To all Festool newbies who already have a Shop-vac

[Scott B.]

You're being judged on the quality of your feedback and how many spray guns you own or have worked with, giving Festool all the details of your experiences. 
[/quote]

[eek] Zoinks!

If this is the criteria, I am going to actually have a shot at this thing!! I'm so filling it out right now...

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Yeah, you can use a shop vac, but why????  Any cost savings I might have realized went away with the need to do a thorough cleaning of the shop with a respirator and a lot of my time.

And yeah, I know, some shop vac filters have a 'locking mechanism', so did this one, but gosh its 5 years old, can't expect it to still work.  [tongue] [sad] In my opinion, shop vac and its clones are bottom feeders.  Not worth buying for serious work.

Oh please....shop vacs serve lots of purposes, mostly cleaning up crap I choose not to vac with my expensive dust extractors and equally expensive bags.  They also do a fine job at dust extraction on many tools. My Kapex way hooked up to my big Rigid for over a year with extraction that at least equalled the CT 22 that now has that job.  Btw if you take off the fitting at the end of most Rigid hoses it has a perfect friction fit to the Kapex and HL850.

 

[Kev]

I feel the general consensus here isn't that Festool doesn't do anything you couldn't ultimately achieve in some way with another brand of tool. Even the Domino, being somewhat unique, has alternatives.

The thing for me is that Festool always makes it better - either quieter, cleaner, simpler and/or quicker. Sometimes it would also make it cheaper (total cost of time,material and equipment included)

Man made some pretty nice things before the power tool ... but not the common man  [big grin]

 

[semenza]

I start to think those American shop vacs must be really loud buggers. I mean, I don't think my CT 26 is quiet at all, I can't stand its noise. Same for the old 22 I had. The CT Mini is a bit more bearable but I still prefer to use hearing protection with any vac and power tool I use. And even with my mufflers on, I still think they're noisy, but fortunately it's now reduced from "excruciating" to "bearable".

Yup, my Craftsman is like a howling banshee....... wait a second. Alex go open your window, I'll turn mine on so you can hear it.  [blink]
,

Seth

 

[Scott B.]

Our Festool extractors suck. Our others blow.

 

[Sean.M]

Interesting thread, I can see making the normal shop vac work for awhile but by the time you invest in a Festool hose and make all these conversions to be able to adjust the suction and find a way to alter the decimal level it seems with the labor and costs one could just go for a mini.

 

[EWTHeckman]

Yup, my Craftsman is like a howling banshee....... wait a second. Alex go open your window, I'll turn mine on so you can hear it.  [blink]

Mine too. If we time it right, we can make the entire continent deaf.  [eek]

Yes, you can "make do" with your existing shop vac. In fact, you probably have for years. I did.

After I got my CT 26, I wound up kicking myself over waiting so long. I had set up a Dust Deputy on a 5 gallon bucket to deal with one of the major flaws of my shop vac: a frequently clogged filter. It worked pretty nicely.

But when I tested the Dust Deputy setup with the CT 26, it easily made the bucket collapse with only a partial blockage of the hose. It is simply that much more powerful.

It's also significantly quieter than my shop vac. With my old Craftsman I had to use hearing protection for using the vac by itself. On the other hand, even at full power, the CT 26 is quieter than our household Hoover Windtunnel. This difference does add up in hassle and comfort differences.

Then there's the ability to control suction, which makes working with a sander much nicer.

The ability of the vac to turn itself on and off when you turn the tool on and off is also a big hassle saver.

Just emptying the thing is tremendously easier. The bag clicks in and out so easily (but securely) that I initially thought it was broken. When I open the CT 26, I'm not presented with a fog of dust jumping out at me (half of which is clumped in the filter just waiting to fall off).

Finally, there are all the little touches missing from the shop vac. You can attach systainers to the top and wheel them around. The power cord stores nicely. There's a brake which is both effective and easy to use. The wheels actually roll over most surfaces. There's actually a useful place to store the hose.

So far, my CT 26 is my most used Festool. And my old Craftsman hasn't been used since I got it.

Bottom line, yes, you can make do with your existing shop vac if you really can't afford a Festool vac. The original poster's tips are helpful for that. But if you can at all afford it, get one. Your only regret will be waiting.

 

[BarBuilder]

As expected - the members of FOG seem to consider it heresy NOT to own a CT. While I appreciate that many of you own and enjoy your Festool CT, try to keep in mind that there are some of us who either don't have it in our budget for our initial purchase or we feel that those $'s are better spent elsewhere. I was simply presenting options to those who want to own a green tool but can't go "all in" on their first purchase. I already owned the Shop-vac and iVac switch prior to my first festool purchase and since I have no plans of acquiring a Festool sander, I don't see a value in having suction control capabilities or HEPA level filtration at this time. Nor am I concerned with vac noise as I wear hearing protection at all times in the shop. In fact, the remaining festool items on my list (domino & OF1400 router) should be well served by my existing shop vac/iVac switch/festool hose setup since these tools will produce more chips than dust and should have no need for suction control. For me personally, a CT vac is the last item on my list. Maybe someday I'll own one but for now, I'd much rather use my festool $'s to buy the Domino & 1400. But thats just me - to each their own.

 

[mparka]

I don't think anyone is saying it is a heresy, I believe we are trying to communicate how much better it turned out to be than originally expected.  Final push to get CT for me was getting a Festool sander since the variable speed actually is a requirement to get the full benefit of the RO sanders.

I now have CT and two other shop-vac and even though CT is much more heavier than any of the shop-vac, I still carry up the stairs into my house when I'm doing renovation work for my own house.

 

[rjwz28]

As expected - the members of FOG seem to consider it heresy NOT to own a CT. While I appreciate that many of you own and enjoy your Festool CT, try to keep in mind that there are some of us who either don't have it in our budget for our initial purchase or we feel that those $'s are better spent elsewhere. I was simply presenting options to those who want to own a green tool but can't go "all in" on their first purchase. I already owned the Shop-vac and iVac switch prior to my first festool purchase and since I have no plans of acquiring a Festool sander, I don't see a value in having suction control capabilities or HEPA level filtration at this time. Nor am I concerned with vac noise as I wear hearing protection at all times in the shop. In fact, the remaining festool items on my list (domino & OF1400 router) should be well served by my existing shop vac/iVac switch/festool hose setup since these tools will produce more chips than dust and should have no need for suction control. For me personally, a CT vac is the last item on my list. Maybe someday I'll own one but for now, I'd much rather use my festool $'s to buy the Domino & 1400. But thats just me - to each their own.

BarBuilder, that was great letting people know about the Shopvac because I did the exact same thing using the non static free hose when I purchased my Domino.  My Vacuum works fine with the Domino. If I HAD to buy the Festool vac (which I am sure is very good) I could not afford the Domino as I had to but the cutters and tenons which set me back over a thousand. You're just letting people know that there isn't just one way to do it.

Aloha,
Rob

 

[BarBuilder]

Thank you Rob - that was exactly the intent of my original post. [big grin]

 

[ccarrolladams]

The marvelous thing about the Domino is that the dust it creates have a minimum of static cling. Also, all it needs is extraction meeting its minimum requirement. Much like a TS55 or TS75 or Kapex, there is no problem if the extraction is far more than minimum.

Personally I do not recommend using shop vacs indoors to collect dust and chips from machines being used. I worry about all the dirt those vacs release back into the air. When I am working close to a CT with a fresh bag and HEPA filters for hours at a time, I do not worry about damaging my lungs. When I used to use a shop vac for a few minutes at a time to clean my garage, I also did not worry. I figured that since I live near Los Angeles the SMOG was a bigger problem than shop vac exhaust

Sanders are a whole different thing than the Domino. The performance of a sander is a function of fine tuning the suction. For this reason you need the sanding CT physically close to you. Sander cause a lot of static charge, so a working Anti-Static hose is important in my experience. An AS hose only works with an extractor built to provide the grounding connection.

Largely, you get what you pay for.

 

[EWTHeckman]

If I HAD to buy the Festool vac (which I am sure is very good) I could not afford the Domino as I had to but the cutters and tenons which set me back over a thousand.

That is a perfect example of what I meant when I wrote:

if you really can't afford a Festool vac.

If it comes down to choosing between getting a tool to do something you otherwise can't do vs. getting a better tool to replace an existing one, I think it's generally more wise to get the former type of tool. For example, I'm still using a Craftsman miter saw instead of getting a Kapex so I could put the money towards Festool sanders instead.

I'm just suggesting that a Festool CT really should be further up the list of priorities than it may seem at first glance.

We're in far closer agreement than BarBuilder's reaction ("heresy") implies.

 

[Sean.M]

As expected - the members of FOG seem to consider it heresy NOT to own a CT. While I appreciate that many of you own and enjoy your Festool CT, try to keep in mind that there are some of us who either don't have it in our budget for our initial purchase or we feel that those $'s are better spent elsewhere. I was simply presenting options to those who want to own a green tool but can't go "all in" on their first purchase. I already owned the Shop-vac and iVac switch prior to my first festool purchase and since I have no plans of acquiring a Festool sander, I don't see a value in having suction control capabilities or HEPA level filtration at this time. Nor am I concerned with vac noise as I wear hearing protection at all times in the shop. In fact, the remaining festool items on my list (domino & OF1400 router) should be well served by my existing shop vac/iVac switch/festool hose setup since these tools will produce more chips than dust and should have no need for suction control. For me personally, a CT vac is the last item on my list. Maybe someday I'll own one but for now, I'd much rather use my festool $'s to buy the Domino & 1400. But thats just me - to each their own.

I did not consider it heresy or blasphemy I was just considering the labor/time and material costs for some of the modifications that were mentioned in tweaking the standard vac and was weighing the cost of a mini to that.

I am not a festool guru, just recently exposed to festool, as a painter and drywall guy the bulk of my needs are in sanding, sure I would like to have something like a Kapex but for now the dewalt I use for repairs works for me and at this point in time it is about sanding cleaner so a ct fits into that. Of course the more I use festool the more I would like to add more and more festool tools into the mix but for now it is all about what makes sense to keep the roi. My near future festool purchases will be a ls 130, ro 150 and possibly a ps 130. There are lots of other tools as well but I have the philosophy of a few hundred here and a few hundred there.

 

[adubeau]

BarBuilder,

Why don't you just aim to win the first prize in the Festool finishing questionnaire contest?  Then you'll have the CT 26 for free.

Oh, it's a contest and not a drawing?  We're being judged on the quality of our responses?  Oops...

No way I am winning it... I didn't win the Kapex and I was crying like a little gurly mon....

 

[leakyroof]

Thank you Rob - that was exactly the intent of my original post. [big grin]

  I think everyone gets your intent. We've all been there for the most part. Let me relay some of my previous Non-Festool experiences with sanders, dust collection and the lack of DC prior to me buying my first combo package in 2004 of a ETS 150 sander and my beloved CT-22.
I started with god-awful sanders back in the '80s since I had little money and about zero knowledge on what would a decent sander to own.  Zero dust collection.  Then, I discovered air power tools, and air powered DA sanders that I could use at work, but had no means to run at home since my measly single stage 5HP Sanborn compressor would not keep up with the sanders thirst for air[believe me, I tried.. [embarassed]]
Suddenly, in the early 90's, Bosch came out with a very well made RAS that HAD a dust port to use either the bag it came with or a vacuum attached by way of a very small diameter hose. Bought it right away after reading a FWW review and agreeing that it was finally time to get the features I'd fallen in love with on air sanders in a 120 volt sander that I could use anywhere.
WOWWWWW, huge improvement, but still not the whole package as I was acutely aware of how much fine dust the vacuum bags/filters were letting back out into my working space when I was sanding. [scared]  But, that sander and my various Shop-Vacs were my only 'go-to's for about 15 years when it came to sanding with some control of dust.
So I upgraded the Shop-Vac filter to a HEPA type, and still had questions about how the amount of vacuum at the sanders pad surface could either help or hurt me while I was sanding. Did NOT rig-up a variable suction control like others have posted about because I started to hear about this company called Festool and what they had to offer.
Went out on a limb and bought the sander/CT package sight unseen since there was no local dealer to visit back then.
Knew about the 30 day trial policy, hoped I wouldn't need to ship the package back to McFeelys if needed.
Didn't need to........
Variable suction/speed control, auto tool function, super quiet, HEPA filters and decent collection bags etc, etc.
If I could have had all of that from day one, I would have saved up for it, even if it meant waiting for the money to build-up. I spent 20 years sanding, and not getting the results or control that I wanted until I bought my first Festool sanding package. So, in the end, what I'm saying is this, don't be like me and limit yourself for 15 years [embarassed]
You won't have to rig up anything, you'll find ways of adding onto the CT-'s like we all have with either a home made cyclone or a fancy Oneida UDD to improve the dust collection process even further, and you'll have a MUCH quieter vacuum than a Shop-Vac.
  I can hook-up my 8" Clarke Drum Floor Sander to my UDD/CT-22 set-up, and the cyclone and vacuum keep up with the floor sanders output easily. Now, I don't even worry about sanding my wood floors since a little mod to my CT-22 has got me covered.
If I flashback to '96 when I had only the fabric bag on a rental floor machine to contain the Drum Sanders dust, Festool has really improved my game, and saved my lungs and hearing[even with nice Peltor ear muffs that I always wear when working] 

 

[plouf]

Hi, Barbuilder,

I wonder if there is some point I didn't understand in your explanation. I'd like to connect an accessory like the one you mentionned to a no-brand vac to give it a try. Well, the only difference is that I have a AS #452878 instead of the non-AS #452879. But it doesn't fit at all. The point is that it's non threaded while the vac is awaiting a threaded female connector. Is there in the Festool catalog an item that can replace (or adapt to) the female connector on this #452878/9 items that I could order?

thanks for your help!

- plouf -

it is not necessary to buy a Festool CT vacuum in order to get good dust collection from these tools. ALL YOU NEED TO BUY IS ITEM #452879!!! This is the 16.5' non-anti-static hose and it is only $75. One end is an EXACT FIT to any standard Shop Vac (which is 2 and 1/4") and the other end is for the beautiful green tool.

 

[AlexThePalex]

plouf, it seems you don't have a "standard" connection to your vac. Whatever "standard" might be exactly. But I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Festool's catalogue that will help with a threaded connection. All Festool's connectors are for one type of receptacle and that's the plain type that just slides in. I think you wil have to jury rig something with a connector from the brand of your own vac.

 

[plouf]

Hi,

Thanks Alex,

I'll have to dig a little dig deeper, then. Will check again tonight and maybe post a picture so maybe you will have a better idea of the type of connector of this vac

regards,

- plouf -

it seems you don't have a "standard" connection to your vac. Whatever "standard" might be exactly. But I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Festool's catalogue that will help with a threaded connection.

 

[plouf]

Hi,

Here are a couple of pics of the connector on the vac... hope it gives some idea...





- plouf -

it seems you don't have a "standard" connection to your vac.