TS 60 Fixed Cord

[JamesA]

I have been slowly converting all my tools to Festool.  One of my favorite features has always been the removable cord.  Why does the U.S. version of the TS 60 only come with a fixed cord?  Are you abandoning the removable cords?

Please let know the reason, I have heard it is power requirements but that does not make sense to me since you are plugging in the other end and a plug capable of handling the current should be possible.

 

[Frank-Jan]

This is a weird move, on the ts55 the location of the plugit connector was a bit awkward, this is improved on the TS60 (I'm curious too about the reason for the change to a fixed cord on the US version )

(I misread your post earlier, and thought you were talking about the KS 60, where it's logical to have a fixed cord, my guess is it's a 110V thing, a lot of tools that are equiped with an electronic brake, don't have that feature on the 110V version, the "B" in the EBQ suffix)

 

[Cheese]

I'm not buying the amperage draw excuse. The TS75 has Plug-it too.
I'm going to convert mine as soon as I get it. The opening is already correct for it.

Ya, the TS 75 draws 13.33 amps while the TS 60 draws 13 amps. If the current draw is such a big deal, Festool had the perfect opportunity to replace the Plug-It on the TS 75 with a hard wired cord during the pandemic when supplies of TS 75 saw was non-existent and they actually shut down the TS 75 production line. So Festool had a good year to rectify the situation if it was really an issue, but the TS 75 returned without a single change.

The Milwaukee version Quik-Lok, supports up to 15 amps so it's certainly not an unachievable situation.

 

[bidn]

It is indeed quite weird that this TOTL saw has no détachable cable in the USA.

Actually I find it even weirder that it is corded, the current trend is to make cordless tools.
Lassume they will launch a cordless version.
.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It is indeed quite weird that this TOTL saw has no détachable cable in the USA.

Actually I find it even weirder that it is corded, the current trend is to make cordless tools.
Lassume they will launch a cordless version.
.

They might, as a follow up, but will probably give enough time to sell a few of the corded one first. [wink]
Then again, if the power draw is an issue, will they?

 

[jeh]

I'm detecting a bill of materials savings. Raw cord with the plug in only does the job of delivering power without the plug-it male and plug-it female connectors. For me I don't care as all of my other tools have traditional cords and it's never been an issue.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Me too, [member=652]JimH2[/member]. My OF2200 has a fixed cord, the Plug-It on my TS55 has never been unplugged since the day I bought it, and neither will the cord on my TS60 be. To me - they're just fixed cords. Literally everything else I own (except 3 x 22-volt Hilti cordless tools) have regular captive cords. But I work out of my van 75% of the time. Guys like CRG, who are based at a workstation and who also have a multitude of Festool tools, can work all of them using the same power cable which just unhooks from one tool and plugs straight onto another. I totally get it.

 

[mino]

[Ya, the TS 75 draws 13.33 amps while the TS 60 draws 13 amps. If the current draw is such a big deal, Festool had the perfect opportunity to replace the Plug-It on the TS 75 with a hard wired cord during the pandemic when supplies of TS 75 saw was non-existent and they actually shut down the TS 75 production line. So Festool had a good year to rectify the situation if it was really an issue, but the TS 75 returned without a single change.

The Milwaukee version Quik-Lok, supports up to 15 amps so it's certainly not an unachievable situation.

There is this difference where an (UL, etc.) approved appliance is "grandfathered" for the production run in most cases when regulation or its interpretation changes.

One can keep making the (exact) same tool even after approving a new or updated tool with same parameters becomes a no-go.

That said, this looks likely to be a sales decision. Prolly FT USA got feedback that more people are annoyed by the PlugIt system than see it as a value add. I am sure on FOG the ratio is opposite. But the TS60 will be the brand leader for Festool so they probably are shooting for wider demographic here.

Many (unknowledgeable) folks see the detachable cord as an (undesirable) "gimmick" as they see the dust extractor for their sander as a gimmick too. Everyone sands outside, right, right !? ...

The core use for PlugIt is when using the saw with a dust extractor where one has both PlugIt and the hose hanging from the arm with only the tool being changed. That is a quite common use case in the small town/city/garage shops in Europe. I guess not so common in the US ...

... the Plug-It on my TS55 has never been unplugged since the day I bought it, and neither will the cord on my TS60....

Aaand here is one cause/reason. Any small-surface pluggable connector, excepting industrial plugs which trade this for supporting only a couple hudred unplugs, needs to be periodically plugged/unplugged for safety reasons. If this is not done, over time there will be oxidation layer formed and the connector will start arcing and burn out prematurely. Plugging/unplugging once a while solves this by scratching-out a micro layer of oxidation on each insertion, "renewing" the contact surface.

It is my opinion that PlugIt, or any such small connector, would never pass safety review if one of the use cases was "permanently attached". Not at its maximum rating.

Her we have seasoned professionals convinced not re-plugging a connector for several years is OK or even desirable. Then it is quite obvious why Festool would want to limit its deployment to lower wattage tools. Aka where the safety risks are less so even when not plugged/unplugged once a while.

This would manifest mainly at 110/120V, given the twice-higher current loads. And being brushless can be the culprit as well. The better immediate torque inevitably means higher (momentary) current that a similar (rated) current brushed tool does not generate. Since arcing from bad contact happens at short periods during start or intermittent load spikes this may be unique to the brushless AC configuration while a non-issue in the "traditional" TS75 design.

 

[Cheese]

The TS75 has Plug-it too.
I'm going to convert mine as soon as I get it. The opening is already correct for it.

That's because [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] the saw was originally designed to be released with the Plug-It.  [smile]  The molds were designed for the Plug-It so the castings or molded parts all had/have the Plug-It capability. This should put a smile on your face.  [big grin]

But somewhere along the time line before the original release (or immediately after the original release) the Plug-It was eliminated and it was decided that the cord should be hard-wired to the machine instead.

Here's the evidence, these are all TS 60 KEBQ photos culled from original Festool sources.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

But here's the smoking gun...in a SYS³ Systainer no less

[attachimg=6]

 

[mino]

...
Here's the evidence, these are all TS 60 KEBQ photos culled from original Festool sources.
...
But here's the smoking gun...in a SYS³ Systainer no less]

Unfortunately these are all images of the NAINA 230V TS 60 KEBQ version, aka "the original".

The "fixed cord only" topic is for the 110V UK and the 120V US versions ...

ADD:
The UK site has a single photo set with the KEBQ version show even when you select the 110V KEB ... but when one checks the accessories list, the PlugIt is missing from the 110V KEB version.

 

[demographic]

First they changed the heights of the systainers so they don't really work properly anymore and now theyre ditxhing Plugits on a saw thats designed to be connected upto a extractor.
Its almost as if they don't even read their own catalogues.

Make a big deal about a feature then when enough people buy into it, junk i5 so all the people who thought it was important are irritated.
Fail.

 

[Cheese]

The "fixed cord only" topic is for the 110V UK and the 120V US versions ...

ADD:
The UK site has a single photo set with the KEBQ version show even when you select the 110V KEB ... but when one checks the accessories list, the PlugIt is missing from the 110V KEB version.

Thanks for that... interesting it's only the 230 volt saw that gets the Plug-It.  [scratch chin]

And that also explain why the 110/120 volt versions retain the Plug-It capability.  [smile]

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Yep. I can confirm that my 230V TS60 has a Plug-It.

The housing on the motor appears to be identical to the fixed-cable version. Just sayin' .........  [wink]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have said it before, but actually counted and took a pic today.
Woodbutcherbower had it exactly right, in his comment. I am shop-bound and on the bench every day, with a CT on each end. I use a single 16ga cable connected to both of them, the rest are sitting in a drawer. My Plug-its get plugged and unplugged very frequently. That was the reason for the comment one time about having all of the connectors facing the same direction.

I already have a Plug-it connector coming to convert it. The same part# fits both the TS55 and TS75, so I figure it will work here too. The saw is supposed to be in my hands tomorrow, but the connector my not until Wednesday.  For anyone who might be interested in voiding their warranty  [big grin] the part is 491725 and costs about $35.
I have 8 of the 18ga version and 5 of the 16ga in that pile. That doesn't even count the ones on the CTs and of course the RAS115 is hardwired. It however doesn't have the correct shape. It's an old design from before they existed.

I have heard a few "stories" about why the missing Plug-it, but none of them make sense to me.
Certainly, it's not about money. That cable can't be any less costly.
It can't be about amperage, the TS75 has it.
If the really wanted to save some money, leave the cable out entirely. Make it an additional item at the time of purchase, then it could be your choice.  At nearly $50 (as a spare part) that is quite a waste of money sitting there and I would never buy the 18ga version anyway. The 16ga fits everything.

 

[BruceC]

Just received my TS 60.

I guess I should have visited this group prior to ordering it.
I was shocked to see a hard-wired cable.

I would never have purchased the saw if I had known that.

I'm not buying the amperage BS story, either.
They had better offered a retrofit that adapts the plug it connector down the road.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Just received my TS 60.

I guess I should have visited this group prior to ordering it.
I was shocked to see a hard-wired cable.

I would never have purchased the saw if I had known that.

I'm not buying the amperage BS story, either.
They had better offered a retrofit that adapts the plug it connector down the road.

Over to you, [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] ................

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Just received my TS 60.

I guess I should have visited this group prior to ordering it.
I was shocked to see a hard-wired cable.

I would never have purchased the saw if I had known that.

I'm not buying the amperage BS story, either.
They had better offered a retrofit that adapts the plug it connector down the road.

[member=76663]BruceC[/member]
It's an easy modification, that you shouldn't have to make.  [unsure]
I'm not buying the "reasons" either, but the housing is obviously set-up for it.
#491725 will cost you about $35, but it makes a big difference for guys like me, who switch tools out on the same cable all day.

 

[peter halle]

Just received my TS 60.

I guess I should have visited this group prior to ordering it.
I was shocked to see a hard-wired cable.

I would never have purchased the saw if I had known that.

I'm not buying the amperage BS story, either.
They had better offered a retrofit that adapts the plug it connector down the road.

Welcome to the Forum!  Sorry to read of your surprise at a permanent cord.  Obviously if it bothers you enough you have the ability to return the saw under the trial period according to the rules of that program.  Yes, someone here has found an alternative, but that person also understands the pros and cons of doing so.

Hope you enjoy your saw if you do decide to keep it!

Peter

 

[ChuckM]

I'd rather return the saw than risk losing the warranty with a modification, if the cord issue is indeed so critical to its use.

 

[squall_line]

I'd rather return the saw than risk losing the warranty with a modification, if the cord issue is indeed so critical to its use.

Or if it's used in a setting in which UL approval is meaningful.

Although I do have to say, this forum isn't the only place that the fixed cord is mentioned.  Sedge brought it up during the Festool Live episode that included the TS60 and other previews mentioned similar things.