TS 75

[kwolfe]

Just this week I had the choice of buying a sawstop contractor model or a track saw. The main reason for going this direction was safety. With my kids getting older and around the shop more I decided the extra money was worth it.

With that said, I wound up deciding to get a ts75 and mft to replace my table saw. I had read great reviews about the cut quality and engineering. Like I said, I'm a hobbiest so time is not of the essence. Well I must say that after just a few cuts, the festool is getting return to the store.

I am making a boot bench for my foyer which required me cutting some birch plywood that I bought at Home Depot I know it's no the best but it's good enough for painted work. Using the TS75, I proceeded to cross cut three pieces for the bench carcass. The first piece was without the splinter guard and the tare out was pretty bad on the off cut side. The next two cuts were done win the splinter guard in. On the first of these two, I just plunged and made the cut. Still , tare out was not great or nearly what I expected from a $700 saw. On the final cut I took two passes. The first was very shallow and the second to finish the cut. With this technique, the result were much improve show it was a much more of a hassle than I expected from such and expensive tool.  I have heard that you need to plunge to near full depth to get the benefit of the splinter guard which seems to be a draw back to the festool.

Maybe my expectations were too high for the tool. However considering that you can buy a nice table saw for the cost of just the saw and the track (not even counting the mft) I'm not sure I made the right decision. Therefore, I think a sawstop is now in my future. If I need a track saw, I found a deal on dewalt with two tracks for just under $600 shipped.

Please don't mistake any of this for festool bashing as that's not my intent. Just trying to give a very novice but unbiased opinion. Thanks

 

[peter halle]

Sorry to hear that your experience wasn't up to your expectations.  Normally I would try and give advice, but your post indicates that your mind is made up.

All the best to you.  The Sawstop products have quite a reputation.

Peter

 

[Michael Kellough]

You'll seldom get a clean cut if you use the wrong blade.

The TS 75 is meant for thicker stock so it ships with a 36 tooth "Universal" blade.
"36 tooth; 2.4mm kerf; 30mm arbor; 15 deg hook angle; ATB
Clean cutting general purpose blade for wood and soft plastics; fine rip cut blade for glue-ready joints"

Crosscutting the thin veneer of home center plywood requires a finer blade.
"52 tooth; 2.4mm kerf; 30mm arbor; 8 deg hook angle; ATB
Cross-cut blade for smooth cuts in veneered plywood, sheet goods, melamine, and hard and soft woods"

I'm sure you'd get better results with the 52 tooth blade.
Crosscutting plywood with a rip blade on the Sawstop will tearout just as bad.

For cutting plywood the TS 55 is the better choice. It ships with a blade meant for that purpose.

 

[abgoto]

Making a decision after three cuts seems a bit short sighted. For starters, the TS 55 is the better tool for the job than the TS 75. I assume by "tare out" you mean "tear out". Using a TS 55 on good quality plywood, I have experienced zero tear out. If safety really is your primary concern, a track saw is far safer than any table saw (including SawStop) when cutting sheets of plywood. While the SawStop will not cut off your fingers, it will still kick back if you bind the blade with a sheet of plywood.  If you are set on returning your saw, ask your dealer for a demonstration to determine if his results are the same as yours.

 

[waho6o9]

TS55 with a plywood blade for plywood

TS75 with a Panther blade for ripping

[wink]

 

[kwolfe]

Well I haven't returned the saw yet but I think that's the direction I'm going. I also detect some wobble in the saw when on the track. Not shifting side to side but as if the bottom were convex. I found that is how the saw rides on the green rail pads.

Also, I realize that I could probably use a better blade for this purpose however I used a 50tooth 10" freud combo blade on my old table saw with a zero clearance insert and got near tear free results. I realize that the 55 is better suited for sheet goods but I bought the 75 because I wanted to have more versatility. Definitely can't afford both. Would be nice though.

 

[kcasser]

I also am not trying to change your mind, but I bought the TS55 last year, and I feel it is far safer and easier cutting down sheet goods than my Unisaw. I take a piece of foam board, lay it on the floor, put the ply on top and cut to any size I want. Especially with heavy ply like 3/4", this system is a godsend. I also use it to rip long 5/4 poplar boards into 1-1/4" rails. I used to do that on my bandsaw thinking the thinner blade would make less waste, but if it strayed in the cut at all, it turned into a mess. Plus, with stock that heavy, it was challenging at the end of the cut keeping the board under control without running my hand through the blade. I ended up buying the rip blade because the stock TS-55 blade was bogging down. Now my cuts are straight, accurate, safe, and I'm very impressed. I had a regular circular saw for years that sat in the closet, and I expected the same with this. On the contrary, I use it all the time. And, I have a customer who does his paintings on board which then need to be sized for framing. I can lay the track on top of the artwork and trim exactly where I want to without compromising the art. Much more difficult on a table saw.

 

[roblg3]

Sorry you had a bad experience.  Your results aren't typical.  I have both the 55 and 75 and believe the 75 is the superior saw.more power quieter and easy to plow through thick materials.  when you take your saw back, i agree you should ask for a demo.  maybe the saw is defective.  manufacturing has errors.did you adjust the gibs on the saw to tune it to the track?  I've had many tools over my career in construction and Festool by far outperforms in just about every single category.  these are precision machines and take a little fine tuning to get the different components operating fantastic.  Sawstop is a very good table saw, but a tracksaw is safer for processing  large sheet goods.  Best of luck with your situation!....oh yeah [welcome] to the FOG.  You can learn a LOT here  [wink]

 

[sancho57]

Did you set the saw up properly before you started cutting? Did you adj it to the guide rails. There are 2 jibs on te side of TS to take the slack out of it so it wont wobble on the track. 2nd did you cut the splinter guard on the gulde rail prior to start ripping the ply?
Festool is a great system, but there is some adjustments ad technique to using the saw and guide rail.

I suggest going to festool tv and watch some of the videos on setting up the saw as well as some of the techniques to use the saw.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have a TS55 and  Sawstop Industrial table saw. For my work, they each have an optimal use. The TS55 shines at breaking down plywood sheets. I get very smooth cuts using the Festool rail. I did spend some time adjusting the TS55 to fit snugly on the rail and to get the splinter guard at the right height. My dual MFT comes into play for cutting smaller pieces with the track saw.

The Sawstop Industrial is a splendid tool, but I feel the track saw is much safer for breaking down plywood.

 

[amt]

You are correct about the full depth on the splinter guard for the TS75 for the off-cut side.  Quite simply, with the exception of power and cutting depth, the TS75 is inferior to the TS55 req.  The 55 has better dust collection, a better [included] blade for cross cutting, and easier to handle.  For both saws, cutting on the rail requires practice and careful attention to applying even pressure with the saw.  For no bevel cuts it's easy to master it after a while. but you still always have remember to keep proper balance and use both hands.  For bevels cuts, I am still not confident in the cuts I make, in spite of very careful approach.

The bottom line is that the track saw is not a replacement for a table saw, and a table saw is not a replacement for a track saw.  IMO, you can do more with a table saw (far more), and there's only a couple things I feel a table saw can't do that a track saw does with ease (for example, cutting a sheet of plywood diagonally from one corner to another).  If I could only have one, I would have the table saw and would use appropriate in/out feed tables to deal with plywood.  Luckily I can have both for now.

 

[woodie]

There's another thread somewhere that talks about the TS75 rocking on the rails anti-friction strips. It certainly did it on mine, even with the jibs tightened properly. I never noticed it on the TS55 but I think it had to do with the reduced height of the saw. Less leverage to make it rock?You definitely have to be careful with your "form" when pushing the TS75.

As far as finish cut quality the 52 tooth Fine blade leaves a remarkably clean cut, even on delicate veneers.

 

[kwolfe]

Really interesting input. I had the saw dialed in well as far as the slop on the track. The rocking was on the green strips. Sounds like technique would solve this problem but I figured for the price of the saw, technique for cutting square should not have even been an issue.

I realize now that a better blade could also have made a difference but it's also interesting to here the comparison to the ts55 and the splinter guard and stability comparison. Anyway, the saw sadly went back yesterday.

Now my real dilemma. Table saw or big band saw plus track saw (between dewalt and ts55). I would skip the mft this time but probably buy a replacement top to make my own. I figure I could get a good 17" bandsaw and the track saw for the price of the sawstop contractor saw.

 

[rljatl]

FWIW, I have a TS75 and like it a lot.  Never had a problem with it rocking or with its weight.  I use the Festool plywood/veneer blade when cutting ply and it leaves a very clean cut.  No complaints at all and I am happy that I sold my table saw.

 

[rst]

If you are rocking, it has to be from side pressure... make sure the pressure is down and straight forward.

 

[grbmds]

In general, I'd echo what others have said. I did use a TS75 for awhile; a short time. I went back to the TS55REQ and have never been sorry. The TS55 is much more suited to hobbyists, regardless of level, I think. It's lighter, more maneuverable, the cut seems to be better (although others are right about using a blade meant for smooth cuts), and I have not yet found a situation where I have needed the extra depth or power of the TS75. I was replacing my old table saw and had planned on getting a Sawstop. To this point, I don't regret buying the TS55 instead. I have made picture frames for which the miters cut on the TS55 were the best I've ever cut; most accurate and the frame fit together better than any I've ever made. While there are posts on the FOG about accuracy and squareness which would give readers pause when considering buying the TS55 and MFT, I have not had these problems. It's all about adjusting to the differences in using a track saw versus table saw. While there are those who feel that you cannot do without a table saw, I'm trying and, to date, have been successful. The accuracy and results with the TS55 have sold me on the track saw concept as an alternative.

 

[amt]

Unless you need to resaw wood, I would not get a large bandsaw right off the bat.  Try a 10" bandsaw like the Rikon or Craftsman (for $200) and you might find it can do just about every task (except the resaw).

So, my personal preference would be: Table saw, 10" band saw, low cost track saw -if that's what my budget would allow.  If I could afford more, I'd go for a more expensive track saw like the TS55req.

Also, have you seen the Triton track saw? Looks quite nice and not that expensive.

 

[grbmds]

Really interesting input. I had the saw dialed in well as far as the slop on the track. The rocking was on the green strips. Sounds like technique would solve this problem but I figured for the price of the saw, technique for cutting square should not have even been an issue.

I realize now that a better blade could also have made a difference but it's also interesting to here the comparison to the ts55 and the splinter guard and stability comparison. Anyway, the saw sadly went back yesterday.

Now my real dilemma. Table saw or big band saw plus track saw (between dewalt and ts55). I would skip the mft this time but probably buy a replacement top to make my own. I figure I could get a good 17" bandsaw and the track saw for the price of the sawstop contractor saw.

If you are sold on the table saw concept (as many are) a band saw won't replace it and you may have difficulty just working with a TS55 with no table saw. I do use the bandsaw more without my table saw than before (Although I actually still have not sold the old table saw, I have not used it since buyhing the TS55.) A 17" bandsaw seems overkill, though. For resawing, it would be rare that you would need anything with a capacity larger than 11" - 12"; not even that most of the time. It's very hard to find hardwood that is wider that about 8"  (Even that is hard; more like 6" or 6+".) So that means power would be the only issue and almost any 14" bandsaw would handle resawing. A 14" 1 1/2 HP should do whatever you want as long as you spend the time to do the proper setup. Stockroom Supply has a jig for resawing which is amazing, but pricey if you want almost foolproof resawing.

 

[Birdhunter]

You mentioned the Sawstop Contractor as an option. My unsolicited advice is to skip the Contractor model and buy either the Professional or Industrial model unless you need the portability. There is a huge step up between the Contractor model and the Professional model. There is a lesser but still big step up from the Professional to the Industrial model.

The Industrial model was my replacement for a 20 year old Delta Unisaw. It is an amazing tool. The features and build quality are amazing.

The TS55, MFT, alongside the Sawstop provide excellent complementary features.

 

[mikewaters]

I got the ts75 last week
My cuts on maple plywood are perfect, using the blade that came with the saw.
Must be user error.

My guess is one of two things,
Either you are not putting the speed on 6.
Or you are not letting it gain full speed before you make the plunge.

I do both and cuts are perfect with just the splinter guard on rail and the one on saw.[attachimg=1]