To Domino or not to Domino? That IS the question....

[ChuckS]

Thank you all for your input!

I have ordered the DF 500 RQ set together with the systainer fill of various dominos.

Snip.

b) I am not fully convinced by the handle design and am concerned that it may be less ergonomic in vertical cuts (just a hunch but I'm not ready to take that plunge - excuse the pun)

I am looking forward to it arriving although I think the first project I will be using it on has some "challenging" joints so I am mentally preparing myself for some failures to start with

Unless the D-handle in the DFC is different from the DF700, which I have used on vertical cuts, I can assure you that it's far easier to do vertical cuts with the DF500 barrel than with the DFC handle, especially when you have a lot to mill.

 

[onocoffee]

Indeed I have - many times!
The man is a treasure trove of Festool hints, tips and explanations.

As a matter of fact I discovered today purely by accident that his Festool channel seems to have stopped production? What a shame that is.

Sedge has his own YouTube channel: SedgeTool and he's been releasing weekly videos on the regular - I think typically on Sundays.

What has ceased production is the Festool Live show on Festool USA's YouTube channel. This was a sharp and abrupt ending and the word is that Sedge and a number of others were fired from their positions at Festool USA.

It's a shame because FTL was FTUSA's first and best outreach to users and potential users - with a worldwide reach. I don't know what the issue was (though I have theories) but FTL is Dead and there does not seem to be a replacement. So, any intrepid YouTubers (or Sedge himself): there's a gap in the Noon Eastern Time slot on Fridays that people will be wanting to fill...

 

[peter halle]

Personally I think of the word "fired" for when an employee has done something wrong that ends their employment. "Layoff", for me, fits the situation where a company makes a decision to release employee(s) for reasons not related to job performance.

Just me.

Peter

 

[luvmytoolz]

Personally I think of the word "fired" for when an employee has done something wrong that ends their employment. "Layoff", for me, fits the situation where a company makes a decision to release employee(s) for reasons not related to job performance.

Just me.

Peter

Times like this I think a simple statement or some sort of acknowledgement should be released to halt the inevitable rumour mill.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Personally I think of the word "fired" for when an employee has done something wrong that ends their employment. "Layoff", for me, fits the situation where a company makes a decision to release employee(s) for reasons not related to job performance.

Just me.

Peter

A pack of DOGE got loose and ended up in Indiana?

 

[Stevenski]

I can assure you that it's far easier to do vertical cuts with the DF500 barrel than with the DFC handle, especially when you have a lot to mill.

That's my gut feeling based on just looking at pictures so it's comforting to have someone with experience confirm it
But I am sure I would be happy either way It was really cordless vs corded that decided it for me this time

 

[onocoffee]

Personally I think of the word "fired" for when an employee has done something wrong that ends their employment. "Layoff", for me, fits the situation where a company makes a decision to release employee(s) for reasons not related to job performance.

Just me.

Peter

Point taken. I rephrase: "layoff" would be the better used term.

 

[mino]

EDIT: FTL note moved to appropriate thread (mino)

---

There are VERY few expensive tools I would highly recommend anyone to get BEFORE they are skilled and thus BEFORE they build up their own "tool chest":
1) TPC 18 + all the supported chucks
2) DOMINO + CT15

The reasoning is those are two extremely universal tools which makes them the most valuable for a newbie as they cause a A LOT of time/money normally wasted on various "limited and/or junk tool" to just not happen.

Yes.

I am saying that buying those items as early as possible, even at the cost of skipping a lof of "cheap" kit is the best possible spend of money for a hobby/ newbie.

Sure, there are many great tools for great value. But none have such a wide reach and teaching/guiding potential as a universal drill and a universal joiner. And that multiplication effect - from owning those early on - is the bigger the more a beginner/the more an amateur the purchaser is.

 

[petar73]

Domino yes. TPC, don’t think so. My most unused drill is the big and heavy combi drill (not a festool, i dont own festool drills).

 

[ChuckS]

About the D handle. It's still not too late for the new corded DF500 to be designed with a detachable handle for regular cuts, while leaving the barrel for vertical cuts. The detachable handle can be included like other accessories such as the support bracket.

 

[ChuckS]

Domino yes. TPC, don’t think so. My most unused drill is the big and heavy combi drill (not a festool, i dont own festool drills).

Unlike the Domino Joiner, other brands of drills exist to do the job of Festool drills. Until the patent expires and a clone comes to the market, there's only one Domino Joiner. The DF, once mastered and/or used with after-market or shop-made jigs or accessories, can bring significant productivity boost and opportunities.

In the last 10 years, except those joints done by hand, every project completed in my shop that required structural joinery, including tables and chairs, was done with the DF500. In terms of quantity, I'm talking over 50 pieces, using hundreds and hundreds of tenons of various sizes from 4mm to 10mm.

I have used three different models of Festool drills. In 95% of use, they aren't anything different from any other cordless drills I own or have used (Makita, Bosch, Ridgid and Black & Decker). The main difference for the 5% use lies in the chuck accessories.

 

[ReneS]

For me, a table saw and compound miter saw have been indispensable. I know different people here have different opinions on this, but I use them for the cabinet builds I do, and they work quite well. Both are DeWalts. I don't have a cabinet saw.

After trying a variety of methods for doing mortise and tenons, from stub tenons to floating tenons (using a table saw and a router), I got the Domino. The Domino is now one of my most used tools.

A router in a router table is great for cutting grooves in rails and stiles (for floating panels), along with making moldings and putting edge profiles on things like cabinet tops. I started with a simple homemade router table, moved up to a Bosch table, and then went with Jessem after a number of years not really liking the Bosch.

 

[mino]

Unlike the Domino Joiner, other brands of drills exist to do the job of Festool drills. ...

ChuckS, your "issue" is a perspective of a seasoned person. There is ONLY the FEIN 4-speed sibling of it.

I am writing from a perspective of someone who, generally does NOT know of a fine trigger use cases like on the TPC. Or of what the high speed mode allows to use it for.

I consider myself fairly proficient in physics and tools from early age. And let me say that I had to waste about 2x-3x the cost of my DRC 18/4 before I finally purchased it. At which point I was banging my head to the wall, how stupid I was with that "oh, there are other cheaper options". Nope, there are not. Not as universal ones.


Further, other tools exist that can do the job of a DOMINO. But NONE that can do ALL THE JOBS of a DOMINO. That is the same with the TPC/FEIN variety of it.

That is my point. The DOMINO as well as the TPC (a strong 4-speed drill with a super-fine trigger) are enablers and education tools. Way more than "just tools" for a newbie/hobby user.


Sure the TPC is NOT the best tool for most tasks it can do. But it is the ONLY that can do ALL the tasks (besides the most heavy duty ones).
The DOMINO is also NOT the best tool for most tasks it can do. But it is the most universal one. It replaces a who cabinet of tools and more. But mainly, it enables new horizons on what is possible to someone who does not have that "tool chest" that can do all those tasks it can take care of.

---
Those that do not/did not have it - thus have no experience with a 3500+ rpm cordless drill with the finesse of the Festools - please avoid commenting. The same with the DOMINO.

The thing is, you are actually those who would have benefited from a TPC/DOMINO in your tool chest when you were starting up, the most.

---
And yes, the percussion is useless, but that is not why I wrote TPC 18 instead of TDC 18. The thing is the percussion is built-in and only disabled in the TDC variant, thus making it pointless to skip it.
(The previous generation has standalone percussion module, so the DRC was lighter and I would have suggested it instead.)

 

[ReneS]

The DOMINO is also NOT the best tool for most tasks it can do. But it is the most universal one. It replaces a who cabinet of tools and more. But mainly, it enables new horizons on what is possible to someone who does not have that "tool chest" that can do all those tasks it can take care of.

Mino - I can't help wondering why you say that the Domino isn't the best tool for most tasks it can do.

For me, it is the best tool available for quickly and accurately cutting mortises for floating tenons. I have used a router both with a jig and a router table, a table saw with a dado stack, and a biscuit joiner. For me, the Domino worked better than all of them.

Just curious.

 

[derekcohen]

Really nice work, but if you don't mind a question:

Why make square and perfect mortises for the slats? Why not just choose a domino and attach them that way? If anything, the slats could change width with humidity and reveal gaps. Yes, I know the slats are narrow and so wood movement wouldn't be perceptible, but why even bother/risk it?

I have a Gustav Stickley cube chair, easily 100 years old, and I can't tell how the slats are attached:
View attachment 378837

I also have a Harden curved arm rocker:
View attachment 378838

And on that most of the slats are loose. They rounded the edges of the slats, and kept the rounded corners in the mortises. They're not a perfect fit, but I guess most people don't look that closely that close to the ground (the upper ones you'd need to lie on the floor looking up to see).

Anyway, my choice would be to domino the slats in. Why stress over getting each squared end mortise just perfect when the tenon joint is just a strong and is easier to look good?

The reason for squaring the mortises is to fit the slats, which go in exactly. The slats are a slip fit and do not require glue. If you worked with round mortise ends, then you must round the ends and sides of the slats, which was not the look I was after.

Movement in the slats has not been present, not in this one made about 4 years ago, and another made 25 years ago.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ChuckS]

Sorry, Mino, when it comes to drills, I don't buy your idea that certain drills are good for starters or beginners, while some others are for more experienced ones. A drill is a drill. Yes, some drills may be lighter or more ergonomic or have more features, but the basic learning curve in terms of drilling is the same across types and brands.

I have been to various woodworking schools and high schools with construction or woodworking classes. I have never come across an instructor or a teacher who told me they got certain woodworking machines or tools, let alone drills, because they were designed or functioned better for beginners or learners The only exception is the SawStop for which time and again, I have been told they are mandatory for beginners and students from a safety point of view, not from a learning perspective. I have seen all different brands of tools in those schools.

Sorry again. This isn't true: Those that do not/did not have it - thus have no experience with a 3500+ rpm cordless drill with the finesse of the Festools - please avoid commenting. The same with the DOMINO.

Even though I have used Festool drills (three different models), I don't harbor such arrogant (or is it ignorant?) thinking that someone else who doesn't own a Festool drill but has substantial experience with cordless drills is not qualified to comment on the German drills.

Finally, I made my comments on the Festool drills and DF for general woodworkers, with both beginners and seasoned woodworkers in mind. Learning curves apply to both types of woodworkers.

I can't but wonder why you adopt such a narrow perspective of tools. Is it because of some specialized woodworking that you do?

 

[smorgasbord]

The issue of what tools to buy first is unanswerable in the general sense because different people want to build different things, have differing budgets, differing time they can/want to devote to it, and have differing spaces in which to work.

The Dominos are great, but if you mostly build jewelry boxes, wooden puzzles, and children's toys it's certainly not among the first tools to purchase.

 

[smorgasbord]

The reason for squaring the mortises is to fit the slats, which go in exactly. The slats are a slip fit and do not require glue. If you worked with round mortise ends, then you must round the ends and sides of the slats, which was not the look I was after.

I get all that - the question I was trying to ask is why not just use dominos to attach the slats instead of having to mill an "exact" mortise, which requires squaring by hand? It would give you the same look.

 

[petar73]

Those that do not/did not have it - thus have no experience with a 3500+ rpm cordless drill with the finesse of the Festools - please avoid commenting. The same with the DOMINO.

I know that tpc’s main advantage is speed. I was considering buying fein’s 4 seed drill as I have fein batteries, but for drilling in metal I prefer my heavy duty floor standing drill or 240v bosch I bought especially for that. I agree that for someone tpc could cover most tasks, but for me any drill could be used for a few holes.