TS-75 rip cut with stock blade, 1.75” red oak

[ericsink]

The TS-75 is new-ish to me, and I’m preparing for a bunch of hardwood rip cuts, so I got the panther blade.  But I figured maybe first I should try a test cut with the stock blade, for comparison purposes.  So I ripped a thin strip off a 3 foot red oak board, 1.75 inches thick.

I thought this was an unfair test, but I’m actually rather impressed.  I took it slow, but the saw didn’t seem to have much trouble.  No burning.  Some blade marks, but overall the cut is pretty clean.

Granted, this board would actually be within the range of a TS-55, so it isn’t THAT thick.  And red oak isn’t THAT hard.

Still, way better than I expected.  Not bad at all.

 

[mino]

The TS-75 is new-ish to me, and I’m preparing for a bunch of hardwood rip cuts, so I got the panther blade.  But I figured maybe first I should try a test cut with the stock blade, for comparison purposes.  So I ripped a thin strip off a 3 foot red oak board, 1.75 inches thick.

I thought this was an unfair test, but I’m actually rather impressed.  I took it slow, but the saw didn’t seem to have much trouble.  No burning.  Some blade marks, but overall the cut is pretty clean.

Granted, this board would actually be within the range of a TS-55, so it isn’t THAT thick.  And red oak isn’t THAT hard.

Still, way better than I expected.  Not bad at all.

Note the Panther blades are *not* designed for a clean cut, they focus purely on a fast&dirty ripping cut. If you do not leave proper width leeway to allow for the needed sanding or planing, you may be unpleasantly surprised. The "normal" wood blades are what you want for pretty much any furniture cuts. The Panther blade is dedicated for those special cases even the 18T "Standard" blade struggles with.

In this case, the 18T "Standard" blade would have been the one to get. But do get at least the 36T "Universal" blade into your collection eventually. That is the one for 90%+ of cuts one would make with the TS 75. The included 52T "Fine Cut" blade is really the right choice only for cross cuts and special cases. The "go-to" blades should be the "Universal" one with the "Standard" blade for those thick rips.

The limitations of the Panther blades are not communicated well by Festool, is more of tribal knowledge.

 

[onocoffee]

[member=61254]mino[/member] - would this be true of blades for the TS55? That the 18T is the ideal for clean ripping?

 

[bobtskutter]

The panther blade for the TS75 also has a thicker kerf than the normal blades so it will recut your splinter guard.

Bob

 

[mino]

[member=61254]mino[/member] - would this be true of blades for the TS55? That the 18T is the ideal for clean ripping?

Yes.*)

All the Panther blades are meant for speed first and foremost. Hence the "Panther" name, by the fastest animal ..

Nothing wrong with them, they are great for fast/difficult rips. Just important to be aware what one is buying.

---
*)
Now, to be precise, it depends what you mean by "ideal". Ideal for the cut quality? No. The 48/42T ones do that. Ideal for best cut performance while (still) striving for a clean cut? Yes.

In practice, the "Universal" blades, when sharp, tend to be pretty close in cut quality to the "Fine Cut" blades. Good-enough for cross-cutting wood (as in excellent in comparison to most other blades on the market) while allowing for reasonably fast ripping. The "Standard" or "less-teeth-than-Universal-but-not-the-Panther-geometry" blades strive to still provide a mostly clean cut while shooting for best performance within that constraint. But you cannot completely ignore the rake angle and teeth count. These do matter.

What makes the Panther blades so performant, in comparison, are their extremely aggressive teeth angles and the "backs" of the teeth not restricting the individual tooth cut depth. These combine for top performance but are also what negatively affects blade stability, preventing a really clean cut to be made.

 

[ericsink]

[member=61254]mino[/member] That’s good info about the 18T blade.

I tried the same cut as above with the panther, and it drove through the wood more quickly, of course. And yeah, it leaves a rough edge, but I kinda expected that from a 16 tooth rip blade.

BTW, the blade I got with my TS-75 actually IS the 36 tooth. It says W36 and 495380 on it.

 

[ericsink]

The panther blade for the TS75 also has a thicker kerf than the normal blades so it will recut your splinter guard.

Bob

Hmmm.  I think I’ve read that blades on the TS-75 with different kerf widths don’t actually recut the splinter guard because it’s the right side of the blade that has moved, not the left side.  I’m not certain which is correct though.

 

[semenza]

[member=61254]mino[/member] That’s good info about the 18T blade.

I tried the same cut as above with the panther, and it drove through the wood more quickly, of course. And yeah, it leaves a rough edge, but I kinda expected that from a 16 tooth rip blade.

BTW, the blade I got with my TS-75 actually IS the 36 tooth. It says W36 and 495380 on it.

Yeah, that is the Universal ( aka combination blade ) blade. Pretty good ripping / pretty good crosscutting.  I believe that is the one supplied with TS75. On the TS55 the Fine blade is supplied.

I have found that using the term "standard" when it comes to Festool and blades can be misleading in discussions.

Seth

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

The panther blade for the TS75 also has a thicker kerf than the normal blades so it will recut your splinter guard.

Bob

Hmmm.  I think I’ve read that blades on the TS-75 with different kerf widths don’t actually recut the splinter guard because it’s the right side of the blade that has moved, not the left side.  I’m not certain which is correct though.

Hi Eric,

You're mostly correct, in that the majority of the additional kerf will be outboard of the track, but a wider kerf will necessarily be very slightly wider on the track- side as well. That being said, most blades will experience varying degrees of deflection different materials, so the splinter guards will eventually degrade to the point where they are no longer representing the "exact" point of the cut.

At that point, it boils down to your process and expected tolerances. For absolute precision, I'll rip materials slightly oversized at the band saw, then perform final sizing using my thickness planer or shaper with an outboard fence. When using a rail, you may find you have greater consistency using methods other than the splinter guard, but again it really just depends on what level of precision you're looking for.

In the past, I would keep a set of tracks set aside with pretty chewed-up splinter-strips for rough work (ripping down 8/4 hardwoods, cutting roof sheathing, etc...), and kept a few tracks in reserve with pristine splinter strips for tasks that really did require a more precise representation of the cut line (cutting finished doors).

Remember that the spinner guard is just that, a strip of plastic to help reduce tear-out/splinters, with a secondary benefit of providing a visual indication of the cut line. It's also a wear item, so I'd suggest not being precious about it. Use the tools to cut wood, if/when the splinter guard is no longer serving your needs just remove and replace it and get back to being creative and productive.

 

[Cheese]

[member=61254]mino[/member] - would this be true of blades for the TS55? That the 18T is the ideal for clean ripping?

Not exactly the same thing but...this is the 12T Panther vs the 28T Universal blade ripping 1-3/4 aromatic cedar with a TSC 55 R. Panther on top, Universal on bottom.

[attachimg=1]

 

[mino]

...
You're mostly correct, in that the majority of the additional kerf will be outboard of the track, but a wider kerf will necessarily be very slightly wider on the track- side as well.
...

Not so. At least not always.

The 1.8 mm (kerf)/1.2 mm (body) blades for the TS 55 F and the 2.2/1.6 ones for the TS 55 R have the same kerf-body difference, hence the exact same cut line. Similar with the the CMT 1.7/1.1 thin blades. I even have a Pilana 2.8/2.2 aluminium blade which, again, has the same cut line.

On the other hand, an old "abrasive materials" blade of mine with a 2.8 kerf but an 1.8 mm body I indeed cannot use without messing up my splinter guard ..

...
I have found that using the term "standard" when it comes to Festool and blades can be misleading in discussions.

Seth

What I find much worse is calling the very specific Panther blades "Rip Cut blade".

I myself bought the 12T one that way only to be angry for wasting my money and time. Made few cuts with (for the project) unacceptable results, then passed on the blade for 2/3 the price. Went to emergency-search for alternatives, found a local blade maker. Not buying Festool blades since.

This is how the blades should be named, to not confuse:

Fine Cut  =>  Fine Cut
Universal  => Universal (also Standard would be a good name here) => should ship with all saws
Standard => Rip Cut
Rip cut  => Panther (Fast Rip Cut)

The problems today:
The "Standard" name is used for a blade which is NOT a good choice for the vast majority of cuts with a tracksaw. It is also kinda a synonym with "Universal", not to mention that by "default/standard" the "Fine Cut" blades are shipped with the smaller saws.

The "Rip Cut" name is openly misleading as it indicates these are the blades to use for rip cuts which is very much NOT a good idea for most users. Many customers are unhappy as a result and do not go buy the *proper* "Standard" blade they needed. Instead, better scenario, switch blade suppliers (my case). The worse scenario is to blame the very bad cut quality on the saw ..

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

...
You're mostly correct, in that the majority of the additional kerf will be outboard of the track, but a wider kerf will necessarily be very slightly wider on the track- side as well.
...

Not so. At least not always.

The 1.8 mm (kerf)/1.2 mm (body) blades for the TS 55 F and the 2.2/1.6 ones for the TS 55 R have the same kerf-body difference, hence the exact same cut line. Similar with the the CMT 1.7/1.1 thin blades. I even have a Pilana 2.8/2.2 aluminium blade which, again, has the same cut line.

On the other hand, an old "abrasive materials" blade of mine with a 2.8 kerf but an 1.8 mm body I indeed cannot use without messing up my splinter guard ..

Hi Mino,

You're correct, insofar as the specific blades you've referenced, but ultimately I suppose the most precise answer would be "it depends". On the blades you've referenced, then "yes" the cut line should be the same. On other blades, the manufacturer may not be balancing the plate/kerf difference, so in those cases, "no".

My memory (which of course is fallible) is that the older (early 2000s) Festool blades did not balance the plate/kerf, so swapping a blade may remove additional material from the  splinter strip. To be clear, the difference was a  tiny fraction of a mm, but noticeable, particularly with the old black splinter strips where all of a sudden I'd notice black specks coming off a well-used splinter strip. Thanks for the heads-up on the newer blades, I learn something new every day  [cool]

 

[Cheese]

In the past, I would keep a set of tracks set aside with pretty chewed-up splinter-strips for rough work (ripping down 8/4 hardwoods, cutting roof sheathing, etc...), and kept a few tracks in reserve with pristine splinter strips for tasks that really did require a more precise representation of the cut line (cutting finished doors).

Remember that the spinner guard is just that, a strip of plastic to help reduce tear-out/splinters, with a secondary benefit of providing a visual indication of the cut line. It's also a wear item, so I'd suggest not being precious about it. Use the tools to cut wood, if/when the splinter guard is no longer serving your needs just remove and replace it and get back to being creative and productive.

This is what Tom was referring to, a chewed up splinter strip. It's not really bad as I've certainly had worse, but it is the beginning of a down hill slide.

Any position along the rail that appears to be more than 1 mm out, I'll mark with an arrow so that I don't use that area to line up with a pencil cut line. As the splinter strip gets more chewed up, I'll continue to highlight the bad areas and when I feel there are too many arrows on the rail, I'll remove the splinter strip, wipe both sides down with acetone and attach a new strip.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Michael Kellough]

“The panther blade for the TS75 also has a thicker kerf than the normal blades so it will recut your splinter guard.”  Bob

“All the Panther blades are meant for speed first and foremost. Hence the "Panther" name, by the fastest animal ..”  mino

So if Festool makes a thin kerf ripping blade they’ll call it Cheetah?

 

[ericsink]

the same kerf-body difference, hence the exact same cut line

Hmmm.  The 16 and 18 tooth blades for the TS-75 DO have a different kerf-body difference from the 36 tooth blade that comes with the saw, which probably means I altered the splinter guard on that rail by using the Panther.  I'm going to try not to obsess over that.

The problems today:
The "Standard" name is used for a blade which is NOT a good choice for the vast majority of cuts with a tracksaw.

Yep -- that's what happened for me.  I went to the Festool website, and the only blade for the TS-75 which is described as being for rip cuts is the 16 tooth, so that's what I bought.  I noticed the "Standard" blade and wondered what it would be for, but didn't look further.

Maybe I'll keep the Panther in case I need it, but on the way to work today I stopped at my dealer and got an 18 tooth as well.  I plan to try it on the same board and compare results.

Maybe I should get the crosscut blade to complete my set.  [big grin]

I started this thread by observing that the 36 tooth universal blade is surprisingly good, and others here have confirmed that it should be probably the most commonly used blade for the TS-75.  Maybe I'll end up just always using that one.  I tend to do something similar with my cabinet saw, where I have a Forrest Woodworker II and I rarely use anything else.

 

[Cheese]

Hmmm.  The 16 and 18 tooth blades for the TS-75 DO have a different kerf-body difference from the 36 tooth blade that comes with the saw, which probably means I altered the splinter guard on that rail by using the Panther.  I'm going to try not to obsess over that.

You're right...that's interesting because when Festool first introduced the new thin kerf blades circa 2021 for the new TS 55 K saw with uniform kerf widths, there was talk about doing the same thing with the TS 75 saw blades to eliminate the splinter strip cutting issue. Obviously that never happened because the current TS 75 blades have the same part numbers they had back in 2013.

 

[ericsink]

…which probably means I altered the splinter guard on that rail by using the Panther.  I'm going to try not to obsess over that.

Well, my effort to not obsess over this?  Complete failure.

I’m out in my shop this evening, so I looked closely to see if I could spot any difference, and yes I can. It’s actually rather obvious.

This particular guide rail is an FS 1900. I originally trimmed the splinter guard with the stock blade, but the test rip cut I did yesterday with the panther blade was a shorter board, so I can see where I plunged in and out.

I’m attaching a picture which shows the area near the end of this guide rail. The “notch” toward the right is from when originally trimmed the splinter guard with the universal blade.  The smaller notch toward the left is the point where the panther blade lifted up at the end of the cut.

 

[mino]

...
I’m attaching a picture which shows the area near the end of this guide rail. The “notch” toward the right is from when originally trimmed the splinter guard with the universal blade.  The smaller notch toward the left is the point where the panther blade lifted up at the end of the cut.

That difference is far more than the kerf difference - which is 0.1 mm (0.004") and should be (mostly) imperceptible.

Looks like 0.5 mm or so, is certainly not (just) from the kerf difference. That would be from the lack of a lateral stability of the Panther blade, could also be from the cams not being properly tuned for the track, so the saw is riding too loose.

As you now got the 18T blade, which should be also 2.6/1.8, can you try with that, doing a "middle of the road" length cut ?

Also, measuring the actual teeth kerf and body (at arbor) of the blades would be great. One thing is the spec, other may be the actual blade sample. On this, as I remember the Panther blades have the teeth a bit eccentric, i.e. the teeth are narrower slightly and offset to "their" side, while the "normal" clean cut blades have full-width teeth making those blades more stable.
---
It is rare one has an opportunity to see this manifested almost like a planned test with all-new blades, saw and splinter guard. Would be great to have documented .. there is $500 involved in three brand-new blades and a new track, even ignoring the saw cost.

 

[bobtskutter]

I think that's roughly what happened with my Panther blade on the TS75.  It's kinda trimmed enough to catch your finger nail on.

It may be worth mentioning that if the saw is "toe'd in" (the riving knife side of the blade has a tiny gap behind it) then setting the depth more than normal will trim away more splinter guard.  I've not really explained that very well.

The blade isn't parallel to the splinter guard, so the more you plunge it the closer it gets to the splinter guard.

Bob

 

[ericsink]

That difference is far more than the kerf difference - which is 0.1 mm (0.004") and should be (mostly) imperceptible.

Looks like 0.5 mm or so, is certainly not (just) from the kerf difference.

Agreed.  I should say that on the other end of the cut, the notch is much smaller, but still clearly visible.

Would be great to have documented ..

Yes. I plan to gather a bit more info and then organize what I’ve learned.