TS 55 cut quality

[Sparky977]

Ok, so I am having another issue with my TS55.  I have an MFT3, and today I was setting up to cut some Maple for cabinet face frames.  I like using the TS 55 and the MFT because I can use the flip stop and be sure that pieces are all sized correctly.  I always do a couple test cuts where I cut a piece, and flip the piece over at the cut to make sure everything is set up square (hopefully that makes sense).  Well, on all the test cuts I did, the cut is perfectly smooth until the last half inch of the cut at the top of the piece.  It is almost as if the blade wobbles or something when coming out of the work piece.  The cut is glass smooth up till that point.  I tried changing when I let go of the trigger.  I tried a backer board on the out feed of the cut.  I tried adjusting the bevel to be sure the blade was 90* to the base.  I even tried adjusting the saw/base alignment.  All to no avail.  I am pretty sure I have had this problem before, and I thought I fixed it somehow, but can't remember.    Anyone have any ideas, or have noticed this yourself?

 

[nickao]

Make sure after you let go of the trigger the saw is not moving at all. Can you post a picture?

Nick

 

[Sparky977]

Make sure after you let go of the trigger the saw is not moving at all. Can you post a picture?

Nick

Your comment got me thinking, would it be smarter not to run the saw completely through the cut?  Basically just the moment the piece is cut, instead of continuing with the saw, immediately stop, let go of trigger, and let the saw come up after the blade is done spinning.  Just like we are supposed to do with a chopsaw, let the blade stop spinning before raising it back up.  I will try that tomorrow. 

As for a picture, I don't have a detailed enough digital camera to get a good picture of it.

 

[nickao]

Always better to let the blade come up when not spinning, though I really do not follow my own advice with my TS 75.

On a miter box I never let up the saw with the blade spinning it helps a lot and I am sure it will help and definitely can not hurt on the cuts you are making with the TS 55 and rail.

Another thought: After the initial cut in the forward motion it is possible the piece of wood is moving ever so slightly  with the back of the blade then touching the wood again after the cut piece moves. The movement in the piece getting cut may be imperceptible to you.

Nick

 

[greg mann]

Are you sure the other end of you workpiece is perfectly square? If it isn't, you will be locating at a slightly different spot and can create a shadow cut on the working end.

 

[Brice Burrell]

.......Another thought: After the initial cut in the forward motion it is possible the piece of wood is moving ever so slightly  with the back of the blade then touching the wood again after the cut piece moves. The movement in the piece getting cut may be imperceptible to you.

Nick

I believe Nick may be on the right track, the mdf top pf the MFT's can warp, this can cause a small amount of move during the cut. So check your MFT for flatness.

 

[nickao]

That's for sure, the warping can be really significant too.

I used three thick steel L brackets made to keep router tables flat and screwed them under the mft tops. Before I did that you could see the bow in my three top table. On two of the tops that were next to each other I could never keep them lined up(flat to one another) until I attached the steel bars from underneath spanning the two. They were easily a 1/2" out from each other.

A warpage that you can not see with the eye can cause  movement of the cut piece. I am not sure you can fix these really small areas that are not warped across the entire width or length of the top.

Nick

 

[Chris Hughes]

Yep, sounds like a binding issue to me.  When you cut through enough of the work piece it starts to flex, maybe do to the work piece itself, or the work piece support ie. the table.  If the table is suspect, I'd slide a thin scrap of wood that is a little wider than work piece under your cut but not hanging beyond the cut.  This should relieve the bind and support the cut.  C Hughes

 

[Sparky977]

I'm fairly certain its not binding or a warp in the table, since I have my fence currently set up as close to the edge of the MFT as possible.  I will try to get some good pictures of what is going on.  I still need to try just stopping the saw the moment the piece is cut instead of continuing all the way through.  I will be working in the shop tomorrow afternoon, and will try that.

 

[Tezzer]

on all the test cuts I did, the cut is perfectly smooth until the last half inch of the cut at the top of the piece.  It is almost as if the blade wobbles or something when coming out of the work piece.  The cut is glass smooth up till that point.

I have the exact same problem with thr TS75 and it drives me crazy. I havnt been able to find a solution

 

[nickao]

I still think if you just wait for the blade to completely stop rotating before you pull the saw up that should help or even eliminate it. Also try to stop pushing the saw through the wood as soon as the full cut is made.

I have never noticed that on the last 1/2" of the cut, but then again I am cutting mostly wood for inlay of 1/4" to 5/8" thick so maybe it only shows on lumber thicker than that?

On thick rips I make I never noticed it either, but of late I have not been doing much of that. I will check with some cuts my TS 75 tonight.

Nickao

 

[thender]

Make sure after you let go of the trigger the saw is not moving at all. Can you post a picture?

Nick

Hi Nick-

Reading other threads, it seems that the plunge saws should be set up so that they go down the rail in a toe-in attitude -- the rear portion of the blade is slightly out from the work.

Given that, would it make a difference if you un-plunge with the blade rotating, or wait until it stops?  As long as you  have cut through the material, the rest of the blade shouldn't be contacting the guide.

Just thinking out loud...

-TH

 

[nickao]

It makes a difference if the piece of wood is moving ever so slightly after the initial cutting, moving into the path of the blade on the saws way up, which may or may not be the problem, otherwise you are correct.

 

[JEFF JOHNSON]

Hey all,

Ok, so I don't yet own a ts55, but I am eagerly trying to make sure that I do my research before I break my bank... I am blown away by the "steve jones" cutting table.. and probably like you all, the biggest need for me is for ripping sheet goods... and crosscutting wider than what is possible on my 12" sliding mitre saw..

With that said, If this ts55 works as well as I think it could... it could be used for much more.. I can imagine this replacing a my contractor grade ridgid table saw.... if the ts55 performs as well as it should in my minds eye...

So, in this post there are at least two of you who have the same issue.. and I can totally see how it could be as mentioned... toe out instead of in.... and I also think as mentioned the solution would be to stop the cut before the end of the cut reaches the arbor... one or both of those seems as though it should solve it... just from a logical standpoint.. not experience..

This is my major question that hopefully many of you could help with.. Are your cuts with your ts55 square?  more importantly are they straight?  square has more to do with set up... are the cuts at a 90 degre bevel when you want them to be... those are the two most important to me..

1. Are your cuts straight ( unlike the couple of problems here)
              if you put it on a flat level surface.. do you see any highs and lows...any daylight?

2. Are you 90 degree normal cuts 90 degrees...
              when you put that same board on the counter on edge, does it stand up at 90 degrees every time?

If these two things happen every time..... then the possibilities of the rail system are endless...if they are not... then I can still see value for using it mostly to rough cut my sheet goods and finish it up on my ts....

I hope you all can help with unbiased opinions so that I can plan my purchase...
Thank you in advance....
After you cut boards can you sit it on a level flat counter top and have in stand up straight no problem?
Is the cut straight>

 

[nickao]

I can use the TS 75  to joint two boards together, usually that requires a jointer. Jointing requires the boards to be perfectly straight.

I doubt you can get that on the Ridged table saw, actually I know you can't I had the Ridgid table saw.

So yes it cuts straight and square and you get 30 days to play to make sure you like the system.

 

[OFes]

Greets, all. I've been lurking this holy ground for a good long time now and thought I'd jump up, say hi, and offer a couple of of thought-pennies to the situation described in the original post of this thread.

*jumps up and says hi* 

As to the TS issues mentioned above, I've seen this about 5 or 6 times so far. 2 the result were user 'tippage', and 1 was an MFT top that was practicing its bowl impression, perhaps for a competition somewhere...it never told us where. Anyway, 2 other times, that snip at the end of the cut was due to the saw's flange being a bit out of spec and there WAS a wobble occurring with the blade. One of the saws was a 75 and that puppy would produce a nice, 'ringing' sound whenever you exited a cut. The other was a 55, and didn't make any audible chimes or whatnot. The 55 started doing that after my shop slave goofed and got into a burly kickback. The 75 had been like that from the get-go. Drove us insane trying to figure out what was going on- especially when the toe setting for both saws was dead-on. Should've just called it in- once we did, all was fixed up FAST and running 100%. Maybe even 101%. Dunno how helpful that info may be, but there is also that possibility to consider if all other factors still point to a mystery.

Before I forget, something else we've discovered about the TS saws and workpiece creep- if your blade BEGINS to dull, expect it to happen. Also make sure your guide-rail is gripping the workpiece properly. If the foam or rubber strips are starting to lose their...luster, replacing those can also make dramatic improvements, even in a slightly dull blade situation.

Jeff,

As for purchasing one of these saws, heck, do it. They're actually THAT good. As long as you're sharp, set, reference surfaces are flat, true, and you've got a straight guide, you shouldn't have any problem seeing straight and square right out of the box. If you don't, the service team will get it sorted out for you on the short order one way or another. First circ saw system I could fudge a few thousandths of a inch in adjustment without swearing.

And now...to try and find some good brackets to fix that MFT bowl we've got...not to derail the thread, but I'd welcome any any suggestions on sources and whatnot. Extrusions haven't been my lucky animal this year (well, save for the MFS, of course  8))

Best regards all  ;D

 

[Les]

As to the TS issues mentioned above, I've seen this about 5 or 6 times so far. 2 the result were user 'tippage',

Dewalt addresses the tipping problem by using 4 strips for the 4 boses on the saw base to ride on.

I added .015 nylon/teflon tape to the outside boss on the base of my TS55. This has helped the tipping but hasn't eliminated it. It does make it easier to control the tipping though.

 

[UCLA Fan]

Jeff Johnson... I can imagine this replacing a my contractor grade ridgid table saw.... if the ts55 performs as well as it should in my minds eye...

Hi Jeff

Well I might be flamed for my blasphemy BUT.... NO IT WON'T

I have a Jet 3hp table saw, a Bosch 4000 jobsite table saw and a TS55. I love all of these saws but they are really very different tools with very different pluses and minuses. I have had my TS55 for about 6 months and it is the greatest thing since sliced WOOD. It is the perfect tool for breaking down sheet goods. I have two rails one for cross cuts and one for 8' rips. In the past I used various shop made rails and a Hitachi circular saw with a Freud 40 tooth blade. I thought this system was just as good as a TS55 so I used that setup for many years and it was a fine setup indeed. Now I have the TS55 and my cuts are about the same as my old setup when breaking down sheet goods. The cuts are clean and square but they were clean and square with the Hitachi. So why do I love the TS55 if the cuts are no better? Well the setup is at least 3 times faster and far less prone to error. For this alone it was worth every penny. It also excels at dealing with long cuts as in jointing an 8 foot edge or cleaning one edge of rough or crooked lumber. great stuff. But I would never give up my table saw. There are too many things that a table saw can do better, faster, squarer then the TS55. I know many people here on the forum use their TS55/75 for just about everything but IMHO it is like using a titanium hammer to install a window. It can be done but there are better ways As in all things woodworking, sometimes it is better to bring the material to the tool and other times it is better to bring the tool to the material (i.e. Drill press vs hand drill or hand router vs router table or etc, etc,etc) You all ready own the Ridgid and unless you hate the thing it would be a waste to get rid of it. Even if you do try to join the ranks of the "TS55-is-all-things" crowd there is a definite learning curve that is time consuming and again IMHO not always worth the effort. i.e. making 50 identical 1" wide pieces. Fast and and easy on the table saw - can be done in less then 15 minutes, no jigs, no special techniques just set and go. Bottom line get the TS55 you will love it and keep the ridgid or you might regret it.

Good luck,

Frank