TS55 or MT55
- Thread starter dusteater
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dusteater said:
Welcome to the forum! [smile]
If you are not working with more than 4/4 hardwoods except for the odd occasion I don't think you will want / need the TS75. I have one in addition to the TS55, but I used the TS55 for many years before I added the TS75. I added the TS75 for more rip capacity and efficiency of not needing to change blades (just garb different saw). But I am doing this work professionally and decided it was worth having both saws. Either one would be a good choice. The TS75 is going to be a bit more all purpose. The choice just depends if you will need that "all purpose" capability often enough to warrant the additional cost and weight. Yes, the weight doesn't matter much on the track but you still have to pick it up, handle, maneuver it. It isn't like it is a giant beast either though. In all cases be sure to get the proper blades for different tasks.
Have you been able to check them out in person?
I have not used a Mafell MT55. It certainly looks like a quality piece of equipment with good features. I am pretty sure the Mafell warranty (in the USA) is one year. I don't know if there is a try and return it if you don't like guarantee or not. That would make me want to give the Festool a try first if it is not doing what you want you can send it back. I did notice in your first post that you mentioned limited funds, that too could be a reason to try the Festool first.
Seth
I had a TS55 and have TS75 and MT55. All three are great saws, but my go to is the MT55. If you have Festool Rails you can use them with the it or you can purchase their rails which have some better design features (splinter strip and rail connector), but are not as heavy duty as the Festool rails. I have not done a bend test on them, but it is obvious the Festool ones are more rigid. The TS75 is a bit heavy for everyday use it and I use it only when I need deeper cuts than the MT55 can do.
Mafell does not make anywhere the near the number of tools Festool does, but they are meticulous about what they do make. They also have some pretty innovative products. Their jig saw is the best one I have used and bought to replace a Carvex that I was sorely disappointed with. I also have their Duo Doweler which is the equivalent of the Domino with some differences, but they each have their pluses. The advantages of the Duo Doweler are the same tool does dowels from 5mm to 16mm and their drilling template which is used for spacing dowels equally and for shelf holes. Short of a dedicated shelf hole drilling machine their system cannot be beat. The Festool one leaves a lot to be desired. Their have been many debates over dominos, dowels and biscuits.
Other than those 3 Mafell tools I mostly Festool except for stationary tools and a couple of drills.
Mafell does not make anywhere the near the number of tools Festool does, but they are meticulous about what they do make. They also have some pretty innovative products. Their jig saw is the best one I have used and bought to replace a Carvex that I was sorely disappointed with. I also have their Duo Doweler which is the equivalent of the Domino with some differences, but they each have their pluses. The advantages of the Duo Doweler are the same tool does dowels from 5mm to 16mm and their drilling template which is used for spacing dowels equally and for shelf holes. Short of a dedicated shelf hole drilling machine their system cannot be beat. The Festool one leaves a lot to be desired. Their have been many debates over dominos, dowels and biscuits.
Other than those 3 Mafell tools I mostly Festool except for stationary tools and a couple of drills.
Tom the Remodeler
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The nice thing about the MT-55cc is that it is compatible with both styles of guide rails. I agree with the assessment that, on their own, the Mafell tracks are superior to the Festool tracks. The anti splinter edge is easier to change and is more durable, much easier to join tracks, self aligning track connector, smaller/lighter tracks, etc....
For most day-to-day cutting I use my MT-55cc on the Mafell tracks, but I can still use the saw on my MFT-3 cutting station, and I have a FS1900 and Parallel Guides for making repeated rips.
I think it's a bit of a false idea that the Festool "system" fall apart if you introduce other tools. I have a handful of Festool tracks to use to with Festool routers and MT-55cc, but also use my Mafell tracks for my Mafell saws (MT-55cc, KSS-400, KSS-300, P1ccc, hopefully someday a KSS-80 and MF-26cc). Rather than settling, buy the best equipment for a given task that you can afford, then be creative about getting everything to play nice.
For most day-to-day cutting I use my MT-55cc on the Mafell tracks, but I can still use the saw on my MFT-3 cutting station, and I have a FS1900 and Parallel Guides for making repeated rips.
I think it's a bit of a false idea that the Festool "system" fall apart if you introduce other tools. I have a handful of Festool tracks to use to with Festool routers and MT-55cc, but also use my Mafell tracks for my Mafell saws (MT-55cc, KSS-400, KSS-300, P1ccc, hopefully someday a KSS-80 and MF-26cc). Rather than settling, buy the best equipment for a given task that you can afford, then be creative about getting everything to play nice.
I feel any of these I can't go wrong. I have to wait until after tax time to see how I fare. This year I do not know. I read about the duo dowel machine from Mafell. It is really nice for a nice price. I have no problem getting the TS55 but given the choice if I can I would buy t he MT55. It will be a couple months. Can"t do much outside this time of year anyway.All the good info on tracksaws I have gotten from this site. Have not read one forum here that talks bad about festool and is not open to other brands. I see honesty and kindness towards all that enter here. Worth a lot. I am not a professional but have a lot of woodworking experience Just a little rusty is all. Back in the days with my old fourty sum craftsman tablesaw,radial arm saw and Belsaw planer joiner PC router and BD beltsander I was a happy man.
Birdhunter
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The only Festool that I would worry about on a long extension cord would be either the Kapex miter saw or the 2200 router driving a big bit.
If you buy the Mafell, please let us know about the experience. I've been intrigued but not bought due to not being able to handle the tools before buying. We have 3 dealers in my area and one even has a shop where one can actually play with the tools.
I have a shop full of Festool tools and I enjoy using them. The only one that has significantly changed my woodworking is the Domino. Every few years, I might use dowels or biscuits. All the other times I use Dominos.
If you buy the Mafell, please let us know about the experience. I've been intrigued but not bought due to not being able to handle the tools before buying. We have 3 dealers in my area and one even has a shop where one can actually play with the tools.
I have a shop full of Festool tools and I enjoy using them. The only one that has significantly changed my woodworking is the Domino. Every few years, I might use dowels or biscuits. All the other times I use Dominos.
I will let you know if I go that way. Not sure at this point funds rule the purchase. I know it will be a couple months probably. If I am sure I will do a lot of sheet cutting and just some hardwood for tops of desk and cabnets then I might chose TS55 , but the MT55 has some really nice features and more power. I found out a lumber CO. 9 miles from me can order baltic birch do not know price yet or grade but if it is good I will use it a lot. Good thing is they will deliver it to my home.
Dane
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One other option to consider is importing the Bosch track saw from the U.K. I had the same dilemma as you and went that way. It's a good compromise between the Festool and the Mafell. The bosch is made by Mafell, uses the same tracks, has the same motor as the 55. Pretty easy to order from Amazon UK. I've owned all the Festool saws and like the Bosh just as well, with the big advantage of the superior track system and better motor. The blades are a lot cheaper too- even with overseas shipping. Have to change the plug and warranty service might be an issue, but I realized the I've never had to send any of my saws for service and for the reduced price, I was willing to take the risk.
I will also add that I leave my options open. Even though I have power to use I have read about the TSC55 cordless version and it seems to have as much power or more than the TS55. I like the dust bag and because I work in my drive way it would also allow me to work in my back yard pattio. I have read alot about brushless motors sense dewalt came out with there tablesaw. They seem to be pretty efficent on how they use their power. I am not one who will ever be cutting all day so I am sure it would last for the durations I use it. You might ask me why would you go that way. Well not having a cord to deal with being able to take it somewhere else if I get on the wife's bad side which I do might be nice. Not opossed to the TS55 just something I have thought about. Now when it comes to the MT55 route then none of that matters I am buying for the features of the saw and the power.
On the extension cords .... use a heavy enough gauge ( like 10ga or 12ga ) and you won't have problems unless your trying to go 500 feet or something.
The TSC55 is very nice. I have not used it enough to say if it has more power or cuts more easily than the TS55. But it certainly does cut well. The DC on it with the bag is very good. But not as good as with a vac attached. But if you are working outside it is probably good enough. And you can always use it with a vac when needed. I forget how many feet of 3/4" material can be cut before emptying the bag.
Seth
The TSC55 is very nice. I have not used it enough to say if it has more power or cuts more easily than the TS55. But it certainly does cut well. The DC on it with the bag is very good. But not as good as with a vac attached. But if you are working outside it is probably good enough. And you can always use it with a vac when needed. I forget how many feet of 3/4" material can be cut before emptying the bag.
Seth
I am not sure. If it was here in US i would be more inclined to took a good look at it. Bosch makes good tools. The Mafell saw is very pricy so I will think hard before i buy one. I will not be using it as much as a contracter or or cabinet maker would so it is not about justifying the cost I can't. SO from there it is just buying the best I can have so I am satisfied with no regrets later wondering what if or if there are regrets I make a choice. When I was doing Photography It was nothing to spend 2000 on a camera I did it once. Only thing that has changed Retired on fixed income. That is why it becomes more difficult to spend as I once did. I would have no problem if I could spending 3000.00 or more to set up. I have this passion for woodworking. After twenty some years of going without it it is time to figure it out before I am too old. Tracksaws are the new way I believe that. Mafell,Festool, Dewalt and others will follow. Who knows before I buy on Bosch might be here.
The Bosch is basically the exact same saw bar three minor features.
1) There is no specific scoring function.
2) There isn't the fine adjustment for between 1mm increments.
3) The blade cover isn't hinged, so there's a minor theoretical increase in dust collection.
1) There is no specific scoring function.
2) There isn't the fine adjustment for between 1mm increments.
3) The blade cover isn't hinged, so there's a minor theoretical increase in dust collection.
dusteater said:
Yes the Domino 500 and (XL)700 have sets. As with anything Festool, buy the set if you can. You save money doing it that way. Not sure if it applies where you are at, but often (if not always for tools that require dust extraction). You get a price break if you buy both the tool and the vac, or the tool and the MFT. Ask your dealer about that option.
I also question the factory coverage on the Mafell was just a year. I talked to Timberwolf and they told me they had only one saw come back. He says Mafells are so good if there is a problem it happens in that first year. He said one person dropped his saw and broke a piece on it. The contracter sent the saw back to them and they fixed it. The part took a couple weeks. Known that you get service is a good thing in my book.
Ha! That was what started me down this path. Like others have said the Festool system is great! So many possibilities.dusteater said:
Mafell seems like an excellent product. I've just never used one.
BTW I think there is a youtube video that shows the best dressed woodworker I've ever seen. It is a Mafell youtube. The guy has on a ruffled (tuxedo) shirt, vest and dress pants. Kind of convenient if you are going out after work... [laughing]
A few other notes on Mafell products:
- More expensive than Festool.
- Non-removable cords, but they are way more flexible and easier to move around. You have no problem coiling it up to put in the Systainer and it does not retain any memory. The Festool cords are too stiff and have a mind of their own. Festool should buy their cord material from whoever Mafell buys theirs from.
- The Systainers are the original versions.
- I have not had any problems (nor have others I know). The 1-year US warranty is poor given the rest of the world enjoys a 3-year warranty. They are not near as big an operation as Festool so maybe quality is the top concern.
- They jack up their prices every year though they did skip this year. The Euro has dropped from $1.60 to around $1.10 in the last two years yet the price increases keep coming just like Festool. Timberwolf did hold off on a price increase this year though.
- The price differential between Europe and the US is large enough that it is significantly cheaper to place an order with a European vendor to ship to the US. The vendor I have used charges $40 for 2-3 UPS shipping for a decent sized box of smaller items. I ordered a rail kit with bag and a longer rail that is not sold in the US and it was only $60 to ship it. The savings on both orders were large enough that the shipping was not even a factor.
- If you are willing to roll with 240v tools then you can order those from a European vendor for a substantial savings.
Holmz
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-FSN-O...h-GOF-GMF-amp-TE600-for-GKF-600-/161766311855dusteater said:
says here:https://pt-pro.resource.bosch.com/media/fsn-ofa-33971-original-pdf-237767.pdf
that these work:
-Bosch GKF 600 ... GOF 2000
-Festool 0F 1010
-Mafell L0 50 E
-DeWalt DW 26203
-DeWalt DW 621
-Makita RP 1110
-Makita RP 0900
I am using an LO50, which handles like a OF 1400 and the price was very good at the time.
The DW621 seems a popular choice. If dust is the major concern than the 1010 may be best (??), but on a US driveway I would probably lean towards the DW621 (?? - dunno for sure).
I'll consider selling you mine, as I do not use the router and OFA guide for dados, so the 32-mm aspect is about all I use it for.
Therefore I think I am going to order one of these:
And then make a plexiglass piece to hold the router and index into the castleations on the rail.
That should be a lot quicker and I would need one with a DD40 anyhow., but do not do enough 32-mm holes to justify a DD40 at this time.
If you ever need to work elsewhere then the Bosch rails are nice as they are 1600mm (~5 feet), and hook together nicely.
In a fixed location a long FT rail would be good.
With smaller rails that can be moved, then by time one adds a Betterly connector one needs to cost it out, as well as the futzing around time. The Bosch connector is pretty idiot proof. [embarassed]
I knew I would always work at home... And then task #2 was an internal wall for the Mrs work, and everything when into the back of the ute and pulled out on-site.
I can envision someone saying, "Can you do this for me..." and then you need to move rails.
I keep my rails in a rail-bag with the Bosch OFN (?) mitre attachment and the connector, which looks a bit like a soft rifle bag, or small snowboard bag.
The only draw back for a FT rail on an MFT (and using the MT55) is that the FT rail is 6-mm thick and the Bosch is 5mm, so the pivot for a cut off of 90 degrees then does not align with the splinter strip. I sold the MFT's rail.
I do not regularly use the p1cc on the rail, and it only works on a Bosch/Mafell rail... But I had to use it a couple of times. Maybe a tablesaw would have been bettter... [embarassed]
You know when I look at Euro prices For the MT55 It is harder to justify the cost here. I go back and forth on what I can do that is when in reason. If I could write it off on taxes I would but not an option. I looked at the Dewalt system and thought at the time I would buy an dewalt tracksaw with router adapter and a 621 router for what I would spend on TS55 with clamps and another blade. I love the idea of a tracksaw, but part of me says get dewalt tablesaw like the 7491R get a good blade and go from there. The TS55 is looking better over the dewalt if I can see it that way.
