Uk vouchers

[toolfest.co.uk]

You are all forgetting why festool dealers started to give 25% plus discounts, where before, as someone said you were offered 10% off accessories once you had paid full up for the tool.
The Competitions Commission fined Festool for what they found to be unfair trading practices, I think this is called robbery in layman's terms.
They have the same practices over here in France, full up with 10% off accessories, but then again France doesn't have and Competitions Commission. The dealers in France also moan about how difficult it is to sell and earn from Festool but I think that is just dealers for you, car dealers, antique dealers even drug dealers say they don't make anything.

It's a tricky subject but I don't have any complaint with Festool themselves. Apart from what I can only put down to growing pains which have led to issues with the level of service, they have presented us with the same offering as they always have, excellent products with a fair deal for end users, 15 days money back, 3 years stolen-replacement scheme are always a pleasant surprise to any new customer asking about Festool.

I don't think that Festool aren't making any more or less profit from each machine than they were 2 1/2 years ago, just selling more of them.

I am surpised to hear what you say about French dealers as I thought the ruling against Festool was EU wide, maybe the French market isn't as competitive as the UK one with some dealers slashing prices and the rest of us playing catch-up.

One point that may now come into effect though, is the GBP to Euro exchange rate. Dealers in Germany, France etc can surely now supply UK customers with Festool product at a far lower price. Okay machines will require a plug change but UK dealers heavily discounting in order to reach a target may have to rethink their strategy.

In my hobby, I order parts from UK and German dealers, but at the moment the prices from German suppliers are so much lower for exactly the same item, I feel compelled to take advantage of the exchange rate.

Just my thoughts.

Have a great day.

Warren

 

[Pixel]

You are all forgetting why festool dealers started to give 25% plus discounts, where before, as someone said you were offered 10% off accessories once you had paid full up for the tool.
The Competitions Commission fined Festool for what they found to be unfair trading practices, I think this is called robbery in layman's terms.
They have the same practices over here in France, full up with 10% off accessories, but then again France doesn't have and Competitions Commission. The dealers in France also moan about how difficult it is to sell and earn from Festool but I think that is just dealers for you, car dealers, antique dealers even drug dealers say they don't make anything.

It's a tricky subject but I don't have any complaint with Festool themselves. Apart from what I can only put down to growing pains which have led to issues with the level of service, they have presented us with the same offering as they always have, excellent products with a fair deal for end users, 15 days money back, 3 years stolen-replacement scheme are always a pleasant surprise to any new customer asking about Festool.

I don't think that Festool aren't making any more or less profit from each machine than they were 2 1/2 years ago, just selling more of them.

I am surpised to hear what you say about French dealers as I thought the ruling against Festool was EU wide, maybe the French market isn't as competitive as the UK one with some dealers slashing prices and the rest of us playing catch-up.

One point that may now come into effect though, is the GBP to Euro exchange rate. Dealers in Germany, France etc can surely now supply UK customers with Festool product at a far lower price. Okay machines will require a plug change but UK dealers heavily discounting in order to reach a target may have to rethink their strategy.

In my hobby, I order parts from UK and German dealers, but at the moment the prices from German suppliers are so much lower for exactly the same item, I feel compelled to take advantage of the exchange rate.

Just my thoughts.

Have a great day.

Warren

Since the ruling, dealers have had more control of what they charge rather than having Festool looking over their shoulders, as you can probably verify, Festool keep their margins, its the dealers who loose out by discounting.

You need to understand the EU to realise there are actually 2 EU's in Europe, there is the EU (France, Germany, Spain, Italy etc) and there is the UK EU.
Over here everyone ignores the EU, the French especially, but in the UK they create hundreds of Quango's to carry out EU directives and them blame the EU for their problems.
The best example of this is the HSE, they write hideous laws based on EU directives that no other country follows.
So when Festool got their grilling from the Competitions Commission the French and I assume all other countries ignored it, The UK on the other hand has a Quango Department for fair trading so would have come down on Festool like all Quqngo's do with a big heavy hand.

Just my thought and experience Warren, waiting patiently for your response.

Pixel

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Hi Pixel

To be honest I don't know all the ins and outs of the fine Festool received, only snippets of information mostly gleaned from this well informed forum.

The results are dealers can set their own pricing, which is clearly stated on every price list and brochure we receive.

I did think, and I may be wrong, that the initial case against Festool had nothing to do with the UK arm of the business, only the consequences. I thought it stemmed from action brought in Germany?

Like I said, I could well be wrong, and whatever the causes there is nothing to be done by dealers but adjust to the new reselling environment.

I'm curious about the situation in France. Do you mean the authorities are not enforcing the ruling, or worse, are you implying Festool employees are continuing with the old system? Dangerous territory to tread on if you are?

Anyway, its an interesting subject. In the old scheme the end users felt hard done by, in the current scheme it's the dealers having a moan.

Let me assure you my feelings are that Festool are between a rock and a hard place. They can't really win either way in keeping everyone happy and for that I have sympathy for them.

If it were me, I wish, I'd be pretty miffed that I can't sell my own product the way I want to sell it, but that's just my opinion.

Like I said, its an interesting discussion.

Best regards

Warren

 

[aas]

Just a point worth making, with the Euro falling against the pound, some French dealers are cheaper than UK at the moment...

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Just a point worth making, with the Euro falling against the pound, some French dealers are cheaper than UK at the moment...

As I suspected, so the savvy UK Festool buyer should probably be looking to the EU for machines at the moment, after all the warranty I believe is Europe wide. Probably not doing myself any favours here but with the exception of 110v machines until the exchange rate changes UK dealers will no doubt start losing orders to our continental friends.

Best regards

Warren

 

[GarryMartin]

Probably not doing myself any favours here...

On the contrary. I think your honesty and transparency in these posts and your engagement with us on this site has done you the world of good and I'm sure will bring its own rewards.

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Thanks Garry, kind words.

I really enjoy the forum, it is a valuable source of information to help me tweak my business to meet the needs of customers and to make our offering as attractive as possible. We've worked on our stock levels, our packaging and our communication, all through reading about the various issues brought to the forum's attention.

For instance we buy in special double wall corrugated cartons to pack all our Systainers when shipping. They're not cheap but they reduce damage in transit enormously, this was directly after a post from one member a few years ago. To improve even more our next carton order will include secondary double wall carton for heavier machines, like OF2200 and Domino XL's.

So please bring problems or preferences to the forum people, it really does help dealers raise their game, well this dealer anyway.

Best regards

Warren

 

[mrboult]

Thanks for system container.co.uk Warren!

[attachimg=1]

 

[Pixel]

Hi Pixel

To be honest I don't know all the ins and outs of the fine Festool received, only snippets of information mostly gleaned from this well informed forum.

The results are dealers can set their own pricing, which is clearly stated on every price list and brochure we receive.

I did think, and I may be wrong, that the initial case against Festool had nothing to do with the UK arm of the business, only the consequences. I thought it stemmed from action brought in Germany?

Like I said, I could well be wrong, and whatever the causes there is nothing to be done by dealers but adjust to the new reselling environment.

I'm curious about the situation in France. Do you mean the authorities are not enforcing the ruling, or worse, are you implying Festool employees are continuing with the old system? Dangerous territory to tread on if you are?

Anyway, its an interesting subject. In the old scheme the end users felt hard done by, in the current scheme it's the dealers having a moan.

Let me assure you my feelings are that Festool are between a rock and a hard place. They can't really win either way in keeping everyone happy and for that I have sympathy for them.

If it were me, I wish, I'd be pretty miffed that I can't sell my own product the way I want to sell it, but that's just my opinion.

Like I said, its an interesting discussion.

Best regards

Warren

Seem to remember it was a UK enquiry against the practices of Festool Germany and their price fixing policies.

I can remember years ago when I bought festool tools for my business in the UK that my local supplier use to give me around 5% discount saying their margins were controlled, but, if I bought other items at the same time, non festool, then I was given bigger discounts on the other tools to compensate the lack of discount on the festool items.
After the ruling they offered better discounts but now they find it hard or should I say non profitable to try and compete with the internet sellers who buy large bulk and move them on for minimum profit.

In France they offer 3% if your lucky saying there is no profit in Festool, sound familiar, the only time I can get 10%, or if I spend big money 15%, is to speak direct with Festool France and discuss the issues of prices compared with say the UK or Germany, then they give my local supplier authority to discount, sounds very much like control to me but as I said before, it appears that its only the UK that follows EU ruling

There are websites in France that offer some discount but that is eaten up by their hideous postage charges.

I get the impression from artisans and suppliers that Protools decision to rename all their products as Festool has caused a massive drop in purchases, in Europe Protool was seen as tools for Professionals and Festool was more for the weekend DIYer, I can remember seeing the same tools side by side yet the Protool version was more expensive, why I asked,  and the salesman said it was a more professional tool.

Maybe it is the fact they sell less in France than say Germany or the UK that discounts are not very big, or maybe its something else, one thing is for sure, I will never know why.

 

[aas]

Hi Pixel,
I've just picked up a CXS set, 2,6Ah, online dealer in France for 259€, free delivery for any order over 100€, with todays exchange rate, that's £192.  They are doing the non set version for 209€... or £155.  WIth the euro falling like it is, is cheaper here than the UK at the moment, and shipping is rarely more than 9,90€... after getting hit for £23.95 everytime I order from ffx, I don't find that expensive!
That said, I do agree with you that in general French stores (of all sorts) don't like to discount, but it doesn't mean they don't.
When the euro is weak, I buy here, when it's strong I buy in UK.
I'm making the most of the weak euro at the mo!
A

 

[Pixel]

Hi Pixel,
I've just picked up a CXS set, 2,6Ah, online dealer in France for 259€, free delivery for any order over 100€, with todays exchange rate, that's £192.  They are doing the non set version for 209€... or £155.  WIth the euro falling like it is, is cheaper here than the UK at the moment, and shipping is rarely more than 9,90€... after getting hit for 23.95 everytime I order from ffx, I don't find that expensive!
That said, I do agree with you that in general French stores (of all sorts) don't like to discount, but it doesn't mean they don't.
When the euro is weak, I buy here, when it's strong I buy in UK.
I'm making the most of the weak euro at the mo!

Maybe there are box movers in France for the likes of a CXS and other drills, Festool are not really renowned for making drills that are in front of the competition and therefor need to discount, I am talking more about the tools they make that are far better than the competition, for these there are very few dealers on line so you are stuck with local suppliers who don't give discount as where in the UK 25% seems the norm for everything.

I buy in Euros from France, no doubt you do the same, but if you lived in the UK or paid for the items on a UK card you would not get anywhere near the exchange rate you are using, you are using bank trading rates and for transferring small amounts you need to knock off at least 5%, more if your paying by card.

Just my opinion of the experience I have had with Festool in France.

 

[GarryMartin]

I've just picked up a CXS set, 2,6Ah, online dealer in France for 259€, free delivery for any order over 100€, with todays exchange rate, that's £192.

If you don't have a credit/debit card that doesn't charge for purchases in a different currency, then you'd have to add a few quid to that comparison too. And of course, specifically for that CXS set, the charger would have the "wrong" plug.

By comparison, you can buy it in the UK from Warren [member=8822]toolfest.co.uk[/member] for £198 including VAT and delivery, and you'd get the "right" plug (as a UK user; I recognise you're actually from France).

That sort of makes it a no-brainer to order that particular example from the UK, but I know there are other models where it may be economical to purchase from another EU country.

 

[aas]

Point taken about the CXS... but also ordered MFK700, TS55, CTL Midi, PSB420 from sites in France - maybe they are box shifters... I'm relying on Festool customer service to take care of things if there are problems. But so far no problems, all Jan 2015 tools being delivered.
I guess in an ideal world I would have a friendly relationship with the local dealer, but I'm afraid I care too much about the bottom line, rightly or wrongly.. probably wrongly!
Still getting my Makita from UK though, and Festool accessories are cheaper from UK... card charges and exchange rate differences are all part of it, and I'm fortunate enough I have accounts both sides of the channel so I can pick and choose...

 

[Pixel]

Point taken about the CXS... but also ordered MFK700, TS55, CTL Midi, PSB420 from sites in France - maybe they are box shifters... I'm relying on Festool customer service to take care of things if there are problems. But so far no problems, all Jan 2015 tools being delivered.
I guess in an ideal world I would have a friendly relationship with the local dealer, but I'm afraid I care too much about the bottom line, rightly or wrongly.. probably wrongly!
Still getting my Makita from UK though, and Festool accessories are cheaper from UK... card charges and exchange rate differences are all part of it, and I'm fortunate enough I have accounts both sides of the channel so I can pick and choose...

Out of interest how much did you pay for your MFK in france

 

[aas]

549€... for the complete set.  I think last week it was a tiny bit cheaper in UK, but I had free delivery, plus it comes with french plug!.. not been delivered yet as they are waiting on deliveries from Germany.

 

[Pixel]

549€... for the complete set.  I think last week it was a tiny bit cheaper in UK, but I had free delivery, plus it comes with french plug!.. not been delivered yet as they are waiting on deliveries from Germany.

OK give me the site, they are selling the set for the same price as the non set versions, I have the festool rep coming round next week and it would be good ammunition for me to show him what is available and ask him why my local supplier has his hands tied when offering discounts.

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Thanks for system container.co.uk Warren!

[attachimg=1]

No problem MrB, thanks for the order.

Best regards

Warren

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Seem to remember it was a UK enquiry against the practices of Festool Germany and their price fixing policies.

I'm really curious to know who it was....

 

[aas]

Pixel - PM sent.

Warren - can you ship systainers to France?.. don't seem to find anyone who does them here. A couple of sites listed on the Tanos site for France, but they don't actually stock or sell them! I want to replace all my Festool systainers with Anthracite ones, plus add a few more...

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Pixel - PM sent.

Warren - can you ship systainers to France?.. don't seem to find anyone who does them here. A couple of sites listed on the Tanos site for France, but they don't actually stock or sell them! I want to replace all my Festool systainers with Anthracite ones, plus add a few more...

Really sorry aas, no shipping to France at the moment.

Best regards

Warren