Using Waterstones

[jacko9]

If your interested in Shapton Pro, check out this offer from Amazon the Kuromaku is the Shapton Pro stone.  I bought 3 stones from this source and they came in great condition.  The price varies from time to time but, they are the same high quality stones that uyou get from any supplier.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=Kuromaku

Jack

 

[avanderhoorn]

[member=8318]jacko9[/member] do you know what the difference is between these ones and the normal Shapton ones?

 

[avanderhoorn]

Looking at it, it seems like its now a choice between the Shapton Professional Stones and the Shapton Glass Stones. Besides the maintenance factor (which is a pretty big consideration), does anyone have any thoughts on the differences between the two?

 

[avanderhoorn]

[member=8318]jacko9[/member] Additionally wondering why you have chosen the glass stones for some and pros for others?

 

[JeromeM]

Sorry to add choices but there is also the Shapton M series that are also spray and go

http://www.amazon.com/Shapton-Ceramic-Whetstone-1000-Grit/dp/B001TPH922/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1428553896&sr=8-3&keywords=shapton+m5++grit+ceramic+whetstone#productDetails

 

[jacko9]

I have a mix of stones that started about three years ago.  Up until then I had King stones that had to be soaked and when used they dished out quickly (lost their flatness).

I upgraded to Bester when Japan Woodworking was closing their retail operation and one of the guys there that did sharpening recommended the Bester brand.  They were an improvement over the King Stones but, they still had to be soaked.

Next an article in Fine Woodworking magazine talked about the Shapton Glass Stones so, I decided to try a few of those to avoid the soaking issue.  Initially I got the 1000 and 8000 grit Glass stones to try them out but they were expensive.  I learned on a Japanese Kitchen Knife forum that a lot of the sharpeners like the Shapton Pro stones for the feel and open pore that was said to not clog up as much as the Shapton Glass stones.  I found the Amazon web sale and ordered the Kuromaku (which is the Shapton Pro stones) for about half price so I decided to fill in some grit sizes and ordered the 1500 and 5000 grit.  The 1500 stones was mismarked on the Amazon site and I recieved the Shapton Pro 320 grit (which I decided to keep)

My current stone lineup is;

Bester 700 and 1200 grit
Kitayama 8000 grit
King 6000 grit
Shapton Pro 320 and 5000 grit
Shapton Glass 500, 1000, 2000, 8000 grit
Nubatama Ume 1000, 3000 grit
Nubatama Bamboo 150
Suehiro Cerax 320, 1000, 6000 grit
Atoma Diamond plate 140 grit

The Shapton Glass is a true splash and go stone, they cut fast and stay flat a long time.

The Shapton Pro is a more open pore stone that also sharpens fast and stays flat but needs a 1 minute rinse before you start.  The Shapton Pro is one of their older models.

The Nubatama Ume is a high quality stone that is exceptional hard and flat stone that sharpens very fast and stays flat.  These need a few minutes soak or rinse under the faucet.

The Suehiro was a special at a knife forum that I decided to try since they were pretty cheap at the time.  The 320 grit needs to be soaked and even though it cuts fast it dishes quickly.  The 1000 and 6000 grit are similar to the Shapton Glass.

If I had to start from scratch I would recommend the Shapton Pro 320, Shapton Glass 500 (extra thick), Shapton Glass 1000 (or Nubatama Ume 1000grit), Shapton Glass 2000 or Nubatama Ume 3000, Shapton Pro 5000 and Shapton Glass 8000 grit.

There is a lot less maintenance in these newer stones than anything I have used in the past and the Atoma 140 Diamond Plate makes quick work to get them dead flat in less than a minute.  The newer stones like the ones I mentioned also don't dig in if you get the edge tilted like the softer King stones where it was so easy to gouge the stone.

I can't say enough about the Veritas MkII sharpening jig that has a bevel setting attachment to get you to the correct bevel angle so you don't need to re-establish the bevel every time you sharpen.  If I need to freshen up a chisel edge I set it to the bevel angle and I normally can just hit the 3000 or 5000 grit stone and I'm ready to go again.

Let me know If I haven't answered your questions.

Jack 

 

[avanderhoorn]

[member=8318]jacko9[/member] wow thanks for the feedback! Why the switch back and forward between the pro and the glass stones for the different grits. Also you see to have a lot of stones between 220 and 8000, do you find that it makes much of a difference between all the different steps you have over just 220, 1000, 4000 & 8000?

 

[waho6o9]

Hooked up a recirculating pump from a fish tank and

rigged up a system to  sharpen up some blades

and it worked pretty good.
[attachimg=1]

 

[jacko9]

[member=8318]jacko9[/member] wow thanks for the feedback! Why the switch back and forward between the pro and the glass stones for the different grits. Also you see to have a lot of stones between 220 and 8000, do you find that it makes much of a difference between all the different steps you have over just 220, 1000, 4000 & 8000?

The switch between the Glass and Pro stones was just to try each and to fill in a grit needed.  The 150 and 320 stones are for repairing deep nicks in the edge.  After the 1000 grit I just find it easier to remove the scratch marks quicker with closer grit stones.  I wouldn't do this if I wasn't using the Veritas MkII sharpening jig where it's easy to rinse the grit off and go to the next level.

Jack

 

[FOGNewbie]

If your interested in Shapton Pro, check out this offer from Amazon the Kuromaku is the Shapton Pro stone.  I bought 3 stones from this source and they came in great condition.  The price varies from time to time but, they are the same high quality stones that uyou get from any supplier.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=Kuromaku

Jack

Uggh I knew I should have come here first... I just ordered some Shapton (traditional?) pro Waterstones. 1000, 8000, 15000 and a Nagura(sp?) stone. Your link showed the 8000 for $30.00 less. Oh well, someone has to make money. I'm giving this setup a try to see if I can improve the edge I get on chisels and plane blades. Plus I'm trying to see if I can extend the time before I need to hone/ sharpen again.

Back on topic, I've been using a 1000/ 8000 Norton combo stone with a Nagura and a piece of leather for a strop with strop compound. This actually works well. I can shave forearm hair with that setup.

I have a diamond plate(DMT) that I use for flattening my water stones and coarse grinding (I don't have a grinder) like a deep nick in an edge or to establish a primary bevel. I also use sand paper for coarse grit work or initial flattening of chisels or plane blades. Mount the sandpaper to glass and go at it. Usually I don't have to go any lower in grit than 400 to 600 grit. from there, I can go to the combo waterstone then the strop.

BTW I just rub the Norton waterstone against the DMT diamond plate to flatten it. If it appears to be dished/ I let it go to long before flattening, I draw pencil marks in a grid pattern and then rub the waterstone on the diamond plate to see if there are any high spots. I got this technique from David Charleworth. His DVD on sharpening explains this process.

 

[waho6o9]

For those in need of a grinder:
http://tools.woot.com/offers/8-inch-slow-speed-bench-grinder-9?ref=cnt_wp_1_7

 

[FOGNewbie]

Thanks! will have to look into this.

 

[waho6o9]

You're welcome.

I purchased one on ebay for around 79.99 so their price @ 49.00 is
pretty darn good.

 

[mouppe]

...or you can just use cool grinding wheels with a regular bench grinder.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32981&cat=1,43072,43080&ap=1

 

[grbmds]

While I recently have acquired stones for hand sharpening, I have had great success with the Worksharp 3000 and various attachments to accommodate wide blades (a horizontal slow spinning plate rather than upright wheel). The Worksharp works especially well with chisels and, because it is so fast and the results good, it is not truly necessary to create a micro-bevel. Just sharpen at the desired angle. When it's not sharp anymore, resharpen. It is fast, but a little pricey (although not nearly as pricey as some wheels are). Each to his own, though. Many get satisfaction from the hand sharpening process. It is cathartic and satisfying when you get great results.

 

[FOGNewbie]

While I recently have acquired stones for hand sharpening, I have had great success with the Worksharp 3000 and various attachments to accommodate wide blades (a horizontal slow spinning plate rather than upright wheel). The Worksharp works especially well with chisels and, because it is so fast and the results good, it is not truly necessary to create a micro-bevel. Just sharpen at the desired angle. When it's not sharp anymore, resharpen. It is fast, but a little pricey (although not nearly as pricey as some wheels are). Each to his own, though. Many get satisfaction from the hand sharpening process. It is cathartic and satisfying when you get great results.

I had someone sharpen a wooden plane blade for me once on a Veritas MK II power sharpening system. It did the job very well. I thought about going that route at one point, but right now I'm trying to get down sharpening by hand. Maybe
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=48435&cat=1,43072

 

[Ellingferd]

Hand sharpening isnt as difficult as you think. Here is a video from Paul Sellers sharpening a $10 set of chisels to perfection using sandpaper and a strop. He uses diamond stones day in and day out, but to get started you really dont need much. I use his technique and I can tell you it is very fast, and very effective with little to no learning curve. He demonstrates his technique in another video for plane irons as well. I use the diamond plates but I dont even use a leather strop. Just a piece of wood that I rub chromium oxide on. Very, very sharp result in about 2 minutes and, if you strop every little bit while you are working, you dont need to do a big sharpening for some time, even when putting the tools through a lot of work.

At any rate, a much cheaper method (~100 dollars for diamond plates, a scrap piece of glass for initial flattening, and glass cleaner as lapping fluid), which leaves you with much more $ to spend on Festool. I am a novice, and I learned this method in about 20 minutes, and my tools are incredibly sharp.



Edit: forgot to include link.

 

[grbmds]

Hand sharpening isnt as difficult as you think. Here is a video from Paul Sellers sharpening a $10 set of chisels to perfection using sandpaper and a strop. He uses diamond stones day in and day out, but to get started you really dont need much. I use his technique and I can tell you it is very fast, and very effective with little to no learning curve. He demonstrates his technique in another video for plane irons as well. I use the diamond plates but I dont even use a leather strop. Just a piece of wood that I rub chromium oxide on. Very, very sharp result in about 2 minutes and, if you strop every little bit while you are working, you dont need to do a big sharpening for some time, even when putting the tools through a lot of work.

At any rate, a much cheaper method (~100 dollars for diamond plates, a scrap piece of glass for initial flattening, and glass cleaner as lapping fluid), which leaves you with much more $ to spend on Festool. I am a novice, and I learned this method in about 20 minutes, and my tools are incredibly sharp.



Edit: forgot to include link.

Actually I don't believe it's that hard anymore. The longest, most tedious part is generally flattening the back of the blade unless you buy planes from Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley. I have diamond stones and a Norton Waterstone for finishing. The Worksharp is more foolproof for beginners I think. At least it was for me some time ago when I first realized that the reason I wasn't getting good results with my chisels and planes was because I wasn't paying enough attention to sharpening.

 

[FOGNewbie]

Hand sharpening isnt as difficult as you think. Here is a video from Paul Sellers sharpening a $10 set of chisels to perfection using sandpaper and a strop. He uses diamond stones day in and day out, but to get started you really dont need much. I use his technique and I can tell you it is very fast, and very effective with little to no learning curve. He demonstrates his technique in another video for plane irons as well. I use the diamond plates but I dont even use a leather strop. Just a piece of wood that I rub chromium oxide on. Very, very sharp result in about 2 minutes and, if you strop every little bit while you are working, you dont need to do a big sharpening for some time, even when putting the tools through a lot of work.

At any rate, a much cheaper method (~100 dollars for diamond plates, a scrap piece of glass for initial flattening, and glass cleaner as lapping fluid), which leaves you with much more $ to spend on Festool. I am a novice, and I learned this method in about 20 minutes, and my tools are incredibly sharp.



Edit: forgot to include link.

Actually I don't believe it's that hard anymore. The longest, most tedious part is generally flattening the back of the blade unless you buy planes from Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley. I have diamond stones and a Norton Waterstone for finishing. The Worksharp is more foolproof for beginners I think. At least it was for me some time ago when I first realized that the reason I wasn't getting good results with my chisels and planes was because I wasn't paying enough attention to sharpening.

What both of you said, I am an aspiring novice and i have obtained very sharp edges with sandpaper mounted to a glass plate(mulitple grits of course). I also agree that most of the time spent is the initial flattening. I have now prefer water/ whetstones and finishing with a Nagura slurry and strop. This technique seems to work a little better for me. The edge seems to hold up a little better especially when I frequently stop to strop (sounds like a jingle/ slogan).

Just got a Shapton 15000 Grit whetstone and Dia-flat lapping plate delivered today. Looking forward to testing it this weekend. I got an edge on an old Stanley spokeshave with a Ron Hock replacement blade to shave end grain a test piece of white oak well enough to think I might not even need to sand if I can repeat these results on an actual project. I am excited to see if the higher grit stone, and new 1000 and 8000 stones will give even better results.

I think my left forearm might be bald this weekend. [scared] Maybe I should switch to paper to check sharpness. [unsure]