Track Saws

[Coen]

You loose like 1mm of depth on the mafell rail right  [tongue]

Rail height for Festool rails is 5 mm, while rail height for Mafell rails is 6 mm. However, Mafell offers a 162 mm blade for the MT 55 that makes the issue go away.  [smile]

Then it's cutting depth is still 20mm less than that of the TS75.

 

[rvieceli]

You loose like 1mm of depth on the mafell rail right  [tongue]

Rail height for Festool rails is 5 mm, while rail height for Mafell rails is 6 mm. However, Mafell offers a 162 mm blade for the MT 55 that makes the issue go away.  [smile]

[member=8955]Coen[/member]

Then you need the K85  [wink] 10mm more than the TS75
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-k85ec-circular-saw

Ron

Then it's cutting depth is still 20mm less than that of the TS75.

 

[Coen]

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] don't write your response inside the quote tags...
As for that K85; I don't see why I would ever pay €440 more for that over a Festool HK85

 

[DeformedTree]

well,  the Mafell exist in North America and is in 110V too.  The Festool doesn't, and as you may know, trying to get Festool Products into N.A. from Europe is not easy, and will have no support.  When there is a real option in the US, verses trying to get one in from elsewhere, the US available option wins in most situations.

 

[Coen]

well,  the Mafell exist in North America and is in 110V too.  The Festool doesn't, and as you may know, trying to get Festool Products into N.A. from Europe is not easy, and will have no support.  When there is a real option in the US, verses trying to get one in from elsewhere, the US available option wins in most situations.

Huh? From what I know a whole bunch of dealers ship overseas. And any private citizen can do the same even regardless of manufacturer-issued export-bans, but then you end up paying the local VAT too.

 

[DeformedTree]

Festool Prevents any dealer from exporting them out.  If you try you will get a prompt telling you they won't sell it to you. Some folks get stuff, but I think it usual means you have to go ebay, and hope for the best, but even then you might get rejected.  Dealers won't risk loosing their deal with festool just to ship a few units to someone in the US.

If someone knows someone in those places, that is the easiest way, but of course someone has to know someone over there and have that kind of relationship with to go thru them buying, them shipping, etc.

I think in the past it was easier, and there were some dealers more willing to do it. I've certainly yet to find one who will ship stuff. Even the non electrical stuff that people often report having more success, I haven't seen anything I could get yet.

 

[Lincoln]

You loose like 1mm of depth on the mafell rail right  [tongue]

Rail height for Festool rails is 5 mm, while rail height for Mafell rails is 6 mm. However, Mafell offers a 162 mm blade for the MT 55 that makes the issue go away.  [smile]

Then it's cutting depth is still 20mm less than that of the TS75.

And the TS75 depth is less than the Mafell K85 - still not sure what the point is of comparing saws with different sized blades, then comparing depth of cut??

 

[Paul_HKI]

Festool Prevents any dealer from exporting them out.  If you try you will get a prompt telling you they won't sell it to you. Some folks get stuff, but I think it usual means you have to go ebay, and hope for the best, but even then you might get rejected.  Dealers won't risk loosing their deal with festool just to ship a few units to someone in the US.

If someone knows someone in those places, that is the easiest way, but of course someone has to know someone over there and have that kind of relationship with to go thru them buying, them shipping, etc.

I think in the past it was easier, and there were some dealers more willing to do it. I've certainly yet to find one who will ship stuff. Even the non electrical stuff that people often report having more success, I haven't seen anything I could get yet.

I hate to be pointing this out, but this is basically just idle speculation.  Grey market imports may not have local service support, but there are lots of authorised dealers and non-authorised resellers who will ship 110V power tools of all makes and models, Festool included, to buyers in the USA.  Does it make sense to buy grey market?  Well, maybe.  That depends on the tool, the savings and the buyers expectations.  But let's hold fire on presenting your opinions about how this stuff works as if it were fact.  It's not. 

I write that with a couple of decades of experience exporting tech hardware to the USA.  EU based manufacturers can't actually prevent EU based dealers selling via 'grey market' channels to export buyers, as long as there's not a sanctioned embargo on the destination.  It's a strictly anticompetitive practice, against the law and attempts to prevent such practices at smaller scales don't make any sense for a manufacturer.  The financial penalties can be severe. 

Reading some of what you write generally, I get the impression you've had bad experiences personally in the past, but that doesn't mean for a moment that a US buyer can't source a European manufactured tool directly from a European retailer.  To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

 

[mino]

I write that with a couple of decades of experience exporting tech hardware to the USA.  EU based manufacturers can't actually prevent EU based dealers selling via 'grey market' channels to export buyers, as long as there's not a sanctioned embargo on the destination.  It's a strictly anticompetitive practice, against the law and attempts to prevent such practices at smaller scales don't make any sense for a manufacturer.  The financial penalties can be severe. 

Reading some of what you write generally, I get the impression you've had bad experiences personally in the past, but that doesn't mean for a moment that a US buyer can't source a European manufactured tool directly from a European retailer.  To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

I still stand that a HK85-ish saw is an excellent complement to a TS/TSC 55 and a better choice for most than a TS75. But in US market it is not the Festool one.

HK85 is a specialist tool and since it was never imported to US, there is zero presence of spare parts or any servicing capability whatsoever.

If Maffel was not available, it may be worth it to import. But with Maffel around it makes no practical sense.

This is a 20+year lifespan tool. Without service support it is half the value, maybe less. Not to mention the regulatory/insurance aspects of using it, the no-practical-warranty scenario etc. Just not worth it with the Maffel being around.

 

[Coen]

Festool Prevents any dealer from exporting them out.  If you try you will get a prompt telling you they won't sell it to you. Some folks get stuff, but I think it usual means you have to go ebay, and hope for the best, but even then you might get rejected.  Dealers won't risk loosing their deal with festool just to ship a few units to someone in the US.

If someone knows someone in those places, that is the easiest way, but of course someone has to know someone over there and have that kind of relationship with to go thru them buying, them shipping, etc.

I think in the past it was easier, and there were some dealers more willing to do it. I've certainly yet to find one who will ship stuff. Even the non electrical stuff that people often report having more success, I haven't seen anything I could get yet.

In the past it mainly came down to "I don't understand this German-language website".

 

[DeformedTree]

Festool Prevents any dealer from exporting them out.  If you try you will get a prompt telling you they won't sell it to you. Some folks get stuff, but I think it usual means you have to go ebay, and hope for the best, but even then you might get rejected.  Dealers won't risk loosing their deal with festool just to ship a few units to someone in the US.

If someone knows someone in those places, that is the easiest way, but of course someone has to know someone over there and have that kind of relationship with to go thru them buying, them shipping, etc.

I think in the past it was easier, and there were some dealers more willing to do it. I've certainly yet to find one who will ship stuff. Even the non electrical stuff that people often report having more success, I haven't seen anything I could get yet.

I hate to be pointing this out, but this is basically just idle speculation.  Grey market imports may not have local service support, but there are lots of authorised dealers and non-authorised resellers who will ship 110V power tools of all makes and models, Festool included, to buyers in the USA.  Does it make sense to buy grey market?  Well, maybe.  That depends on the tool, the savings and the buyers expectations.  But let's hold fire on presenting your opinions about how this stuff works as if it were fact.  It's not. 

I write that with a couple of decades of experience exporting tech hardware to the USA.  EU based manufacturers can't actually prevent EU based dealers selling via 'grey market' channels to export buyers, as long as there's not a sanctioned embargo on the destination.  It's a strictly anticompetitive practice, against the law and attempts to prevent such practices at smaller scales don't make any sense for a manufacturer.  The financial penalties can be severe. 

Reading some of what you write generally, I get the impression you've had bad experiences personally in the past, but that doesn't mean for a moment that a US buyer can't source a European manufactured tool directly from a European retailer.  To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

Focusing on Festool.  If there were just easy to find dealers who would ship stuff to the US, that would be great.  I don't think price and such is much an issue to folks here (stuff is generally cheaper even with VAT than what stuff cost here). It's simply not being able to find someone who will ship. Folks do find sources from time to time, but as you will notice here, folks don't go talking about how/where they got it from.  This isn't speculation, this is a person in the US who has tried buying stuff we don't get here.  Folks understand they won't have a warranty and such, for many that isn't the concern, and doesn't come up simply because they can't find a source of what they want to buy.

I have succeeded before in getting a Festool product here, it was not easy. 

I do not know how it works with Festool, but others here on this subject in the past have pointed out Festools actions towards dealers who ship stuff here.  Maybe there is a list out there of grey market festool dealers who ship to the US, but I doubt it's published. Once you find a place, it very well will tell you they ship to the US, till mid process of buying something when it stops and tells you no.

If it was straightforward to get Festool  tools here from the Europe, you would certainly see a whole lot more 230V tools here and other items we don't get. I don't doubt there are folks here who have a channel to get something, but they aren't going to go posting it for fear of having that source go away. In addition I don't think moderators want to deal with people posting things that thwart Festools wishes.

In short, can people get a European Festool product into the US? Yes.  Is it easy/straightforward to where "just import one" is a valid answer? No.

When a company like Mafell has a dealer here, that while expensive, means no hassle, and a warranty, and support, it becomes a good option over trying to find a way to get a Festool product here. Obviously, the number of items where Mafell sells something here that is the match for something Festool doesn't is not big.  A 85 saw is one of them.

 

[Cheese]

I get the impression you've had bad experiences personally in the past, but that doesn't mean for a moment that a US buyer can't source a European manufactured tool directly from a European retailer.  To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

I wish that were the case, but when it comes to Festool corded/electrical powered tools it is extremely difficult to get one shipped to the US. Non-electrical items like router bits, collets, rebating heads or MFS sections are generally available if your research is thorough. Not so much for the electrical items.

I was lucky to order and receive a SYS-Powerhub from Amazon.de. Two weeks later I tried to order another one and that retail avenue was completely shut down.  [sad]

 

[DeformedTree]

Festool Prevents any dealer from exporting them out.  If you try you will get a prompt telling you they won't sell it to you. Some folks get stuff, but I think it usual means you have to go ebay, and hope for the best, but even then you might get rejected.  Dealers won't risk loosing their deal with festool just to ship a few units to someone in the US.

If someone knows someone in those places, that is the easiest way, but of course someone has to know someone over there and have that kind of relationship with to go thru them buying, them shipping, etc.

I think in the past it was easier, and there were some dealers more willing to do it. I've certainly yet to find one who will ship stuff. Even the non electrical stuff that people often report having more success, I haven't seen anything I could get yet.

In the past it mainly came down to "I don't understand this German-language website".

Translation tools have come a long way.  I wouldn't doubt challenges have changed over time.  I don't know what it was like trying to get Festool stuff here long ago.  I'm sure before Festool had a US presence it would have been easy, and probably even in the early years of Festool USA it was probably easier.  This is speculation, I'm sure there are folks here who were working to get stuff here 10-20-25 years ago and have experience on what it was like.  Clearly the first Festool Tools to reach the shores of the new world didn't come here through the most official channels, as no such thing existed. It probably was just shops sending it off, and some expensive shipping.

 

[DeformedTree]

I get the impression you've had bad experiences personally in the past, but that doesn't mean for a moment that a US buyer can't source a European manufactured tool directly from a European retailer.  To suggest otherwise is simply not true.

I wish that were the case, but when it comes to Festool corded/electrical powered tools it is extremely difficult to get one shipped to the US. Non-electrical items like router bits, collets, rebating heads or MFS sections are generally available if your research is thorough. Not so much for the electrical items.

I was lucky to order and receive a SYS-Powerhub from Amazon.de. Two weeks later I tried to order another one and that retail avenue was completely shut down.  [sad]

Exactly, when a hole opens, it gets plugged the moment it gets exploited.  I've had things change on me mid process with Amazon.de  It starts out good, and then stops you, go back to the beginning and now the "no export to US" flag will now be set. Or maybe it processed the order, just to get a retraction.

 

[mino]

Exactly, when a hole opens, it gets plugged the moment it gets exploited.  I've had things change on me mid process with Amazon.de  It starts out good, and then stops you, go back to the beginning and now the "no export to US" flag will now be set. Or maybe it processed the order, just to get a retraction.

One thing of note reg. the grey market.

Starting Jan 1 2021 Festool had stopped mandatory tool registration by the dealer which was common for online purchases.

I believe this was due to a conflict with the EU privacy directives as it meant the dealer sharing personal information (just name + email but PI is PI..) with Festool.

IMO this will make it easier for folks to re-sell retail-purchased tools to US as there will no longer be the serial # trail visible to Festool all the way to the buyer, should the tool ever show up in US Festool service center ...

I think for hobby users, this may be worth it with tools which have (mechanical) commonality with stuff already sold in the US. E.g. getting a 240V TS55 with metric scales etc.

Not sure makes much sense with exotic pieces like a HK85 which are heavily dependent on spares availability given how few these are around ...

 

[Coen]

Exactly, when a hole opens, it gets plugged the moment it gets exploited.  I've had things change on me mid process with Amazon.de  It starts out good, and then stops you, go back to the beginning and now the "no export to US" flag will now be set. Or maybe it processed the order, just to get a retraction.

One thing of note reg. the grey market.

Starting Jan 1 2021 Festool had stopped mandatory tool registration by the dealer which was common for online purchases.

Huh, mandatory?? I don't think so.

I believe this was due to a conflict with the EU privacy directives as it meant the dealer sharing personal information (just name + email but PI is PI..) with Festool.

Yes, my dealer stopped registering years ago for the same reason.

IMO this will make it easier for folks to re-sell retail-purchased tools to US as there will no longer be the serial # trail visible to Festool all the way to the buyer, should the tool ever show up in US Festool service center ...

A private buyer sending a tool to the USA was never any concern. And the trace to the dealer is still there, as Festool still keeps track of what # it sells to what dealer.

I think for hobby users, this may be worth it with tools which have (mechanical) commonality with stuff already sold in the US. E.g. getting a 240V TS55 with metric scales etc.

Not sure makes much sense with exotic pieces like a HK85 which are heavily dependent on spares availability given how few these are around ...

If you are so depended on them, buy two.

How many Festool parts do you buy?

 

[mino]

Huh, mandatory?? I don't think so.

All tools I bought last year were auto-registered from 4 different online stores and there was no way to opt-out. At least not in any obvious way. I searched for it after first tool got auto-registered. Maybe if I placed the order via email etc.

It was a pain as I use dedicated email addresses for each purpose/shop. So now I had my tools registered over 4 different emails and none of them the correct one ...

May be the dealers messes up the implementation on their online stores. Would not surprise me.
Either way the buyer experience was "automatic registration with no questions asked".

 

[Ron B]

How do you tell if a tool is registered?  I bought three tools at year-end and tried to register after the 1st of the year.  The new registration site says I have to submit the invoice, but my invoice is paper, not electronic.  I called Festool to see if I could mail them a copy of the invoice, but they had other problems and were not really interested in helping me register my purchases.    If my dealer did it, great.  I just need to know how to check to see if dealer registered.  I registered other items last year and the new purchases are not on that listing.