Thinking of buying my first Festool product - dust extractor

[GrumpyChap]

Hi,

I am a DIY home user in the UK mainly on Metabo (mitre/track saws, drills) and Milwaukee (router, jigsaw) platform and as the title suggests, I am looking at investing in my first Festool product, being a dust extractor.

Toying with the idea of getting a Metabo dust extractor but there are not many reviews/videos around other than short clips for me to make an informed decision which has led me to Festool since there seems to be rave reviews about very little dust after using a Festool extractor. I'm also seriously considering a Festool sander but that's separate issue for now.

Main use for the extractor at the moment will be home renovation such as drywall and other sanding but I also like to dabble in making other woodworking projects when time permits e.g. mostly MDF and other softwoods.

I've already done a little research based on previous threads I've come across but just wanted to clarify a few points to ensure I'm up to date - I am currently leaning towards the Cleantec CTL Mini extractor.

1. I've read that there is no difference between L class and M class extractors other than the alarm on the M class - is this still true? Could I get away with the L class extractor or should I really go for M class based on my expected uses?

2. CTL Mini states Bluetooth compatibility, do I need to purchase anything else to make it work for either festool/non-festool products?

3. Is it recommended to use Festool branded bags or can I get away with third party versions (if there are any)?

4. Are the cordless versions worth upgrading to? Looking at the specs for cordless mini they are slightly less powerful than the corded version so I'm wondering if I will materially lose that almost dustless environment, particularly sanding walls or worktops. Also concerned about runtime though the Festool website suggests I may be ok on either 4ah/8ah batteries for my usage.

thanks in advance

 

[Willy Eckerslike]

1.  You'll be fine with L Class for home use as they're the same filters and bags.  You won't be allowed to use it on a construction site in the UK though.
2.  You will need to buy the Bluetooth remote if you don't want to reach for the switch every time.  Festool tools with Bluetooth enabled batteries can be set to start the extractor when you start the tool.  The extractor will run on for a few seconds once you stop to empty the hose of dust.
3.  I use the proprietary bags.  They work out around £3-5 each but there's usually an offer on somewhere - Amazon warehouse or eBay discount days are worth a look.  They work really well and my filter still looks like new.  Depending on what you're doing they can take a while to fill and they pack the dust in so the bag comes out like a brick. There are reusable versions around - knock offs and genuine ones.
4.  No.  I have a cordless systainer version but that's for trade work drilling a couple of holes in someone's lounge without having to unplug their tv and router to get at a spare socket.  Batteries don't last long but they don't have to for the use I put them to.  You will be much better off with a mains 240v (unless you're going to do site work where you'll need 110v (or battery)).  You can also plug your mains powered tool into the extractor to provide on/off features as described above.

I've used a number of extractors over the years for all manner of work.  The very best was a Nilfisk.  That was until I bought my first Festool one.  I now have four.

 

[GrumpyChap]

Cheers for the response Willy, no chance of me doing site work so I think I will take the plunge, although I noticed the midi version is only £50 more which I am tempted to take over the mini. Probably head down to my local Axminster shop and have a proper look before making the final decision.

 

[Willy Eckerslike]

Cheers for the response Willy, no chance of me doing site work so I think I will take the plunge, although I noticed the midi version is only £50 more which I am tempted to take over the mini. Probably head down to my local Axminster shop and have a proper look before making the final decision.

My nearest Axminster is over an hour's drive so I'd just shell out the £50 and get the bigger version.

 

[HighlandMarine]

Cheers for the response Willy, no chance of me doing site work so I think I will take the plunge, although I noticed the midi version is only £50 more which I am tempted to take over the mini. Probably head down to my local Axminster shop and have a proper look before making the final decision.

240v CTL MIDI based on what you’ve said, or a CTL26 if you think you might ever want to run the boom arm setup in the future. Personally, I prefer the 26 for cutting and making chips, (also using the boom arm in the shop) and the midi for sanding, drilling, etc. CTC sys for quick osc cuts on site.

 

[GrumpyChap]

Cheers for the response Willy, no chance of me doing site work so I think I will take the plunge, although I noticed the midi version is only £50 more which I am tempted to take over the mini. Probably head down to my local Axminster shop and have a proper look before making the final decision.

240v CTL MIDI based on what you’ve said, or a CTL26 if you think you might ever want to run the boom arm setup in the future. Personally, I prefer the 26 for cutting and making chips, (also using the boom arm in the shop) and the midi for sanding, drilling, etc. CTC sys for quick osc cuts on site.

Sorry, only just seen your response. I ended up going with the CTL Midi (and the bluetooth adaptor) as I did look at the CTL26 but couldn't justify the jump in price. I ended up purchasing the Metabo SXE450 Turbotec at the same time and have since used them both a few times already and very pleased with the dust collection on the Midi.

Still very much considering a Festool sander but now looking at the RO90 since I have the Metabo.. although I also had a play around with the DF500/700 so I'm highly tempted to pick one of these up instead.

Problem is I have no workshop or proper shed at the moment so I am having to store tools in the loft until I can make space.. and try to justify to the missus why I need one rather than I would like one. Don't think I need either RO90 or the Domino at this stage but I think I would definitely want the domino as I can see the several future uses for it although I just don't know when I will get round to those uses!

No doubt I may be posting in the future on these subjects for guidance.

 

[mino]

Domino.

Then upgrade the sander to ETS EC 125/3 with 150 pads before anything else.

The sooner you get a Festool (or Mirka) sander, the better. Same with the DOMINO.

ADD:
The point being, invest to top level tools where you use it often (primary sander, drill, vac), save on where you use it rarely (RO 90).

 

[GrumpyChap]

Cheers for the suggestions Mino, I am leaning towards the domino first. My only dilemma is that the 700 is only £100 more than the 500 unless I get the 500 set with accessories which makes it £50 more. I understand the 700 is primarily used for larger builds in addition to its weight but I was thinking of getting the 700 with the adaptor to allow me to make the smaller domino cuts to cover all bases given the price - any thoughts?

As for the sander, noted on the RO90 and the ETS EC125/3. In the meantime I'm thinking of purchasing the Jetstream backing and interface pads to go with the Metabo as I have noticed my local dealer is selling M8 versions rather and I think the Metabo has an M8 thread.

 

[luvmytoolz]

They're both fantastic, but having both Domino's, if I had to choose the 700 would be the easy choice for me as I tend to do panels and thick doors and the large dominos here are a godsend.

I personally find it much better ergonomically to handle and use than the 500, and the despite the weight the handle design makes it extremely easy to control. I find I mainly use the 500 for 4mm dominos for box joinery, and on occasion the 6mm for thinner panel/doors.

 

[mino]

...
I personally find it much better ergonomically to handle and use than the 500, and the despite the weight the handle design makes it extremely easy to control. I find I mainly use the 500 for 4mm dominos for box joinery, and on occasion the 6mm for thinner panel/doors.

Genuine question:
Would you say this also for thin stock, like with the 4 and 5 mm dominoes, or assuming 6+ mm ones mostly ?

 

[Coen]

...
I personally find it much better ergonomically to handle and use than the 500, and the despite the weight the handle design makes it extremely easy to control. I find I mainly use the 500 for 4mm dominos for box joinery, and on occasion the 6mm for thinner panel/doors.

Genuine question:
Would you say this also for thin stock, like with the 4 and 5 mm dominoes, or assuming 6+ mm ones mostly ?

4, 5 and 6mm DF700 cutters are only available 3rd party or by using a (3rd party) adapter. Extrapolating from the info in [member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] 's post, I don't think he owns those.

I do own a DF500. I did eye the 700 recently, for DIY making window frames.

 

[luvmytoolz]

...
I personally find it much better ergonomically to handle and use than the 500, and the despite the weight the handle design makes it extremely easy to control. I find I mainly use the 500 for 4mm dominos for box joinery, and on occasion the 6mm for thinner panel/doors.

Genuine question:
Would you say this also for thin stock, like with the 4 and 5 mm dominoes, or assuming 6+ mm ones mostly ?

4, 5 and 6mm DF700 cutters are only available 3rd party or by using a (3rd party) adapter. Extrapolating from the info in [member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] 's post, I don't think he owns those.

I do own a DF500. I did eye the 700 recently, for DIY making window frames.

That's correct Coen, I don't have the adaptor as I have both models.

 

[luvmytoolz]

...
I personally find it much better ergonomically to handle and use than the 500, and the despite the weight the handle design makes it extremely easy to control. I find I mainly use the 500 for 4mm dominos for box joinery, and on occasion the 6mm for thinner panel/doors.

Genuine question:
Would you say this also for thin stock, like with the 4 and 5 mm dominoes, or assuming 6+ mm ones mostly ?

The 4mm dominos are really useful and  fantastic for thin stock, even for aligning and attaching door arch's to the jambs. I just think the 500 is a bit limiting though if you have to pick only one.

 

[mino]

The 4mm dominos are really useful and  fantastic for thin stock, even for aligning and attaching door arch's to the jambs. I just think the 500 is a bit limiting though if you have to pick only one.

Thanks.
I am not really concerned about the capability range.

So, in general, were I to phrase it like this:
"You see the 700 as "OK" for fine stock (even) with 4 mm dominoes while you see it as the better option from 6 (8?) mm and up."

Would that fit ?
...
What I am looking at is the practical aspect of the DF 700 handling versus the DF 500 handling for the jobs which the 500 can do. Hence the Q ref the smaller dominoes where I expect the biggest impact of the 700 size/weight.

I have big hands, so weight - per se - is not a concern. But it affecting dexterity and the forces applied to the stock by the tool (so it does not bend under the tool weight etc.) are still a concern. Also, for mid-panel dominoes the 700 seems a bit awkward when usign it vertically in the middle of the pannel .. ?

 

[ChuckM]

Is it an option available for you to try out both models at a retailer before making your decision?

Whether it's a power tool or a hand tool, I find it extremely helpful to actually handle it and make a few cuts before forming a view. My local retailer is set up for customers to try out anything on display (Festool, SawStop, Rikon and all hand tools (planes, saws, etc.)), including providing scraps for test cuts.

 

[Hipplewm]

Although the 700 CAN do down to 4mm, that behemoth on thin strips of door frame would be a nightmare to keep straight (just thinking out loud here, haven't actually tried it)

I bought a 500 and knew that 90% of my joints would be 1" or thinner. 

I just made my countertops for my pantry - 1.5" think butcher block style and made them 12" wide to allow for them to run thru the planer and drum sander after glue up, before joining them.  I just used a 10mm as it was more alignment than structure as they will be supported by the base cabinet.

However I did mock up using dual 10mm dominos 75mm - thick - rules of thirds is 25mm.  I had no problem fitting them and it looked fine, I just did it to "see" as this would have been prime for a 700 - but in the end I didn't miss not having a 700 and even though the 500 isn't "light" the 700 is def "HEAVY"

 

[mino]

Is it an option available for you to try out both models at a retailer before making your decision?

Whether it's a power tool or a hand tool, I find it extremely helpful to actually handle it and make a few cuts before forming a view. My local retailer is set up for customers to try out anything on display (Festool, SawStop, Rikon and all hand tools (planes, saws, etc.)), including providing scraps for test cuts.

I did hold both in hand and had the 500 on rental couple times. But just holding something in hand and doing a (couple) projects in own shop are not the same.

The 500 sure is more nimble. But how much is this a concern ? That is very hard to judge without some real experience with the tool.

Hence the query to someone who actually uses the tool on projects for some time ..

 

[ChuckM]

Of course, doing some test runs at the store is never the same as using a tool for a period of time, and my advice on test runs is for those who never have had a chance to handle it, and try to decide something based on what others feel about it.

I have used my DF500 since 2013 (a couple more years before that but it didn't belong to me), and have used it in about 16 projects (yes, I'm a very prolific hobby woodworker) from chairs to tables to cabinets/credenza to shelves to everything in between. I have used the DF700 in only two (non-personal) projects, and so I claim no expertise in it, unlike the DF500. Between the two, as you can tell, if there's only one that I can have -- AND USED 99% of the time -- the DF500 is my choice. So far, I haven't done any one single project that I needed the DF700. I use twin and/or double tenons where called for. I do a lot of precision work and so small is what I prefer for control and fine tuning/positioning.

That said, if your goal is to be all-inclusive, trying to cover every possibility even though it may not count for 1% of what you eventually will do, the DF700 plus the third-party adapter will be the obvious choice. A lady fellow woodworker I've worked with belongs to that group, and owns a DF700, but so far she has never done anything that requires dominoes larger than the 10mm.

[attachimg=2]

Is weight an issue? Absolutely if you're doing that many dominoes as I do (I buy dominoes by the bulk packs), but then I'm only average in build and older! [tongue]  Every Festool rep. at my local retailer told me the same thing about the weight of the DF700 relative to the DF500 -- they do demos whenever asked, and they would rather demo with the DF500 (their words). If you have tried both and didn't find the difference in weight an issue, then you could exclude that as a factor.

 

[Coen]

You buy them in bulk for one and a quarter project per year? Must be sizeable projects then.

 

[ChuckM]

The bulk packs don't have tons of dominoes as you may think, depending on the size: The 8mm has only 600 pieces, and even fewer for the 10mm. The project in the first pic alone used up more than 70 nos of 8mm dominoes. The other one, in the second pic, used up lots of 6mm just for the top panel, some more for the legs and some for the buttons -- 150?

The credenza, not shown, used up even more of the 6mm because there're 4 panels, two doors, shelves and a stand.

And I'm already onto my second pack of 4mm dominoes.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...r-festool-domino-joining-system?item=ZA495661