TS 55 blade choice advice

[hockey_magnet]

I'm going to be building a deck and using my new TS 55. I know blade questions have been asked before but I'd like to know what you would recommend - I don't want to use the fine tooth blade as the cutting is all pressure treated - deck boards, 2x4, 2x6. I want to keep the 2.2 mm kerf so I guess I can't get the Panther. That leaves the Standard or Universal. Obviously it will be mostly cross cutting But I'll have to do some rips as well. Would the Standard be too aggressive for ANY cross cutting of this type of lumber? I'm hoping to only buy one or the other, not both.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Use a saw made for construction with a blade made for pressure treated lumber. --  [2cents]

 

[Vindingo]

Use a saw made for construction with a blade made for pressure treated lumber. --  [2cents]

The TS55 can be great for zipping off the end of a deck with a nice straight line. 

Universal 28 tooth blade would probably be best of both worlds, but PT wood is always so wet and it might bog down the saw and clog up the vacuum port.  Couldn't hurt to give it a try. 

 

[ccarrolladams]

Hi Hockey,

I agree with Ken, for construction cuts in pressure treated lumber, use a construction-type saw. Although I own virtually every Festool currently sold in the USA, I also own several veteran worm-drive circular saws.

You asked about Festool blades for the TS55. Back when the 2011-2012 catalog of Festool USA came out, I led the charge correcting all the typos on page 62 which is the TS55 blade chart.

Starting at the top, even then the "Standard Saw Blade" was no longer available.

Panther Saw Blade has a 2.2mm kerf like the other TS55 blades and its correct cat is 496 305.

Universal saw blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but at least they correctly listed is cat as 496 304.

Fine Tooth blade has no typos. It has been cat 495 377 with a 2.2mm kerf since it was introduced prior to 2006.

Solid Surface/Laminate blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they did correctly show the cat which is 496 309 and is very useful.

Aluminum/Plastic blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they correctly listed its cat as 496 307. Because this has 56 TC teeth I sometimes use it with expensive dense plywood.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Thanks - good thing I kept my trusty Porter Cable  [smile]

Although I hate pressure treated, not much choice as it has to match an existing PT deck that was just put in. I have found though that some PT is not "wet" but you have to look hard to find it.

Chris

 

[hockey_magnet]

Hi Hockey,

I agree with Ken, for construction cuts in pressure treated lumber, use a construction-type saw. Although I own virtually every Festool currently sold in the USA, I also own several veteran worm-drive circular saws.

You asked about Festool blades for the TS55. Back when the 2011-2012 catalog of Festool USA came out, I led the charge correcting all the typos on page 62 which is the TS55 blade chart.

Starting at the top, even then the "Standard Saw Blade" was no longer available.

Panther Saw Blade has a 2.2mm kerf like the other TS55 blades and its correct cat is 496 305.

Universal saw blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but at least they correctly listed is cat as 496 304.

Fine Tooth blade has no typos. It has been cat 495 377 with a 2.2mm kerf since it was introduced prior to 2006.

Solid Surface/Laminate blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they did correctly show the cat which is 496 309 and is very useful.

Aluminum/Plastic blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they correctly listed its cat as 496 307. Because this has 56 TC teeth I sometimes use it with expensive dense plywood.

Good to know. I was basing my info on the Lee Valley site that shows all the kerfs at 2.2mm except the Panther which it shows at 2.5mm

 

[hockey_magnet]

I should also have asked advice on blades for cutting TREX or similar composites - would you still recommend not using the TS 55?

Thanks again

Chris

 

[Vindingo]

why wouldn't you guys use a TS55 to cut construction lumber?

I know it isn't generally a rough framing tool, but it's still a saw. 

 

[williaty]

That's kind of my attitude about it too. Just this afternoon I cut about a dozen wheel chocks out of a pressure treated 4x4 with the super-long blade and the Trion. It actually ended up being a lot more work than I expected because the wood had been laying in the open in the on-and-off rain for two weeks. It was waterlogged and didn't cut worth a damn. Still ended up with properly cut wheel chocks at the end of the day though.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Vinny,

I've said it on here a number of times.  I feel the TS saws are guided saws only using either the guide rails or edge guides or against some kind of guide.  Freehanding - the 2 motions required to cut with a TS saw, either plunge and hold while pushing forward or plunge into material and hold down while pushing forward is too dangerous and difficult to do compared to a regular circular saw that usually only requires one hand operation.  The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

Disclaimer:  This is only my personal advice from my experiences.  Obviously anyone is free to use what they like for cutting wood or other materials.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using the TS saws on guide rails to cut material for a deck.  For instance, on the MFT/3 or maybe across some horses for ripping or even on a finished deck for trimming the ends, like you said.  Some people prefer to use a miter saw for most of that or a combination of the miter saw and circular saw.  Whatever you're comfortable with, whatever you have, whatever gets the job done and keeps you intact for the next job.

 

[andvari]

Aluminum/Plastic blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they correctly listed its cat as 496 307. Because this has 56 TC teeth I sometimes use it with expensive dense plywood.

Hmm interesting comment - I recently ordered a bunch of expensive dense Europly. Would this be what you are thinking of? And what does the Aluminum/Plastic blade do better under these conditions?

 

[Vindingo]

Vinny,

I've said it on here a number of times.  I feel the TS saws are guided saws only using either the guide rails or edge guides or against some kind of guide.  Freehanding - the 2 motions required to cut with a TS saw, either plunge and hold while pushing forward or plunge into material and hold down while pushing forward is too dangerous and difficult to do compared to a regular circular saw that usually only requires one hand operation.  The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

Disclaimer:  This is only my personal advice from my experiences.  Obviously anyone is free to use what they like for cutting wood or other materials.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using the TS saws on guide rails to cut material for a deck.  For instance, on the MFT/3 or maybe across some horses for ripping or even on a finished deck for trimming the ends, like you said.  Some people prefer to use a miter saw for most of that or a combination of the miter saw and circular saw.  Whatever you're comfortable with, whatever you have, whatever gets the job done and keeps you intact for the next job.

I agree with the freehand thing 100%.

I just assumed the OP was using the saw w/ rail or MFT and was concerned with blade choice due to material.  In my head, cutting PT lumber did not equate to using saw w/o guide.

 

 

[ccarrolladams]

Aluminum/Plastic blade has a 2.2mm kerf, but they correctly listed its cat as 496 307. Because this has 56 TC teeth I sometimes use it with expensive dense plywood.

Hmm interesting comment - I recently ordered a bunch of expensive dense Europly. Would this be what you are thinking of? And what does the Aluminum/Plastic blade do better under these conditions?

My experience using the cat 496 307 Aluminum/Plastic blade in the TS55 is that with especially dense plywood with fairly delicate veneer is that I get even less tear-out on the bottom side. Mind you, when cutting such plywood with a TS55 I always use a sheet of smooth 3/4" plywood as the sacrificial surface. That works just fine most of the time with the Fine Tooth blade cat 495 377 especially when only one side has the expensive veneer. When both sides will be seen just to be doubly safe I use the Aluminum blade.

Europly is one of those kinds of material for which I suggest the Aluminum blade.

For Melamine I suggest the Solid Surface/Laminate blade cat 496 309. When I know we will be using Melamine on a job, I make sure one of my TS55 is fitted with the SS blade. Since I have had marvelous results using a scoring cut on Melamine, and all of my TSxx saws are set exactly the same on all my rails, I set the cut depth on the TS55 with the SS blade to make the scoring cut. For the remaining cut the Fine Tooth blade works swell, so after I make the scoring pass I switch saws.

My pressure beam saw has a scoring saw as well as the main blade. When all the angles are right angles, then that is the tool I use. Because the pressure beams are so close to the blade on both sides above and below, chipping and tear-out are minimal. When the parts can be made on the beam saw I use it. This works as well with Melamine and Europly as pre-finished Maple and other typical cabinet-grade plywood. When parts need miter angles or bevels, I make those on a large cutting table using long guide rails and TS55s. The one with the most recently ground blade is kept set 1mm deeper than another. It is used for the rips, while the TS55 with the next sharpest blade set for a shallower cut is used for the cross-cuts. Additional TS55s are set up with the Aluminum and SS blades as needed.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Vinny,

I've said it on here a number of times.  I feel the TS saws are guided saws only using either the guide rails or edge guides or against some kind of guide.  Freehanding - the 2 motions required to cut with a TS saw, either plunge and hold while pushing forward or plunge into material and hold down while pushing forward is too dangerous and difficult to do compared to a regular circular saw that usually only requires one hand operation.  The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

Disclaimer:  This is only my personal advice from my experiences.  Obviously anyone is free to use what they like for cutting wood or other materials.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using the TS saws on guide rails to cut material for a deck.  For instance, on the MFT/3 or maybe across some horses for ripping or even on a finished deck for trimming the ends, like you said.  Some people prefer to use a miter saw for most of that or a combination of the miter saw and circular saw.  Whatever you're comfortable with, whatever you have, whatever gets the job done and keeps you intact for the next job.

I agree with the freehand thing 100%.

I just assumed the OP was using the saw w/ rail or MFT and was concerned with blade choice due to material.  In my head, cutting PT lumber did not equate to using saw w/o guide.

 

That's correct. I hand no intention of using the saw freehand. I would likely be using a short rail to do cross cuts fully supported. Mostly for deck boards just to get a better cut. For most of the heavier stuff like joists I'll use the Porter Cable since they'll be invisible anyway

Chris

 

[andvari]

ccarrolladams,

Your insight is much appreciated.

This is my first experience with Europly and given the cost of the materials I certainly want to minimize the experimenting.

 

[VictorL]

I used TS-55 for deck building. Free hand cutting is dangerous with ANY saw.
I used piece of 3/4" underlined plywood. On top I dropped few pieces of 2x boards (or 5/4s) for  rail support. Then marked boards, drop rail, cut, repeat. Wet PT lumber is not bad at all for bags. Shorter rail (1080mm) works better. Piece of plywood protects saw blade from pebbles and soil.

VictorL

 

[fdengel]

The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

While I like the others (and apparently correctly) failed to equate the material choice with failure to use the guide rail, I don't quite follow this either: how is the guard on a traditional circ saw going to be any more effective than the housing of the saw closing over the blade as it lifts off the workpiece?

1. the user should be next to the saw and not behind it
2. should release the unlocking button above the handle after pulling the trigger and starting to plunge; that way if the blade does snap back completely into the housing, it will lock in place even if the trigger is held down

Note that I'm not commenting on the "ease" of freehand use of the saw -- I'm skeptical of the conclusion, but I'm not arguing the point either; never really had reason to prove/disprove and simply always use the rail.  I'm just curious as to the implication that the plunge mechanism does not provide a level of safety that the spring-back gizmo on traditional saws somehow does.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

While I like the others (and apparently correctly) failed to equate the material choice with failure to use the guide rail, I don't quite follow this either: how is the guard on a traditional circ saw going to be any more effective than the housing of the saw closing over the blade as it lifts off the workpiece?

1. the user should be next to the saw and not behind it
2. should release the unlocking button above the handle after pulling the trigger and starting to plunge; that way if the blade does snap back completely into the housing, it will lock in place even if the trigger is held down

Note that I'm not commenting on the "ease" of freehand use of the saw -- I'm skeptical of the conclusion, but I'm not arguing the point either; never really had reason to prove/disprove and simply always use the rail.  I'm just curious as to the implication that the plunge mechanism does not provide a level of safety that the spring-back gizmo on traditional saws somehow does.

I stated this was from my personal experiences.  When I see a ~$600 saw coming up and back my way with the blade quite exposed, 2 different occasions, compared to worm drives or "side winder" circular saws where the blade guard snapped back during the kickback situation and I didn't feel as great a threat, I make that conclusion, my real world "testing" conclusion.  AND when I talk about using a regular circular saw freehand, I mean that it's not track mounted or guided by anything more than my eye on the cut line or a Speed Square, one hand holding the square, the other guiding the saw.  I do not mean that I'm laying the piece of wood across my leg or on my foot and cutting it, if that's what you were thinking, Victor.  I know there are plenty of framers that do that.  I'm not one of them.  I'd rather cut the lumber on saw horses or one of those portable clamping tables.

 

[semenza]

tried free handing the TS55 for a 2" x 8" cut , once. It was no fun , difficult, and I wouldn't do it again.

I have used the TS55 with attached parallel guide (rip guide) once or twice.  It is OK once you get the cut started but not great. Getting the cut started is the tricky part. AND  exiting with nothing to run out on can be a little unsettling when the saw base snaps "down".  Even though the parallel guide is made by Festool for the saw but I didn't find it to be very useful.

Just my experience.

I keep my  DW circular saw for such tasks. It just works better for those things.

Seth

 

[hockey_magnet]

The guard mechanism on a regular circular saw should cover the blade in the event of kickback and you can easily control the saw to follow a cut line compared to using a TS saw with no guide of any kind.  I've tried the TS saws with nothing else twice and I wouldn't do it again, even for a demo.  That's why I tell people that I don't recommend using the TS saws freehand.

While I like the others (and apparently correctly) failed to equate the material choice with failure to use the guide rail, I don't quite follow this either: how is the guard on a traditional circ saw going to be any more effective than the housing of the saw closing over the blade as it lifts off the workpiece?

1. the user should be next to the saw and not behind it
2. should release the unlocking button above the handle after pulling the trigger and starting to plunge; that way if the blade does snap back completely into the housing, it will lock in place even if the trigger is held down

Note that I'm not commenting on the "ease" of freehand use of the saw -- I'm skeptical of the conclusion, but I'm not arguing the point either; never really had reason to prove/disprove and simply always use the rail.  I'm just curious as to the implication that the plunge mechanism does not provide a level of safety that the spring-back gizmo on traditional saws somehow does.

I stated this was from my personal experiences.  When I see a ~$600 saw coming up and back my way with the blade quite exposed, 2 different occasions, compared to worm drives or "side winder" circular saws where the blade guard snapped back during the kickback situation and I didn't feel as great a threat, I make that conclusion, my real world "testing" conclusion.  AND when I talk about using a regular circular saw freehand, I mean that it's not track mounted or guided by anything more than my eye on the cut line or a Speed Square, one hand holding the square, the other guiding the saw.  I do not mean that I'm laying the piece of wood across my leg or on my foot and cutting it, if that's what you were thinking, Victor.  I know there are plenty of framers that do that.  I'm not one of them.  I'd rather cut the lumber on saw horses or one of those portable clamping tables.

As you can tell, I'm new to the TS but I have a lot of experience with regular CS. I agree with you Ken. If I was going to do freehand work cross cutting 2x lumber, no question I would feel safer with a regular CS than if I were using the TS. Maybe it's just a feeling but much easier to use a conventional CS one handed if you have to use the other hand to hold the work piece, which is sometimes the case -  yeah, cutting on your leg is not a great idea but I've seen lots of guys do it and I have in the past when I was younger and stupid. - Fortunately I still have all my extremeties