavy after 1 hr or so on much better. I found that if I get slightly thicker mils，bubbles appears more. How do I balance between thickness and flow？ Does KA+ need to be @ 3mils to flow and flat？So hard to twix all these variables.

Next step is sand more and respray ？Should I apply thicker layer and thin more？How to find what causes it？

Thanks for your wonderdul help.

 

[tiralie]

I finally got a less orange peel board. I thin the material little bit more and put on between 2 and 3 mils.

Your first panel looks good to me. [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] what do you think?

I thin the material little bit more and put on between 2 and 3 mils.

How much did you thin?

How do I balance between thickness and flow？ So hard to twix all these variables.

That is the trick of spraying water bourne paint.

Does KA+ need to be @ 3mils to flow and flat？

Do what works, don't worry so much about mils.

Next step is sand more and respray ？
Should I apply thicker layer and thin more？

I don't understand? Are you referring to a second coat? The first pic you showed looks good to me.

How to find what causes it？

You might want to rebuild your gun like [member=24938]JCLP[/member].
Tim

 

[wptski]

Your first panel looks good to me. [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] what do you think?

Tim

I thought so too!

 

[tjbnwi]

First panel does look good. I've had KA+ take a month to tighten completely. Temp and humidity play a big role in how these products cure. After awhile you know if the pieces were sprayed properly prior to it reaching full cure.

Don't feel bad about the issues you're having. I know a finisher in Denver, which is a high desert, he can't get KA+ to apply/lay down properly. I went out there and had no issues spraying it, used his equipment.

You're missing a few variables in your thickness, flow question as it applies to application. Speed and distance play a big roll. You can have the flow slightly off and make up for it with distance and speed and vise versa. Distance has a big effect on rebound and squinty on the target. You need to understand and control the interaction of all 4 variables to get a great finish.

Use this for your reducer, do not go over 10%;
https://generalfinishes.com/profess...es-miscellaneous/enduro-extender#.WIaqELGZM0o

I buy it by the gallon.

Tom

 

[usatu]

Dear experts- You are so nice and helpful! Can't thank you all enough. The first picture does look fine in computer but the problem is when I put it up under the light, I still can see orange peels. Actually 1st and 4th picture is the same board taken under different lights and directions. Drive me crazy! I will keep sanding and retry for all the up cabinet doors.

What's the right viscosity after thinning the product? Today I just guesstimate it.

When things are right, do you see the paint flows like glass top (very few waves/orange peels) in a few minutes or after a while (when it is dried)? I still don't get it.

Best and cheers

 

[usatu]

I used enduro extender to thin, but it is pretty expensive. 16fl oz is $11.