Ticking off my local dealer

Its a shame we cant use our local dealers mine does not want my business, and so I buy all my festools from slingers.they want your business and provide a good service.
 
What I don't understand is that if I buy something from an on-line dealer and he doesn't have it in stock, he orders it from Lebanon and they drop ship it to me the next day.  It seems like brick and mortar dealers order once a week and have it shipped to the store and then call you to come get it (if they remember).  Seems like the b&m dealers could be a little more proactive here.
 
I wish in uk we was able to avoid paying tax on festool tools at 20% is a hard hitter!  I hate it when I call up my dealer and I ask how much for this and that and he gives me a price and then ask is it plus vat he then says YES I'm like DAM IT! So I ask him to tell me what it is inlcuding and when it's like £1000 already £200 for vat is like OMG I could buy a CXS for that!

Jmb
 
atogrf1 said:
I thought that was a fair question, so I told him the truth.  I told him that I would LOVE to give him my business, but living here in Chicago, I have to pay tax for the tools, and it was hard for me to justify dropping an extra $40-$75 on tax, when I can order it online and save that money for lumber.
His reply was, "I don't blame you.  We get that a lot actually.  If it wasn't for that, we could probably sell twice as many tools as we do now.".
I thought that was a crying shame.  Now, they may even consider discontinuing the line because they can't stay competitive.  And, we all know, the people that use Festool are pretty shrewd and know about the whole "tax thing".
Even my local Woodcraft store mentions that it hurts their business.

So, in relaying this story to you, I ask:
Why doesn't Festool have something like a "One Day Only" or "This Weekend Only" sale where local people can purchase Festool from their local distributor and have a coupon or something that is equivalent to the local tax rate?  This would get the people IN the stores and help the vendors and maybe buy some wood in the process, OR the other way around, people buying the wood may be temped to purchase a Festool when they can save the tax for that day/weekend only.  Sounds like it would be a win/win to me.  Especially in this economy.
Click to expand...

I support you in this idea.  However, I want to take it one step farther.

When an online dealer sells us a tool, they charge us list price.  But the dealer pays the shipping cost.
When a brick and mortar dealer sells us a tool, they charge us list price.  But then they add tax to the price, raising the cost.

If the online dealer can sell the tool at list price and absorb the shipping cost, then the brick and mortar dealer should be able to sell the tool at list price and absorb the tax cost. 

In my opinion, this will level the playing field and dealers would truly compete on service, and not price.
 
Maybe I'm the exception, but I buy both locally and online, thus supporting both type of retailers.  Yes it's nice to save on sale taxes and yes a lot of brick and mortar stores are suffering from Internet sales, but I believe that market forces will eventually decide who survives.  I'm not going to weigh in on the question of taxes, too political for my tastes and this forum (IMHO), other than to say I see value in my local taxes (my brother worked for city government for years and taught me about how tax dollars are spent).

I do like to support all dealers who provide not only products I use and enjoy, but also provide good service.  As such I will frequent those dealers who provide both and not support those who don't, again market forces will take care of them.  For the record I have a significant investment in Festool (it's not an addiction, it's a lifestyle) and will continue to make investments in the product line.  Now if I could just find room and some spare change for that next tool...
 
Kodi,

The local dealers MUST charge and remit sales tax and since they aren't allowed to discount Festool, you can't get that to work, unless of course you're clergy.
 
Ken Nagrod said:
Kodi,

The local dealers MUST charge and remit sales tax and since they aren't allowed to discount Festool, you can't get that to work, unless of course you're clergy.
Click to expand...

I'm implying that Festool changed their policy to allow them to discount in an amount equivalent to the tax rate.
 
Amazon is currently in litigation with a few states, Colorado being one of them, to provide both the state and the consumer with a total value of product purchased online every year.  I think we will be seeing the end of the tax free online purchases in the next 5 years as states wise up and find ways to collect on what has become a very large revenue stream.

I support local B&M stores when I can, but also order quite a bit online.  As my nearest Festool dealer is 30 minutes away and I can order online through Amazon and get next day shipping for $3.99 it just makes sense to save the money( tax AND gas) and the time.  I tried to get a Mirka Ceros through my local Woodcraft, but they couldn't order it for a almost a week, plus the shipping time, plus the 1 hour drive(each way) and gas, plus the tax.  A few clicks on Amazon and I had it 3 days later,  pretty much a no brainer. 

I think now that Festool has opened up their business to Amazon and other online mega dealers it can't make it any easier for anyone to keep the business.  It's hard to compete on a skewed playing field when you are not able to adjust your price to stay competitive.
 
Kevin Stricker said:
I think now that Festool has opened up their business to Amazon and other online mega dealers it can't make it any easier for anyone to keep the business.  It's hard to compete on a skewed playing field when you are not able to adjust your price to stay competitive.
Click to expand...

The Festool products for sale on Amazon are not being sold by Amazon, but by dealers selling through Amazon. And ordering through Amazon will not make the price any different than going to that same dealers website, barring possible Tax issues.

Seth
 
I'm not sayin' I occasionally pay the governor and buy from one of three local dealers' inventory because everything will be safely tucked away before SHMBO gets back in town. Juss sayin'.

Anybody else in that boat?  Room in the budget, butt zero wifely understanding.
 
For some of us old woodworkers, what we are seeing is a change.
I remember when the internet was a big 48 inch wide catalog on the dealers desk,
and they knew you by name.
We got out of the stone age because we found better ways, not because we ran out of rocks.
as a dealer i understand this, as a consumer i understand this as well.
I would not hesitate about asking another dealer for advice or giving advice as well, or sending customers to an on line dealer ,someone i know and can trust- like the ones i have met here.
Allen
 
Kevin Stricker said:
I think now that Festool has opened up their business to Amazon and other online mega dealers it can't make it any easier for anyone to keep the business.  It's hard to compete on a skewed playing field when you are not able to adjust your price to stay competitive.
Click to expand...

I had a conversation with my dealer about this when I bought my MFT/3.  He told me that he has to rely on customer service to stay competitive when it comes to Festool, because he cannot compete with the price from Amazon and other websites not charging taxes or shipping alot of times.  I know he understands this and I am happy to buy from him, even if I have to pay taxes.   My problem is that his employees are still stuck in the stoneage.  I was trying to order something from them and they took forever to figure out how to find it online on the Festool site and then they said it would be a few weeks to get it in. I know I can get it in a few days if I ordered online, so why would I order it from them and pay more and wait longer to get it?  I told the owner that I would buy things from him if he has them, but it does not make sense to order from him.  

Regardless of what the reason is, B&M places need to adapt or they are done.  Customer service, competitive prices, and being well stocked are all essential to beating the competitors that are only online. I can overlook some of these, but when I show up to buy something and it will cost more and will take a few weeks to order, no amount of customer service is going to beat the other two. You need at least two out of the three to get a sale.
 
I personally don't think there is anything unique to Festool on this issue and I don't see why Festool should change their practices.  Brick and mortar stores have difficulty competing on price for a wide range of goods.  I can think of plenty of items which are cheaper online.  Policy changes which selectively effect the price at B&M stores could put the online guys at a disadvantage. 

The truth is, B&M outlets have to add value in other ways: convenience, customer service, community  involvement, education, etc...

I'm a big believer in small, local business and I knowingly pay more to support some of them.  However, it is a two way street.  The local business must prove its worth to me.  If I believe a local business adds value I will pay to support them.  If they do not add value I buy online.  For my Festool purchases this was easy because there is no local dealer.  I bought online from one of the vendors who posts here and had a positive experience.  It would be hard for a B&M seller to be more available or responsive, honestly. 

At the end of the day, the question is would you pay an extra $50 to do your part to keep the local business around??? Probably this depends on the individual business.

 
I have often seen a customer come in and touch, feel, and ask questions about a tool/product, but order online since the sales tax and free shipping can be substantial.  But Festool buyers know I have no control over price. So I just do my best and treat him like he would buy it from me anyway.
I wish I could keep his money in the store, but know if I treat him well, and answer his questions, when he needs that box of sandpaper etc. he will come in to buy it.

 
Brice Burrell said:
It's a nice idea but who should take the hit, Festool or the dealer?  That percentage likely represents a nice chunk of the profit. 

I think the guys that want to put there hands on the tools before they buy should be willing to pay for that convenience.   
Click to expand...

I would turn that around and say that if FestoolUSA wants to expand sales (i.e. dealers) they should be willing to offset brick & mortar dealer costs.  There are tons of woodworkers that don't buy on the internet or buy tools they don't touch & feel and also want local dealer support.
That is obviously my uninformed opinion, FestoolUSA has without a doubt done their homework on market research and knows how to reach the most potential customers.
 
Interesting thread.  I think Festool is somewhat unique here.  Many of their products (parallel guides, mfs, for example) are not obvious. IfWhen the Carvex comes out, I don't know whether I would prefer the d-handle or the barrel handle.  A B&M store can help with that.  I think a larger and more informed brick and mortar presence would do Festool a world of good and probably we worth some degree of subsidy or other assistance.

Now that my local woodcraft has gone out of business the nearest b&m is in Denver, a 400+ mile drive.

If nothing else, Festool could try something other companies have done.  For instance, in June we will rebate your sales tax.  See if it makes a difference....
 
Since I purchased my first Festool almost 4 years ago, I have move twice. There are NO Festool dealers that are truly convenient to me. I live in the woods, and I am really quite OK with that.

My first purchase was from a (New Hampshire) Rockler (franchised?) store. At the time of that purchase I felt like I would have gotten better 'service' if I went in there to buy a $4 bottle of glue1. No matter, I needed the tools (TS75 & CT33). There were a few other Festool items I wished to purchase at that time that were not in stock.2 I was told "we can order them". But they were completely disinterested in drop-shipping to my door. I was quite simply  not interested in that.3

Not long thereafter I had some more Festool accessories I wanted to buy and happened to be in the vicinity of a (Massachusetts) Woodcraft store. Again, I felt like I would have gotten better 'service' if I went in there to buy a $4 bottle of glue1. I bought all the accessories that I both wanted and were in stock. Neither my list nor my wallet were exhausted. I asked about the remainder and was told "we can order them"2. But they were completely disinterested in drop-shipping to my door. Again, I was quite simply not interested3.

Some time rolls on and I eventually wanted to buy more wares. I happened to be near a (different, Massachusetts) Rockler, so off I go. The Festool area of the store was disappointingly small with a LOT of holes on the shelves from where stuff used to be4. My experience from my prior 2 'Festool shopping experiences' told me that I should go look at goofy stuff first (and had about $500 worth of stuff piled up on the counter). This way I could actually garner the attention of an employee, THEN drag him off to the stuff I actually came there to buy. Well that half worked. Too bad/thankfully I wasn't shopping for a jig saw. I appeared that the jig saw was the employee knew anything about. After making several attempts to hook me on a jig saw, I finally told the guy that if spoke the words 'jig saw' again that 'not only would I not buy the router that I came for, but I would not buy the stuff on the counter either'. In short I was pissed off. He laughed, apologized (for that and not having some products in stock), and set me up with what I wanted5. Eventually I left the store happy, although I did return within the 30 days to exchange the OF1010 for the OF1400, which was rather painless other than I could not buy certain accessories for it which were out of stock....... (see above paragraphs).

Last summer I has some extra cash and decided it was time to buy a T15+3. So off to a 'new' (New Hampshire) dealer'. They were very helpful, and where his/their knowledge base fell short, there was no B.S.-ing about it. A simple, "sorry, I don't know" as oppose to "have you seen the jig saw". There was some confusion regarding who did the tool warranty registration, which got cleared up in the store and made it to a thread here so Shane could do a corporate follow up. There were a couple of accessories that I also wanted to see, like the countersinking drill bits, but were............ yeah, you guessed it,..... not in stock.  I was told "we can order them" and they were completely willing to drop-shipping to my door.

  • 1.
I do not expect a sales staff to drop what that are doing because they see me trolling for Festool. However it does not sit well with me when I am avoided because of it!
  • 2.
For me accessories/consumables fall into 2 categories. I need them NOW, or I want them because I am there (NOW). Not having them in stock means you are not selling them to me TODAY (if ever). Additionally, I am fully capable of ordering something online all by my self and guess what?! It will be shipped directly to my door!
  • 3.
Festool sales/pricing is based on service. An unwillingness to drop ship to my door is not doing me a service. I am sure the list of excuses is long and strong, but quite honestly & simply, I don't care.
  • 4.
If your display looks like an inventory close-out event, I probably wont count on you in the future.
  • 5.
 I would think that the average Festool (purchaser, as opposed to shopper) does not need to be sold on anything about Festool. If we came to the store to buy, the sales work has already been done! DON'T SELL ME, help me. That difference is HUGE!
[/list]

Given a reasonable choice, I will always choose to keep my money as close to my current zip code as possible. It plays well with my rationale of 'charity starts at home'.

I have a friend that is involved with an online marketing company (Market America) who told me that Festool was in his 'catalog'. Following with the above rationale I checked it out. Then I broke the news to him. Not just "no" but "HELL NO". My rationale being, why would I drop several hundy to buy a tool "from you", who brokered it for Rockler, who will probably not have it in stock and have to order it (while I wait) when I can just order it from a 'legitimate' on-line dealer (usually shipped for free) and eliminate potentially several "middle-men", know instantly when I will have it and in the unlikely event that I have a problem, I can get him on the phone with legitimate service? "Sorry dude, but I'll buy my vitamins from you, OK?"

I made note here as to whether I was in Massachussetts (originally 5%, now 6.25% sales tax) or New Hampshire (tax free). To me sales tax is little more a convenience fee. If it is convenient for me to buy the tool in MA, I will. If not, I won't. Will I drive down to MA to buy a Kapex when the time comes? Surely not. Will I buy one in MA, because I am in MA on the day that I need one? Absolutely! Especially with today's gas prices!

The B&M guys need to get a handle on this. I now call ahead. If it is in stock, great! If not, sorry.
If I am standing in the store, and you ain't got it and won't drop ship it, I know an online guy that is open 24/7/365 that will.
 
Harry I agree!

Especailly the part where your dealer has to order a tool or consumables for you to come back another day!  It's the main reason why I go with Rexycrystals over the Internet/phone cus my local dealer never has any festool in stock and rexy gets it to my front door quicker than my local dealer can get it into his store for me then to come and pick it up! 

The most annoying thing is he takes my mobile number but he never rings me!  So I go in and check to see if hes got it and he will say no! I'll say call me yeah? So a week later I go back and say have you got it he will say yes I say when has it come in he will say 3 days ago I'm like thinking why did you not call me? Really annoying! 

The thing is if I have a problem it's quicker for me or rexy to sort it out than my local dealer as well so all round I'm better of buying over the phone.

Jmb
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

onocoffee
Festool Experience - Joinery DF500
Replies
0
Views
386
onocoffee
onocoffee
onocoffee
What are your thoughts on Used Festool Valuation?
Replies
14
Views
795
Tom the Remodeler
Tom the Remodeler
I
How Can a Young Festool Dealer Increase Awareness???
Replies
11
Views
896
Packard
P
onocoffee
Proper Method for Sealing Cut Lumber
Replies
2
Views
206
jayco
J
H
Festool Fake Sites
Replies
6
Views
1K
AtlasJeff
A
Back
Top