TS60 110volt in the US. Plug-it installed

[Crazyraceguy]

The TS55 and TS75 take the exact same Plug-it part number, so I don't see an issue there.

[member=680]Jason White[/member] I think that statement is just a "cover" at this point. They want to get them to market, so if the UL/CE underwriting is a hold up, they go the easy route. Later they can issue an "updated" version with the Plug-it, if it becomes a customer driven need.

As [member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member] said, this is totally on me.
I took the risk, based on past performance. I have owned (and used in a commercial setting) many Festool power tools for nearly 10 years, even replacing a bunch of them after a shop fire. It totals somewhere around 25? and in all of that time, I have never had a warranty issue/claim. Of course, "you never know", but I have been wanting this thing since it was first mentioned. Since there was no mention of a US release, Kevin took pity on my dilemma and we worked out a deal to get me one.
While that was happening, the release announcement came.
I have used it every day since it got here, though I still don't have a solid surface blade for it. Our Leitz rep was in some training class last week, so he didn't make it to us. I have been asking him about that for a few weeks now, with nothing. Now that they are going to be in the US market, I hope that changes soon.

 

[Coen]

Lots of wiring got downgraded in recent standards to account for longer sustained maximum load in a higher-temperature environment.

I also heard what Sedge said, but it doesn't really make that much sense, besides that the extra connection introduces a slight voltage loss. However, on half the voltage and double the current, with the same connection you loose twice the voltage and generate four times the power loss. The relative voltage loss is also four times bigger.

 

[jeh]

Either way, running a UK 110V tool in the US is an "on your own hazard" situation. Will all the legal/non-legal issues.

The same as opening *any* tool and reconfiguring the electrical wiring is .. not advised. Period.

There are not any legality issues to modifying a tool you own and there are no issues running a UK 110V tool in the US as they use the exact same motor and parts with the exception of the cord/plug.

 

[mino]

There are not any legality issues to modifying a tool you own and there are no issues running a UK 110V tool in the US as they use the exact same motor and parts with the exception of the cord/plug.

Try doing that with an employee-used tool. Should, God forbid, anything happen, the lawyers, their lawyers, will sure cheer you on. *)

*) Yes, there are ways if you are a licensed electrician. One can even manufacture own tools.  Write own manuals for them etc., etc. Do not think many over here are. Nor are familiar with what is needed to put a custom-made tool into employee use and be insurable still.

Reminder:
This is a public forum. Will all kinds of audience. Not only professionals and not only self-employed folks with adequate experience.

The TS55 and TS75 take the exact same Plug-it part number, so I don't see an issue there.

Me neither. What I meant that someting which is absolutely fine for you /or me/, given the connectors have safety margins, may not be fine for Festool to sell to the masses.

It can be as simple as the saw needing, say, 50 amps peak load and connector being rated for 48 amps peak at 40C. Sudenly what is a non-issue in practice in the shop may be a no-go for mass sales to consumers who may use it outside in California ...

 

[usernumber1]

Is there a published spec for the connector anywhere?

I wonder what gauge is the cord on the 120V TS60 - we are 120V here not sure where 110 is coming from
If the previous plug-it cords are max 16gauge that's 13A. The plug-it connector would have to match that it would also be max 13A but could be more

Maybe they needed full 14gauge to match the 15A circuits that regular house wiring provides  / and there's no plug-it equivalent? yet
So if they put a 14gauge cord on the saw that's a big clue

 

[mino]

Is there a published spec for the connector anywhere?

I wonder what gauge is the cord on the 120V TS60 - we are 120V here not sure where 110 is coming from
If the previous plug-it cords are max 16gauge that's 13A. The plug-it connector would have to match that it would also be max 13A but could be more

Maybe they needed full 14gauge to match the 15A circuits that regular house wiring provides  / and there's no plug-it equivalent? yet
So if they put a 14gauge cord on the saw that's a big clue

Does not have to be, as I mentioned above, connectors, unlike cables, are rated not only for continuous (those 13 A) but also peak loads due to the risk of arcing.

A 16 gauge cable is "rated"*) for >100 amp peaks for short periods while "rated" only for 13 A continuous. Yet a 15 A rated connector may be limited only to 45 A peaks, for example. We do not know the Plug-It rating details, so have to go with Festool statements that it was a problem for the TS60 at 110/120V.
The Sedge comment aligns with this. If this was a peak current problem, you can limit this using just the firmware of the full-wave electronics but this will make the saw bog down sooner when it hits a snag. That it can run full power at 13 amps continous would be of little use if it would bog down on each knot ..

*) well, not really, cables are not rated for peak loads ... since those do not matter and are anyway limited by the connectors use to connect those cables. But a motor-use circuit breaker (in Europe C-class) may allow up-to 10x overcurrent peaks, which for a 13A rated cable gives 130 amps *allowed* peaks. The connector, on the other hand, may not support those as the contact surface is limited inside it.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Is there a published spec for the connector anywhere?

I wonder what gauge is the cord on the 120V TS60 - we are 120V here not sure where 110 is coming from
If the previous plug-it cords are max 16gauge that's 13A. The plug-it connector would have to match that it would also be max 13A but could be more

Maybe they needed full 14gauge to match the 15A circuits that regular house wiring provides  / and there's no plug-it equivalent? yet
So if they put a 14gauge cord on the saw that's a big clue

120v is theoretical, often a bit less, as low as 108 is pretty common.

The Plug-it connector came in today, as a bit of a surprise. I never did get a shipping notification?
I wish I could say it was a 1 minute operation, like it should have been, but it did take a bit more to get it installed. For some crazy reason, the spade connectors of the Plug-it fitting were smaller than the ones on the cord/machine. It only took a few minutes to put some new ones on and reassemble it.
It works just fine, but is not a 100% bolt-on.
I also found out today that when you bevel the saw to 45 degrees it still falls over, so that's a plus  [big grin]

Amazing work - I had decided to cancel my TS 60 preorder - you made me keep it.
Can you please tell me which spade connectors you used?
I am guessing you used the 16-gauge heavy Plug it cable.

Thanks a lot!!!

I'm not fluid enough in electrical fittings to tell you the exact name, but they are the ones I would consider "normal" (1/4" wide or so?) That is the size of the connections on the saw itself (and of course the hardwired cord that comes with it)
The replacement Plug-it fitting comes with connectors on it, but they are narrower, thus do not fit directly. It seemed a little odd to me, but I have never had either of my other saws opened up to see the internal connections.
It was as simple as crimping on the wider connectors and reassemble at that point.

 

[deepspeak]

The Plug-it connector came in today, as a bit of a surprise. I never did get a shipping notification?
I wish I could say it was a 1 minute operation, like it should have been, but it did take a bit more to get it installed. For some crazy reason, the spade connectors of the Plug-it fitting were smaller than the ones on the cord/machine. It only took a few minutes to put some new ones on and reassemble it.
It works just fine, but is not a 100% bolt-on.
I also found out today that when you bevel the saw to 45 degrees it still falls over, so that's a plus  [big grin]

Amazing work - I had decided to cancel my TS 60 preorder - you made me keep it.
Can you please tell me which spade connectors you used?
I am guessing you used the 16-gauge heavy Plug it cable.

Thanks a lot!!!

I'm not fluid enough in electrical fittings to tell you the exact name, but they are the ones I woouold consider "normal" (1/4" wide or so?) That is the size of the connections on the saw itself (and of course the hardwired cord that comes with it)
The replacement Plug-it fitting comes with connectors on it, but they are narrower, thus do not fit directly. It seemed a little odd to me, but I have never had either of my other saws opened up to see the internal connections.
It was as simple as crimping on the wider connectors and reassemble at that point.
[/quote]

Thank you so much!

 

[kelchm]

I wanted to share some further details for those interested in adding the Plug-It connector to their TS60.

I found the shorter lead with the right angle connector on TS55/TS75 socket (Festool Part #491725) to be too short to comfortably reach on the TS60, even with a right angle quick connect terminal. I ended up extending the length of the shorter wire using the excess length from the longer wire.

The stock fixed power cord on the TS60 also has a ferrite ring. I did not transfer this over, as it would have required modifying the stock power cord, but I will likely add one at some point in the future.

Parts Used

• Festool TS55/TS75 Socket (Part #491725)
• Straight Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 5-160558-1)
• Flag Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 4-280050-1)
• 16AWG Copper Crimp Connector (for splicing shorter wire)
• 3/16" Waterproof Heatshrink (for splicing shorter wire)

Tools Used

• Crimper Pliers (Signstek HSC8)
• Terminal Crimping Tool (Engineer PAD-13)

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That's a bit odd? Mine (from UK) did not have that ferrite ring

 

[mino]

That's a bit odd? Mine (from UK) did not have that ferrite ring

The UK one is designed for site use - the 110V lines in UK are bulding site ones, not connected to general power grid. Kinda like industrial.

I can easily imagine a high-frequency filter - what a ferrite is - being pointless there.

That and the US EM requirements are sricter than in Europe - from what I gather from the IT equipment experience. Either way I would not over-think this. At worst the saw may create interference with your home FM radio ..

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Thanks [member=61254]mino[/member]
I wasn't worried about it, the thing has been going strong 5 days a week for 6 months now.
I was just curious as to the difference.
Funny that there really hasn't been any update or announcement about it.
I guess I'm the only one who cares about it? Maybe after a few of them get old enough to be out of warrantee, a few might get modified.

 

[Coen]

[...]

*) well, not really, cables are not rated for peak loads ... since those do not matter and are anyway limited by the connectors use to connect those cables. But a motor-use circuit breaker (in Europe C-class) may allow up-to 10x overcurrent peaks, which for a 13A rated cable gives 130 amps *allowed* peaks. The connector, on the other hand, may not support those as the contact surface is limited inside it.

10x is at the max of the tolerance. 5x is also within spec. In general only shitty tools need C-class to begin with. B-class being 3-5x nominal current.
13A MCB's are very rare where I live. It's 99% 16A.

 

[mino]

[...]

*) well, not really, cables are not rated for peak loads ... since those do not matter and are anyway limited by the connectors use to connect those cables. But a motor-use circuit breaker (in Europe C-class) may allow up-to 10x overcurrent peaks, which for a 13A rated cable gives 130 amps *allowed* peaks. The connector, on the other hand, may not support those as the contact surface is limited inside it.

10x is at the max of the tolerance. 5x is also within spec. In general only bad tools need C-class to begin with. B-class being 3-5x nominal current.
13A MCB's are very rare where I live. It's 99% 16A.

Sure, my point was that connectors are not rated (only) for continuous/average load like wiring is (for all practical intents and purposes). But also for peak current to prevent arcing etc.

For normal quality brushed tools with a soft-start, arcing is a non-concern as during normal operation the motor simply cannot generate the currents where it would be a concern - it starts arcing way sooner on the brushes, before it becomes a problem for the power cable connector. On the other hand a full electronic power brushless tool *can* easily generate currents that would be beyond the specs of small connector like the PlugIt. That is where the tools gets their torque after all .. Futher, such a tool generates the current peaks all of the time - not just on startup.

I just do not see how this has an "all happy" solution.

The connector is limited in what it can handle - I see no reason to no believe Festool here - and the TS60 is just the first "victim". That and it is not a concern in Europe, so I do not see Festool developing a dedicated connector system (just for) the US market. PlugIt has it hard as it is, being a proprietary thing and all that .. even ignoring the safety-crazy regulations these days.

 

[dylo]

Thanks for posting this.  I've done a couple conversions of other brand corded tools already by 3D printing the casing someone posted and using the Festool plug it replacement part.  I had to cut and solder the new connection in though which is not reversible.  Is the method you did reversible?  Ie can I remove the plug it cord and put back the old one if I need to get it serviced?

I wanted to share some further details for those interested in adding the Plug-It connector to their TS60.

I found the shorter lead with the right angle connector on TS55/TS75 socket (Festool Part #491725) to be too short to comfortably reach on the TS60, even with a right angle quick connect terminal. I ended up extending the length of the shorter wire using the excess length from the longer wire.

The stock fixed power cord on the TS60 also has a ferrite ring. I did not transfer this over, as it would have required modifying the stock power cord, but I will likely add one at some point in the future.

Parts Used

• Festool TS55/TS75 Socket (Part #491725)
• Straight Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 5-160558-1)
• Flag Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 4-280050-1)
• 16AWG Copper Crimp Connector (for splicing shorter wire)
• 3/16" Waterproof Heatshrink (for splicing shorter wire)

Tools Used

• Crimper Pliers (Signstek HSC8)
• Terminal Crimping Tool (Engineer PAD-13)

 

[kelchm]

Is the method you did reversible?  Ie can I remove the plug it cord and put back the old one if I need to get it serviced?

Yes, it is 100% reversible. The only part that is actually modified is the TS55/TS75 plug-it connector.

Cutting the connectors off the original power cable and splicing them into the plug-it leads would definitely be the easier method, but like you I wanted to go about this in a way that could be easily reversed if I wanted to at some point in the future.

PS — crimping the right angle ‘flag’ quick connect is a pain — on the Engineer crimpers I used, I was able to flip the dies backwards from their normal orientation in order to make the crimp.

 

[rmwarren]

Thanks for posting this.  I've done a couple conversions of other brand corded tools already by 3D printing the casing someone posted and using the Festool plug it replacement part.  I had to cut and solder the new connection in though which is not reversible.  Is the method you did reversible?  Ie can I remove the plug it cord and put back the old one if I need to get it serviced?

[member=81014]dylo[/member] where did you find the design for the PlugIt adapter? I was looking around on some of the stl sharing sites and couldn't find one.

Thanks.

RMW

 

[dylo]

Herehttps://www.printables.com/model/335607-festool-plug-it-adapter-conversion

Thanks for posting this.  I've done a couple conversions of other brand corded tools already by 3D printing the casing someone posted and using the Festool plug it replacement part.  I had to cut and solder the new connection in though which is not reversible.  Is the method you did reversible?  Ie can I remove the plug it cord and put back the old one if I need to get it serviced?

[member=81014]dylo[/member] where did you find the design for the PlugIt adapter? I was looking around on some of the stl sharing sites and couldn't find one.

Thanks.

RMW

 

[dylo]

[member=80990]kelchm[/member] whwre did you buy the ts55/75 socket from.  There are a couple sockets via Lee Valley here in Canada but they don't have that one.

Also dumb question but if is there a ts60 UK socket replacement I could order that could be an exact drop in?

Is the method you did reversible?  Ie can I remove the plug it cord and put back the old one if I need to get it serviced?

Yes, it is 100% reversible. The only part that is actually modified is the TS55/TS75 plug-it connector.

Cutting the connectors off the original power cable and splicing them into the plug-it leads would definitely be the easier method, but like you I wanted to go about this in a way that could be easily reversed if I wanted to at some point in the future.

PS — crimping the right angle ‘flag’ quick connect is a pain — on the Engineer crimpers I used, I was able to flip the dies backwards from their normal orientation in order to make the crimp.

 

[alltracman78]

I wanted to share some further details for those interested in adding the Plug-It connector to their TS60.

I found the shorter lead with the right angle connector on TS55/TS75 socket (Festool Part #491725) to be too short to comfortably reach on the TS60, even with a right angle quick connect terminal. I ended up extending the length of the shorter wire using the excess length from the longer wire.

The stock fixed power cord on the TS60 also has a ferrite ring. I did not transfer this over, as it would have required modifying the stock power cord, but I will likely add one at some point in the future.

Parts Used

• Festool TS55/TS75 Socket (Part #491725)
• Straight Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 5-160558-1)
• Flag Quick Connect (TE Connectivity 4-280050-1)
• 16AWG Copper Crimp Connector (for splicing shorter wire)
• 3/16" Waterproof Heatshrink (for splicing shorter wire)

Tools Used

• Crimper Pliers (Signstek HSC8)
• Terminal Crimping Tool (Engineer PAD-13)

Good info and nice writeup.
My only question is; are the replacement plugit wires the same gauge? They look thinner (second picture). I know insulation can be deceptive.