TSC 55 KEB vs Milwaukee M18 Tracksaw

[dougcjohn]

Recent new Owner of TSC 55 KEB Track saw... what a beautiful machine: design, cut, performance, batteries, and BT to Dust Vac.
Shortly after purchase of KEB, multiple Milwaukee M18 Track saw YouTubes & Review were popping up. So I searched for a comparison between the 2 track saws. A few mentioned Festool 55 series, but none with the KEB.  A common point was Milwaukee's Track saw was more powerful, better design from any other... including Festool. Directly asking One YouTube Reviewer, he replied Milwaukee is more powerful than KEB. I asked for the link or reference that provided the info... haven't yet got a response. e

Has anyone experimented with both the KEB and Milwaukee track saws? Draw any conclusion?
I did purchase a Milwaukee (30 day satisfaction / return) Track saw to compare the 2 models, in a quick test last night, with 3/4" Plywood.... pushing them or going at nice pace for quality, both felt or appeared to be essentially equal. I'll pick up some 1 1/2 hardwood and test later this weekend.

The part that made me curious, was the YouTube reviewers were established reviewers that took several steps to evaluate both saws in a non-biased manor and all indicated Milwaukee was a better track saw and if not in the Festool products or batteries the Milwaukee would be a better choice. These weren't Milwaukee only users, so I questioned fact/fiction.

Any one have 1st hand experience with both track saws, please share.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Never even seen an M18 tracksaw in person but a comparison of “cutting power” would have to include exactly equivalent blades and batteries. Might not be easy to achieve.

A comparison of handling while subjective would still be valid even if the battery and blade specs didn’t match. Looking forward to reading what you come up with.

 

[dougcjohn]

I'd agree, an exact test would require same blade and battery specs.
My evaluation is more informal, but how I personally use the saw and material I cut... and using out of box setup.
The blades are similar but not exact... size 6.25 and 6.5. The 55 KEB with a 42 tooth, Milwaukee with a 40 tooth. Both 1.8mm thickness.

Going into this comparison, my assumption was the Festool would outperform the Milwaukee.
I'm not a Milwaukee heavy user, I have Milwaukee Nailers but the majority of my tools and saws are DeWault.

I purchased several 1x12x48 Red Oak pieces to experiment.
I performed several cuts... and pushed the saws faster than I'd normally cut.

On normal cuts, slow and steady; both saws performed beautifully!
Increasing the demand stressed the saws so I could evaluate overall power.
The 55KEB, I was able to stall consistently with moderate speed, the Milwaukee didn't stall... even at faster speeds no indication of stall approaching, motor was stressed but not bogged down like the Festool indicated at much slower speeds.

Battery life & cuts were a bit longer with Festool, but not substantial to make it a consideration factor.
Regarding the Batteries; Cut til battery cutoff on both saws. The Festool had the Airstream battery.
The Festool would not recharge, needed to cool 15-20 minutes first. The Milwaukee battery wasn't hot enough to require a cool down, it began charging immediately.

When stacking 2 1" Oak, at set to max depth. The Festool cut nicely at slow speed and the Milwaukee cut nicely at slow and much higher speeds, providing nice cuts at all speeds.

Listening to the 2 saws, the Festool's motor changed easily when pushed, the Milwaukee was more stable even when pushed.

Overall, my informal tests indicated to me the Milwaukee Track saw out performed the Festool 55 KEB on common hardwood cuts.

The 55 KEB bluetooth is a wonderful feature, although the BT Module & Hose Button still provide a convenient method to turn on Dust Vac. On the Milwaukee, the 2" deeper cut, 2mm scoring feature, common battery platform & single battery, anti-tip feature on rail, and the overall higher power of motor provide a better all around package for my needs.

To my surprise... the new Milwaukee performed better than expected.
I'll be making a change, both saws are within their 30 day Satisfaction period.

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

I have the corded TS 55 FEQ and am very happy with it, but I'm very tempted by the milwaukee as a second tracksaw. I already have festool tracks and a few of the M18 HO 6.0 batteries the tracksaw ships with, so I'd only need to get the bare tool to try.

I could easily see the m18 saw sneaking its way into my shop if it goes on sale during one of the buy more save more events...

 

[woodferret]

Sounds like everyone backs off when the TS55s constant speed electronics kicks in and the sound changes.  Milwaukee has this tech too, but as far as I know is only in their portable bandsaws as CPT.

Neither is stalling.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Which batteries did the saws have?

On my M18 and M12 tools the bigger ah batteries provide a big boost to the power and rpm of the tools, not simply longer run time.

On the other hand, it seems like Festool is more interested in protecting the tool from the surge of power (watts?) pushing a tool with a big battery would provide. On the other other hand, many people say the battery powered TS saws are more capable than the corded.

With the corded Festool saws you have to push the tool to get the circuitry to let the power through. Best results are obtained if you push just hard enough that the growling stops.

My old ATF 55 has a flaky power control circuit. Sometimes it lets full power through as soon as triggered with a significant increase in speed (and sound). That allows me to get the best cuts I ever get with any of my saws because the blade is spinning the fastest and the speed control is not constantly trying to slow the rpm down. Festool disputes that the vibration that results from the speed control/gear lash pair degrades the cut but I can see the evidence in the wood.

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

Which batteries did the saws have?

The M18 saw comes with a high output 6.0; I already have several of those, but if I were to buy the M18 saw, I'd probably grab a high output 8.0; same size and weight as the 6.0.

 

[dougcjohn]

Sounds like everyone backs off when the TS55s constant speed electronics kicks in and the sound changes.  Milwaukee has this tech too, but as far as I know is only in their portable bandsaws as CPT.

Neither is stalling.

You're confusing Stalling with Loading or Bogging down.
Stalling: as in Motor Not Spinning, as in self protection of circuit shutting OFF motor.

I too thought the 55KEB would power through, assumed it would nicely overpower the Milwaukee... I was disappointed & wrong.
I thought the Festool electronics would show it's supremacy, wasn't close.

The 55KEB stalled... multiple times... as in Powered "OFF". Needed to be raised and re-plunged to start motor again.
The "Sound" you're talking about was in the initial early part of cut when I began pushing a bit harder... and I kept pushing a bit more, then Stall - OFF.  This wasn't once, it was multiple times, and the Milwaukee was pushed much harder & faster without stalling.

The Milwaukee at a much harder push on cut, did have a short "loading" and you could hear motor change and it then kept going.
The Festool 55 KEB simply stalled OFF, under a bit harder load than a normal slow cut.

 

[dougcjohn]

I have the corded TS 55 FEQ and am very happy with it, but I'm very tempted by the milwaukee as a second tracksaw. I already have festool tracks and a few of the M18 HO 6.0 batteries the tracksaw ships with, so I'd only need to get the bare tool to try.

I could easily see the m18 saw sneaking its way into my shop if it goes on sale during one of the buy more save more events...

If you get a chance, simply try a Milwaukee. Review all the various YouTubes Reviews... a few good ones.
If you read my post on one Reviewer, I was questioning the Power of the Milwaukee over the 55 KEB, convincing myself it simply can't overpower the Festool. The one by Concord Carpenter is informative.

I'm in a similar situation, I'm DeWaukee... batteries in both DeWalt & Milwaukee. I really like the DeWalt 60v saw & 120v Batter/Cord 790 Miter Saw. A common single HD battery is nice.
Good luck on decision.

 

[dougcjohn]

Which batteries did the saws have?

On my M18 and M12 tools the bigger ah batteries provide a big boost to the power and rpm of the tools, not simply longer run time.

On the other hand, it seems like Festool is more interested in protecting the tool from the surge of power (watts?) pushing a tool with a big battery would provide. On the other other hand, many people say the battery powered TS saws are more capable than the corded.

With the corded Festool saws you have to push the tool to get the circuitry to let the power through. Best results are obtained if you push just hard enough that the growling stops.

My old ATF 55 has a flaky power control circuit. Sometimes it lets full power through as soon as triggered with a significant increase in speed (and sound). That allows me to get the best cuts I ever get with any of my saws because the blade is spinning the fastest and the speed control is not constantly trying to slow the rpm down. Festool disputes that the vibration that results from the speed control/gear lash pair degrades the cut but I can see the evidence in the wood.

I was using both saws as "Out of Box" and the Milwaukee only had a 6ah XC battery.
I've also heard corded Festools aren't as powerful as cordless.
There are several Carpenter's with Youtube Channels, all were praising the Cordless 55 KEB last year. They've sense tested the Milwaukee and not one has indicated Festool is equal or more powerful.
I have 12ah HD batteries that I'll try this weekend... more to evaluate duration, assuming power is already ample.

 

[Bencan]

I don’t think any motor festool makes can hold a candle to the Milwaukee fuel line. Some of the tools festool makes are shamefully underpowered. Powerful motors are not really why you buy festool

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[usernumber1]

since you're reviewing how about dust collection and edge chip on melamine and veneers? Weight difference, handling, center of balance, vacuum integration, speed of adjustability, storage solution?

I don't care about power since nothing I've ever cut has troubled my 55 rebq

 

[dougcjohn]

I don’t think any motor festool makes can hold a candle to the Milwaukee fuel line. Some of the tools festool makes are shamefully underpowered. Powerful motors are not really why you buy festool

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would agree with you, Festool is more of a overall package of quality. I assumed that included Power, but I've read multiple reviews where corded and un-corded aren't that high in power.  Accuracy of cut, settings & angles isn't higher than multiple Brands.

I do really like the BT between Dust Vac (48 AC) and Festool BT Batteries. I also feel the overall design is much better looks and functionality. The Blade Lock when lowered is one example, nice feature.

Although, I also feel Festool is riding their position with mindset they are top rank. Many a product or company has stumbled taking the attitude while competitors aggressively continue to build new improved units.

It's also far to say, Milwaukee sat back for several years and collected data on Track saw competition. They introduced late in the game but with features from several competitors.

So at this stage for my limited funds on purchases, as others... look for optimal return on investment.
Providing more power, Railed 2" deep cut (6 1/2" blade), Scoring cut feature, Anti-Tip Rail feature, and single battery on a common platform.

The 1 major piece on Festool I enjoyed was the BT Auto On... I installed the BT Module on 48 AC Dust Evac so button on end of hose is still very convenient.

 

[dougcjohn]

since you're reviewing how about dust collection and edge chip on melamine and veneers? Weight difference, handling, center of balance, vacuum integration, speed of adjustability, storage solution?

I don't care about power since nothing I've ever cut has troubled my 55 rebq

All valid points... this post was mainly testing power and noticing the power difference.
I haven't yet done extensive tests or cuts on various material yet... they both use the 1.8mm blades and both have adjustable speed controll dials with same number of digits.

Regarding Clean Cuts, the Milwaukee does have a "scoring" feature with a 2mm controlled depth cut. I've played with that feature and it appears to work very nicely... barely 2mm depth. Flick button off and full depth is available.

Regarding weight, per specs the Milwaukee is about 1.1 lb heavier. That's bare, not sure on Festool 2 Batteries vs Milwaukee 1 battery. I will state using them during 1 evening... taking batteries to exhaustion (dozens of cuts each) they felt about the same picking up and replacing them on rail. I'm 6'8" height, large hands and find the hold, plunge release & trigger more ergonomic, indirectly giving a little lighter feel in handling: for my hands better balance and handling with Milwaukee. Angle cuts, I've only lightly played with the Anti-Tip feature... it does provide a better confidence for stability, feeling and control. Dust management, Milwaukee claims in specs it's Over 90% Dust collection with their attached Dust Bag. I haven't tried the bag yet, I use a BT controlled Festool CT 48 AC Dust Evac attached to Saw.

I'd agree, Festool is a great tool.
I also feel the newly released 60 will soon make it to battery version. That will provide the 6 1/2" depth, and has a scoring wheel in front of the main blade. Add a more powerful motor and they'll be in the competition again with Milwaukee's model.

 

[usernumber1]

Wait so they don't have anything on the Milwaukee side to integrate with for dust extraction? If you're going to use a festool vac I think you'd be using a festool saw (for years now) as well as take advantage of BT batteries.

I'm really curious how it cuts melamine or veneered ply in a single pass. I can do two passes with any saw.

Also no anti-kickback at all?

 

[luvmytoolz]

I don't get the whole "lack of power" thing mentioned, I've been using Festo/Festool tools extensively for over 40 years and don't recall a single occasion when I had any form of under powered tools.

I have also had a great number of very grunty and powerful tools over the years that certainly were powerful, but also very noisy, cumbersome, as un-ergonomic as is possible, and gave a crappy finish is some cases.

The TR-12 is a great router, but it doesn't hold a candle in anyway to the OF2200, or even the OF1400 IMHO, except maybe for raw power.

 

[dougcjohn]

Wait so they don't have anything on the Milwaukee side to integrate with for dust extraction? If you're going to use a festool vac I think you'd be using a festool saw (for years now) as well as take advantage of BT batteries.

I'm really curious how it cuts melamine or veneered ply in a single pass. I can do two passes with any saw.

Also no anti-kickback at all?

One platform is what you're suggesting? Then it's certainly not Festool, they lack multiple tools compared to other Brands. I'm certainly not a 1 Brand, 1 Battery Platform User... I'm probably on 4 platforms & 1 Primary in Tools, then anther platform for Yard Equipment.

Dust Extraction... the 48 AC and the Mikita AC are equal in performance, the Festool provides a BT Module for Hose end and has a cleaner look when packed up. The BT batteries are a wonderful feature, although isn't a determining feature when a BT button sits next to saw, sander, planer, router, etc.

Kick back - like most saws, it does has a riving knife. Personally, if material are managed correctly kickback shouldn't occur and (knock on wood) I haven't had a kickback on table saw, circular or track.

Surface cut on fragile material is more blade, prep and technique, not saw. If double pass wasn't the suggested norm, Festool wouldn't be pushing it on their new 60 as a totally seperate mini blade in Ft of main blade. They both have anti-splinter shields that drop down to material.

 

[dougcjohn]

I don't get the whole "lack of power" thing mentioned, I've been using Festo/Festool tools extensively for over 40 years and don't recall a single occasion when I had any form of under powered tools.

I have also had a great number of very grunty and powerful tools over the years that certainly were powerful, but also very noisy, cumbersome, as un-ergonomic as is possible, and gave a crappy finish is some cases.

The TR-12 is a great router, but it doesn't hold a candle in anyway to the OF2200, or even the OF1400 IMHO, except maybe for raw power.

Interesting that we're deviating to other tools, that we may have similar or different opinions. This post was on 2 saw's performance & power... which is not a new subject for Festool, they've been quipped multiple times for low performance / power on saws.
Festool has held a premium position for years, if they're getting a strong challenge or beaten then that's good for everyone... it stimulates design & competition in a productive way. 

As mentioned above, it's ergonomics I personally find more fitting to my hand & physical size. We haven't mentioned noise yet... they make different motor / saw tones. The Festool is higher pitched, the Milwaukee is lower pitched... I find higher pitch louder to my ears.

Multiple Finish Carpenters (several have YouTube Channels) that were dedicated to Festool Track saws and have multiple Festool products, have openly expressed the Milwaukee provides them better track saw performance. They state the Festool 55 is a great track saw... but the Milwaukee jumped ahead and they'll be using the Milwaukee going forward.

Those reviews & expressions stimulated me to look into the Milwaukee, and if openly examined... it surprises ya.

 

[simnick]

Can the Milwaukee use Festool track?

 

[usernumber1]

Wait so they don't have anything on the Milwaukee side to integrate with for dust extraction? If you're going to use a festool vac I think you'd be using a festool saw (for years now) as well as take advantage of BT batteries.

I'm really curious how it cuts melamine or veneered ply in a single pass. I can do two passes with any saw.

Also no anti-kickback at all?

One platform is what you're suggesting? Then it's certainly not Festool, they lack multiple tools compared to other Brands. I'm certainly not a 1 Brand, 1 Battery Platform User... I'm probably on 4 platforms & 1 Primary in Tools, then anther platform for Yard Equipment.

Dust Extraction... the 48 AC and the Mikita AC are equal in performance, the Festool provides a BT Module for Hose end and has a cleaner look when packed up. The BT batteries are a wonderful feature, although isn't a determining feature when a BT button sits next to saw, sander, planer, router, etc.

Kick back - like most saws, it does has a riving knife. Personally, if material are managed correctly kickback shouldn't occur and (knock on wood) I haven't had a kickback on table saw, circular or track.

Surface cut on fragile material is more blade, prep and technique, not saw. If double pass wasn't the suggested norm, Festool wouldn't be pushing it on their new 60 as a totally seperate mini blade in Ft of main blade. They both have anti-splinter shields that drop down to material.

so if you have a Milwaukee vacuum you need to buy another- Makita or Festool to pair it with a Milwaukee track saw, interesting.

apples to apples out of the box I want to see how the melamine cut compares single pass. if this saw requires two passes to match single festool pass that says a lot.

mind if I ask if you are hired by, sponsored, partnered, affiliated, etc. with Milwaukee in any way?