Using a dowel draw die

[Packard]

The 1/4” diameter dowels I have been buying have been all over the place dimensionally. In addition, several were not even round.  This created assembly issues as I was gluing up wood wheels to the dowels for push toys. 

To a lesser degree it made the choice of bearing holes problematic.

I made a 1/4” diameter dowel draw die that worked impressively well for bringing dowels into size tolerances I could use. 

I have two questions.

1.  I see people hammering the dowels through dies.  And I see people pulling the dowels through the dies.  In addition I have seen people pushing or pulling the dowels while having the dowel chucked into a hand held electric drill.

Any thoughts on this?

2.  Any thoughts on the lengths I should be feeding through the die?  Obviously, if I am hammering the dowel, I will need to keep it shorter than if I am pulling it. 

Not a big rush on this.  I am starting to make next year’s donated Christmas gifts.  So I have time.  The wheel assemblies ar the last piece of the puzzle. 

Note:  I made the die from 1.00” wide X 0.100” mild steel by simply drilling a 1/4” diameter hole and dressing the exit with fine file.  When it gets dull, I will simply drill another hole.  I should need about 200 inches of drawn axles. 

That is 2 axles per toy, each 2” long appx. (I believe my cutoff jig is for 1-7/8”.)

Thanks,
Packard

 

[jeffinsgf]

I started to suggest you buy on-dimension dowel from Baird Brothers, but I just looked and 5/16" is the smallest they make. If you ever need dowel 5/16" or larger, I highly recommend them. Spot on dimension, perfectly round and available in a wide range of species.

These axle pins might save you a lot of work, and the price looks okay, compared to driving dowels through a die.  [big grin]
https://www.bearwood.com/product3611.html

 

[Packard]

I started to suggest you buy on-dimension dowel from Baird Brothers, but I just looked and 5/16" is the smallest they make. If you ever need dowel 5/16" or larger, I highly recommend them. Spot on dimension, perfectly round and available in a wide range of species.

These axle pins might save you a lot of work, and the price looks okay, compared to driving dowels through a die.  [big grin]
https://www.bearwood.com/product3611.html

I buy my wheels from Bearwood and the last time I bought my dowels, I also bought them from Bearwood.  About 1/2 was perfect.  But the rest needed attention.  I did not know about the dowel dies back then.  I would chuck the dowels in a drill and rub sand paper against it until it fit the wheels.  A huge waste of time.  I have a variety of drill bits that include fractional, metric, Letter size—6 different bits that hover around 0.250” to cover the wheel to axle fit and also axle to bearing fit.  The dowel sizing die promises to make work easier.

Thanks for the suggestions.  And Bear Woods’ wheels were 100% on spec. And decent pricing too.

Packard

 

[hdv]

I really don't like hammering wood to create dowels (I do own a dowel plate, but have stopped using it long ago). That's why I use these to make various sized dowels:
https://www.fine-tools.com/G301830.html

But, if you don't make a lot of them, I admit this might be a bit too much to spend. Moreover, I think they are only available in metric.

What about the Veritas Dowel Maker or their Dowel Cutters?

 

[Cheese]

If you're having a difficult time running the dowels through the dowel die you made, you may want to drill an additional hole just a touch larger and size the larger diameter dowels in 2 steps.

For instance, not knowing exactly what size stock you're dealing with, here's some examples.
A G drill has a .261" OD
A F drill has a .257" OD
A 6.6mm drill has a .2598" OD
A 6.5mm drill has a .2559" OD
A 6.4mm drill has a .2520" OD
A 6.3mm drill has a .2480" OD

Another option is if the axle diameters are oversized but in a tight range, it may just be more expedient for you to drill the wheels to a larger ID...I'm specifically looking at that 6.4mm drill or 6.5mm drill giving you a hole that's .002"-.006" oversized.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I like this simple dowel cutter as it doesn't take anything you don't already have (this video has something like 11 Instagram clips concatenated; link goes to the first one which is the dowel cutter):

Dowel-Making Jig

The Instagram account gets more content @Takuwoodcraft

 

[greg mann]

The tool Paulmarcel linked to looks pretty easy to cobble together. I would suggest using 5/16 dowel to reduce to the size you need as opposed to square stock as in the video. It is easy to chuck up in your drill and the stock removal will be minimal and consistent.

 

[Packard]

Let be understood that I am not using these dowels for joinery, except in the instance of attaching the wheels to the axles. 

I have two types of fitment.  The first is a slip fit for the gluing of the axle to the wheels’ holes.  If it is too tight, then the fit will wipe almost all of the glue off the axle and will result in a weak attachment.

If it is too loose, then I have a wheel that will not revolve true and straight.  But more on that:  I found that if I apply glue to the dowel end and to the wheel’s hole and wait about a minute, both the dowel and the wheel will swell and they will close a loose fit to a snug one.

It is not that I can’t get a decent fit, it is that I am making all kinds of adjustments on each dowel.  It is always a pleasure when I come across a dowel that is a correct size to begin with.

As an aside, I always purchase dowels for joinery that are  pre-made as they make stronger joints, cost less and make life easier. 

Two points:  I have a working draw die.  It works fine.  I’ve tried it on already cut to length axles, which I tap in and through with a soft faced hammer. I have also found that I can tap a 12” long piece pretty easily and that is handier.

I can get 36” long dowels locally.  I think I can pull a 36” dowel, but pushing one would be a challenge as the 1/4” size will bow and break. 

If I decide to pull the 36” pieces, how do I grab the dowel to pull it?  Does chucking it a hand drill make sense?

Basically, what is the best way to re-size existing 1/4” dowels to “true” 1/4” diameter?

I will not be making dowels from stock that I have ripped to 1/4” square or any other dimensions.  I have about 200 inches of material overall to re-size. 

I have no doubt that I can come up with a solution by trial and error.  I am trying to eliminate the “error” side of that equation.

Thanks,

Packard

 

[Cheese]

I have also found that I can tap a 12” long piece pretty easily and that is handier.

I can get 36” long dowels locally.  I think I can pull a 36” dowel, but pushing one would be a challenge as the 1/4” size will bow and break. 

I think you've solved your own problem...just push the 12" lengths through the die. Putting up with the hassle of using 36" lengths buys you nothing but frustration and lost time as the 36" dowels still need to be cut down to short 1" pieces.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Wouldn't it make more sense to use Bear's axle pins glued into the vehicle and have the wheels rotate on the axle, instead of the axle rotating through the vehicle?

 

[squall_line]

Wouldn't it make more sense to use Bear's axle pins glued into the vehicle and have the wheels rotate on the axle, instead of the axle rotating through the vehicle?

That requires the axles to have ends glued on to hold the wheels.

I've seen it done both ways, on most of the toys my kids have, the narrower body vehicles have the wheels fixed to the axle, the wider body vehicles have the axles fixed to the body (but not thru).

 

[jeffinsgf]

The Bear axle pins linked above are turned with the wheel stop as a feature. They're also slightly undersized to fit the 1/4" hole in the wheel and tapered to align easily with the holes in the vehicle.

 

[Packard]

The Bear axle pins linked above are turned with the wheel stop as a feature. They're also slightly undersized to fit the 1/4" hole in the wheel and tapered to align easily with the holes in the vehicle.

I should have offered better clarity on how I use the axles.

I first glue the axle into one 1/2” wide wheel.

I then slip it the axel through a 9/32” hole in 3/4” thick stock.

Finally I glue the second wheel onto the axle. 

The needed length of dowel is 1-3/4”, but I leave 1/8” clearance, so the dowels are cut to 1-7/8” long.

The photo below may make this clearer.

There is some side to side moment of the wheel assembly, and some clearance in the “bearing” hole in the 3/4” stock.  But that is what I found I needed for a free rolling toy.

In any case, I looked at those spindles from Bear Woods, but gluing in 3/8” into the body of the toy seemed too short for this application.  If I make any wider bodied toys, I will consider them.

Thanks for the link.

Packard.

 

[squall_line]

The Bear axle pins linked above are turned with the wheel stop as a feature. They're also slightly undersized to fit the 1/4" hole in the wheel and tapered to align easily with the holes in the vehicle.

Sorry about that, Jeff, I should have actually looked at them before blindly commenting like that.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Now I get it. I was thinking 1-1/2"ish thick body.

I'm with Cheese on using 12" lengths, rather than trying to push (or pull) a full 36". They're going to get cut into 2" pieces at some point.

If you haven't already purchased your dowel, there are mail order companies similar to Baird that do offer tighter tolerance 1/4" dowel. One I ran across said plus or minus .015.

 

[jeffinsgf]

By the way, your pup is pretty cute.

 

[Packard]

By the way, your pup is pretty cute.

These are for 3 to 5 year old.  The parent tend to gush over one design or another. Min the end, the kids seem to like them all about the same.

So, in reality, I’m making toys that please the parents more so than the kids.

And the pup was one of the most popular.

But note these are being distributed by a charity.  I get very little feedback from the users.  I’ve been asked to produce more for next Christmas.  So a successful use of my scrap and my free time.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Are you pattern routing the parts, or cut and sand?

 

[Packard]

I tried pattern routing, but the very first toy I tried to make was this 1930s style coupe.

If I was routering in the wrong direction (to the grain) the pattern bit would climb the stock. I had to use the pattern on opposite sides of the stock to get this done.

If you look at the finished piece, you will see that there were three (3) holes to be drilled in the coupe.  Two for the wheel axles, and one for the window.  I used the centers of those holes to attach the pattern.  The centers were through drilled to allow attaching the pattern to the piece.

I then marked the routering path on each side of the pattern.  (See images below).

The black magic marker line represents the area that I could use the router on.  Then I would flip and router the other side on the black magic marker line.

The start/stop positions needed to be fairly accurate or the router would destroy the piece. I don’t have any photo of it in my computer, but I will look back in FOG.  I had a thread on this exact subject seeking advice. 

The toys required a good bit of final sanding, so I feel free to call them “hand made”.

Since I was rough cutting the blanks with a scroll saw, it ended up being easier to cut more precisely and finish up on the bench-top belt sander. 

The patterns on the toys I designed after the Coupe, were cut from 1/4” nominal plywood and held in place with push pins.  Much easier.

I ended up making the dog, a Leica look alike (camera), an Indy style race car, a sports car, a baby chick, a baby duckling.

I gave a few to friends to gift to their kids and donated 65 toys to the local charity.  A productive use of scrap and it kept me out of bars. [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

I ran across this a while back and thought about your Christmas toy venture.  [smile]  Maybe you should contact RR and enquire about subcontracting the wooden bodies for them.  [big grin]

They refer to this model as their Rolls-Royce Cameo. These gems go for $5800...who'd have thunk? The ad copy is worth reading as it's quite an interesting piece...certainly made me chuckle a few times.

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