UJK Parf Guide dog holes too tight

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=53696]Roachmill[/member]

The reason that the 20 mm cutter came from their demo workshop is that the PGS is selling so fast that it has eaten all of the warehouse stock of 20 mm cutters.

I have not seen that reamer before. They do not have any others and their machine shop is so busy that I doubt that they will make any more.

I am glad that you are happy.

Peter

 

[Michael Kellough]

A reamer like that should be added to the catalog of every dog manufacturer.

 

[Cheese]

A reamer like that should be added to the catalog of every dog manufacturer.

You're absolutely correct Michael...that item should be standard fare. It looks like it's machined from aluminum so it'd be pretty inexpensive to duplicate. I wonder if Hans has seen this item yet?

 

[MikeGE]

It, and the replacement bit, arrived very promptly this morning:

There's 2 flutes and a very slight leading taper as shown in the second photo. This is a solid product waiting to happen IMHO. It worked perfectly and I couldn't fault it at all.

Thanks for posting the images!  I was expecting a multi-flute machinist reamer.  If I had access to the machinery, I'm sure I could make a similar reamer or modify an existing dog by milling a groove into it and tapering the end.

 

[Roachmill]

A reamer like that should be added to the catalog of every dog manufacturer.

You're absolutely correct Michael...that item should be standard fare. It looks like it's machined from aluminum so it'd be pretty inexpensive to duplicate. I wonder if Hans has seen this item yet?

It's stainless from the feel and weight of it; same heft and feel as the Parf dogs.

 

[Roachmill]

Thanks for posting the images!  I was expecting a multi-flute machinist reamer.  If I had access to the machinery, I'm sure I could make a similar reamer or modify an existing dog by milling a groove into it and tapering the end.

Reamers are new to me - so I wasn't entirely sure what to expect [big grin] I now need to keep it somewhere so it doesn't get lost... and not somewhere so special I can never find it again  [unsure] [big grin]

 

[cubevandude]

I'd be interested in seeing what the diameter of the reemer is instead of the length. IS it taking it to 20.10mm?

 

[Cheese]

It's stainless from the feel and weight of it; same heft and feel as the Parf dogs.

Thanks for that...It looked like aluminum but stainless makes a lot more sense.  [big grin]

 

[TSO_Products]

A reamer like that should be added to the catalog of every dog manufacturer.

You're absolutely correct Michael...that item should be standard fare. I wonder if Hans has seen this item yet?

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] - ever since we introduced our 18" inch Precision Triangles we have been faced with the varying accuracy of hole patterns and bore diameters.

This led us to introduce two styles of our Double Groove(TM) Dogs. For most operations involving Dogs in a 20mm benchtop hole pattern, an ultra-tight fit is not required and not even helpful - hence our standard Dog which does not need to "pushed" in, nor require extra effort to withdraw.

If the fit of our standard Dogs leaves an undesirable amount of  play, that can be substantially reduced or eliminated by using a TSO SpeedKnob from below to draw the Dog into a perfectly perpendicular realationship with the top.

TSO's CF-Dogs (Close Fitting) work well with precisely machined or Parf Guide System produced tops when using the appropriate material: quality, dense MDF, or in Europe, use Valchromat, a dense woodfiber material with similar characteristics.

Choose the right Dog fit for the top you have rather than trying to micro-machine the hole of a woodfiber material to tolerances not appropriate for the material - and get back to woodworking.

Read all about it:https://tsoproducts.com/bench-dogs/

Hans

 

[Bertotti]

Hi , new here but I just used the mk2 parf guide myself. 2x4 top, sorry not metric here yet, half standard half isometric. New bit and kit my holes were also very tight. I could put the dogs in but some I could not get out. I split a piece of wood with a hole in it and used it to grab them and turn them then pull them out. It seemed to compress the edges ever so slightly. They still fit tightly but I can pull them out by hand with a twist.

 

[Roachmill]

I'd be interested in seeing what the diameter of the reemer is instead of the length. IS it taking it to 20.10mm?

Good point! Keep in mind that NASA do not use my calipers so measurement to the nearest atom is not guaranteed. With that said, here we have what they say a 12mm Parf Pup and the reamer come out at:

I spent 10 minutes reaming out the holes on the top for my centipede (produced using a jig with Festool 20mm bit) which, up until now, were way too tight for Parf dogs. As a result I'll be passing on the myriad of old dogs from a multitude of manufacturers and ordering more Parf dogs. No more futzing around picking and choosing between dogs that are too tight or too loose.

As to just using Valcromat or HDF... for something I cut to bits and replace on a regular basis I'll stick to the cheaper MRMDF, PGS and 10 minutes reaming. I'm done with router jigs, worrying about router bit concentricity (I'm looking at you OF1400!) and will this dog fit snug or be loose. I believe I have, after several years, attained a MFT and dog zen state. Sad, I know!

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] - ever since we introduced our 18" inch Precision Triangles we have been faced with the varying accuracy of hole patterns and bore diameters.

This led us to introduce two styles of our Double Groove(TM) Dogs. For most operations involving Dogs in a 20mm benchtop hole pattern, an ultra-tight fit is not required and not even helpful - hence our standard Dog which does not need to "pushed" in, nor require extra effort to withdraw.

If the fit of our standard Dogs leaves an undesirable amount of  play, that can be substantially reduced or eliminated by using a TSO SpeedKnob from below to draw the Dog into a perfectly perpendicular relationship with the top.

Hans

Thanks for the Dog information Hans [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] 

I never looked at or considered purchasing your dogs because I already have so many on-hand. Woodpeckers aluminum, Woodpeckers delrin, Qwas, Lee Valley yada yada. I even have several aluminum versions that I turned myself on the lathe. [eek]

So like Roachmill and probably many others on this forum I just keep a pile of them on the bench and then go through the drill "this one's too tight, this ones too loose".

Now that I know you provide Dogs in 2 different diameters, I'm going to take a different approach and purchase several of each and then make a decision as to which ones work best.

One of the table tops is 1 1/2" thick maple that I used a 20 mm Zobo bit on.

The other table top is 18 mm BB ply that I used the Festool 20 mm bit on.

We'll see what shakes out.  [smile]

 

[Claimdude]

Cheese,

I have the tight fit TSO dogs and have been very happy with them! My top is a CNC'd top based on the Drawing that Hans provides. I used plane old MDF and have no problems with changes in dimensions. My shop is climate controlled with humidity typically around 45%. You won't regret getting the TSO dogs.

Jack

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] - ever since we introduced our 18" inch Precision Triangles we have been faced with the varying accuracy of hole patterns and bore diameters.

This led us to introduce two styles of our Double Groove(TM) Dogs. For most operations involving Dogs in a 20mm benchtop hole pattern, an ultra-tight fit is not required and not even helpful - hence our standard Dog which does not need to "pushed" in, nor require extra effort to withdraw.

If the fit of our standard Dogs leaves an undesirable amount of  play, that can be substantially reduced or eliminated by using a TSO SpeedKnob from below to draw the Dog into a perfectly perpendicular relationship with the top.

Hans

Thanks for the Dog information Hans [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] 

I never looked at or considered purchasing your dogs because I already have so many on-hand. Woodpeckers aluminum, Woodpeckers delrin, Qwas, Lee Valley yada yada. I even have several aluminum versions that I turned myself on the lathe. [eek]

So like Roachmill and probably many others on this forum I just keep a pile of them on the bench and then go through the drill "this one's too tight, this ones too loose".

Now that I know you provide Dogs in 2 different diameters, I'm going to take a different approach and purchase several of each and then make a decision as to which ones work best.

One of the table tops is 1 1/2" thick maple that I used a 20 mm Zobo bit on.

The other table top is 18 mm BB ply that I used the Festool 20 mm bit on.

We'll see what shakes out.  [smile]

 

[Cheese]

Cheese,

I have the tight fit TSO dogs and have been very happy with them! My top is a CNC'd top based on the Drawing that Hans provides. I used plane old MDF and have no problems with changes in dimensions. My shop is climate controlled with humidity typically around 45%. You won't regret getting the TSO dogs.

Jack

Thanks Jack, I appreciate your feedback.  [smile]

Like you, the benches are in the basement where it’s 50-70 all year long with good humidity control.
I’m going to purchase the tight Dogs and go from there. If they’re too tight I’ll modify them on the lathe and that will quickly point me in the direction I need to go to fine tune this situation.

 

[NSC77]

You can get a reamer for this on Amazon that works perfect for this. I've built my own custom MFT like atomic Ryan and used it to get the holes perfect. https://www.amazon.com/Taper-Straig.../B0788LLRHW/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=20mm+reamer&qid=1603990491&s=hi&sr=1-3

 

[Bernmc]

Axminster sent me a reamer - ran it through the holes and it solved the problem.

They really are excellent at sorting out issues. Mark of a great company.

 

[timbrier]

I stumbled upon this thread yesterday and found the info about the reamer. I got my MFT top from ebay and use benchdogs.co.uk dogs so I wasn't going to be able to get it for free through support. I emailed the technical team though and you can buy it through the Axminster sales phone line. The order code is 107586 and it costs £16.98 plus postage. Was about £20 all in for me and it arrived first thing the next day.

 

[Roachmill]

I stumbled upon this thread yesterday and found the info about the reamer. I got my MFT top from ebay and use benchdogs.co.uk dogs so I wasn't going to be able to get it for free through support. I emailed the technical team though and you can buy it through the Axminster sales phone line. The order code is 107586 and it costs £16.98 plus postage. Was about £20 all in for me and it arrived first thing the next day.

That's great to hear and thanks for sharing the details too [big grin]

 

[Roachmill]

Well look at that... they're now live on their sitehttps://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-parf-system-reamer-for-20mm-holes-107586

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Well look at that... they're now live on their sitehttps://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-parf-system-reamer-for-20mm-holes-107586

Thanks for the link. Don't like paying about $30US for it but I have three MFTish slabs with about 300 holes that I've been so frustrated with the tight fit I gave up using the dogs. Maybe this will convert me [big grin].