VAC SYS DISCONTINUED?

[afish]

So I've done a little research and think I found something similar that will work (at least for me) It's the Virutex multiple fastening system, it uses compressed air instead of a vacuum, but is a very simple and affordable design that tilts and swivels.  You can also add multiple head units and get an option so you can vacuum it down to a work surface, it also uses a readily available rubber seal on the head.

It still uses vacuum it just uses compressed air through a venturi to create the vacuum.  They work but from what I understand they need a good sized compressor.  It is a viable option.  Its also easy to convert an old compressor if you already have one.  I had 3 compressors at one point.  I sold one and was trying to sell the small emglo/senco compressor which is a good compressor but its not really worth much since everyone is going to cordless nail guns (which is why I had it and no longer needed it) then it dawned on me to turn it into a vacuum pump.  Very happy it occurred to me before I gave it away.  As far as being in a noisy environment so sound isnt an issue that may be true but if it was me I know I would end up leaving it running and forgetting to turn it off eventually shortening its life.  I personally fail to see any situation where a motor running constantly is better than one that cycles on/off as needed.  Unless it was something that was constantly cycling on and off but with something like a compressor or vacuum pump that only cycles occasionally its a no go.  I use mine for vacuum pressing too so running a pump needlessly for hours on end isnt in the cards.  While I understand that festool didnt intend for their pump to be used for anything other than clamping I dont need multiples of the same thing for dedicated tasks either.  Space is a premium for me and the only thing stopping me from buying more tools is space so I need to be as streamlined as possible.  The small pucks work just as well for work holding are simple to make and can be made in any shape or size, they do lack the full swivel capabilities of the vac sys but its not real hard to hit the lever and turn the part.   

 

[BarneyD]

I ordered the complete set (pump and both heads) from TN a couple of weeks ago. Arrived a couple of days later. Glad I did. It's already seen a lot of use in my little shop. So far, I love it.

 

[afish]

As with any large co. The real reason is the bottom line. I think the VAc sys while its really loved by some is a pretty slow seller.  I remember reading here some people had bought a brand new unit and the mfr. date was already several years old.  This tells me its been sitting on some shelf for years.  The cost vs. reward for the tool is hard to justify for most.  Coupled with increasing hard parts to source it was probably just decided to pull the plug and focus on other items.  If it had been a top seller Im sure they would make every effort to continue.

I have found that to be true even in some of the more popular items too. Off of the top of my head, the only thing (date coded) tools that I have which were purchased it the year they were made, are my DF500 and the RO125.  The RAS115 was already 3 years old when I bought it and the TS75 was 2, everything else was at least the previous year, and most of it was purchased in Sept of 19, so most of that year was gone. That is well before the supply chain issues came up.
I just figured that this was rather standard for a lower volume product/brand.

Well, I dont think its a coincidence that the tool that had the longest interval (ras115) is also discontinued.  Also while the 75 isa great saw the 55 is waaaay more popular and a better seller by far so while I would expect some extra shelf time with the 75 two years is a little surprising.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The venturi-vac would definitely be the way to go for me. In the big shop there is an unlimited supply of air. Maybe I should just be looking into the module and heads? The long skinny one could be very useful at times.

 

[squall_line]

I noticed the vac sys was mia at the festool live on Friday.  I wonder if that means they have to go back to a time without.  My understanding of discontinued tools is they keep a supply of parts for repair for some time.

Not surprising.  That's an advertisement.  No sense pitching something you don't sell.

They did an entire segment on polishing headlamps with polishing products that were already discontinued, so the idea of pitching something you don't sell maybe isn't in their vocabulary.  Unless they learned from the commentary on that episode and its implications that maybe you don't do that again.

I can't imagine completely removing the Vac Sys from Festool Live episodes, even if it's discontinued, but I would understand removing it.  I would love to see some of the past episodes re-shot without it just to see how the workflow changes.

 

[afish]

The venturi-vac would definitely be the way to go for me. In the big shop there is an unlimited supply of air. Maybe I should just be looking into the module and heads? The long skinny one could be very useful at times.

The long skinny one is what I was wanting too.  I was just looking at this stuff probably monday or tuesday.  From what I could find its only available in the kit.  I could not find it individually.  I had recently found out that the drawer back for the 89mm drawers I use are just a little narrower than the one I made.  It just fits between the epdm cord.  Here is a couple pics of the proto types I made.  The only thing I changed was making the cup part out of plastic.  The plywood works but you need to seal it up with some wood glue.  I already had the plastic so I just remade them but its kind of pricy so If I didnt already have it I would have just kept the plywood. 

Its not as robust as the vac sys since the frame work is plywood not metal.  I wouldn't try to hand plane with it but it works fine for laminating, routing etc. The cup suction is probably stronger than the plywood.  The heads are interchangeable by just pulling them off and tilts 180° and spins 360° I think I prefer the toggle switch to the foot pedal.  One less thing on the floor and its always right there but to be fair I haven't tried the pedal but looked at them originally and decided on the lever.  using the push to connect fittings makes it easy add or adapt.  The push connect fittings do tend to leak a small amount so I ran 3/8 tubing with barb fittings.  (These are much more leakproof) to several spots in the shop and terminate with a ball valve and push connect fitting.  This way I can just plug into which ever is closest and keep the others closed.  when done its easy to disconnect the the small 1/4" line from the push connect fitting and put it all away.  The compressor you see in the one photo is the one that is switched to vacuum pump prior to finding its permanent home in the shed. 

 

[afish]

Also HEREis a complete set of plans with a parts breakdown for building a auto cycling venturi style pump from veneersupplies.com  they sell all the parts on their site. At least pre covid not sure if they have been impacted supply chain wise. 

 

[squall_line]

The venturi-vac would definitely be the way to go for me. In the big shop there is an unlimited supply of air. Maybe I should just be looking into the module and heads? The long skinny one could be very useful at times.

The long skinny one is what I was wanting too.  I was just looking at this stuff probably monday or tuesday.  From what I could find its only available in the kit.  I could not find it individually. 

The cups are all available individually.  The long skinny one is around $160, PN 580065 and the medium oval is $110, PN 580064.  The larger oval that comes with the SE2 is $130, so the total for all 3 individually would be $400. The kit with all three of those pads plus the classic Systainer is only $380.

I already have two large ovals, so I've been debating the kit vs the individual skinny and medium cups for the last two weeks or so.  I'm still on the fence, honestly, but since the prices go up at the first of the year, I'll pull the trigger one way or the other before then.

 

[afish]

Thanks for the PN's

 

[squall_line]

The heads are interchangeable by just pulling them off and tilts 180° and spins 360° I think I prefer the toggle switch to the foot pedal.  One less thing on the floor and its always right there but to be fair I haven't tried the pedal but looked at them originally and decided on the lever.  using the push to connect fittings makes it easy add or adapt.  The push connect fittings do tend to leak a small amount so I ran 3/8 tubing with barb fittings.  (These are much more leakproof) to several spots in the shop and terminate with a ball valve and push connect fitting.  This way I can just plug into which ever is closest and keep the others closed.  when done its easy to disconnect the the small 1/4" line from the push connect fitting and put it all away.  The compressor you see in the one photo is the one that is switched to vacuum pump prior to finding its permanent home in the shed.

Very cool!  If and when my pods break, I may look at this again and ask if there are any carving plans for the plywood pieces.

Funny thing about "foot pedal", the instructions for the Vac Sys MFT mount actually include mounting the "pedal" upside-down under the right hand side of the MFT and activated by pulling up with your hand rather than pressing down with a foot.  The recommended spot is pretty much the same location as the switch gear on the CMS table.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Does the steel VAS SYS mounting plate that attaches to the frame of the MFT3 also fit the older MFT 1080?

 

[rst]

While I have two complete sets and heads, before Festool made them available, I had been using two Virutex units that I installed on bar swivels...which reminds me that I really should sell those.

 

[Shane Holland]

If there are wear parts or consumables it might pay to assess future need and stock up if/while you still can.

Or maybe [member=48572]Shane Holland[/member] can shed light on what the spare parts situation might be going forward.

Festool's general policy is to have spare parts available for many years after a tool is discontinued, I'm unsure if that policy may be impacted by supply chain issues outside of Festool's control. That would be a question for Festool to answer.

However, current indications are that accessories will continue to be available.

Shane

 

[Jason.L.Hagen]

The venturi-vac would definitely be the way to go for me. In the big shop there is an unlimited supply of air. Maybe I should just be looking into the module and heads? The long skinny one could be very useful at times.

The long skinny one is what I was wanting too.  I was just looking at this stuff probably monday or tuesday.  From what I could find its only available in the kit.  I could not find it individually.  I had recently found out that the drawer back for the 89mm drawers I use are just a little narrower than the one I made.  It just fits between the epdm cord.  Here is a couple pics of the proto types I made.  The only thing I changed was making the cup part out of plastic.  The plywood works but you need to seal it up with some wood glue.  I already had the plastic so I just remade them but its kind of pricy so If I didnt already have it I would have just kept the plywood. 

Its not as robust as the vac sys since the frame work is plywood not metal.  I wouldn't try to hand plane with it but it works fine for laminating, routing etc. The cup suction is probably stronger than the plywood.  The heads are interchangeable by just pulling them off and tilts 180° and spins 360° I think I prefer the toggle switch to the foot pedal.  One less thing on the floor and its always right there but to be fair I haven't tried the pedal but looked at them originally and decided on the lever.  using the push to connect fittings makes it easy add or adapt.  The push connect fittings do tend to leak a small amount so I ran 3/8 tubing with barb fittings.  (These are much more leakproof) to several spots in the shop and terminate with a ball valve and push connect fitting.  This way I can just plug into which ever is closest and keep the others closed.  when done its easy to disconnect the the small 1/4" line from the push connect fitting and put it all away.  The compressor you see in the one photo is the one that is switched to vacuum pump prior to finding its permanent home in the shed.

This is pretty sweet looking. I do like toggle switch idea!

 

[Bob D.]

"However, current indications are that accessories will continue to be available."

That's good to hear, thanks Shane.

 

[afish]

im pretty sure its a law that mfr. have to make parts for X amount of years. 7 years rings a bell but im not 100% on that.  however this whole supply chain issue who knows. Im not sure why festool decided to make the cups the way they did. I much prefer the easily replaceable epdm cord that costs pennies to replace if needed. I dont want to call it an industry standard but its a very popular method for vacuum sealing. 

 

[me_two]

Here in Australia Festool quote 10 years for parts.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I think the parts availability thing is 10 years here in the US too, but I have no idea at what point that applies? Certainly that doesn't mean everything? There has to be some criteria, $$ amount or something?

 

[Cheese]

Festool's general policy is to have spare parts available for many years after a tool is discontinued, I'm unsure if that policy may be impacted by supply chain issues outside of Festool's control. That would be a question for Festool to answer.

However, current indications are that accessories will continue to be available.

I certainly hope you're right Shane... [unsure]

However, 2 examples come to mind.

All Surfix products have been discontinued except Festool still offers the outdoor oil applicator 498062 and the 5 liter container of outdoor oil 498069. However, the applicator sponges 498070 are no longer available so once you burn through the single sponge that came with the applicator you're toast.

When Festool obsoleted the bench stand for the HL 850 they also quit supplying the scale ring 715167 which allows you to adjust the depth of cut when the HL 850 is mounted in the stand. Without the ring the bench stand is almost worthless. It took me almost 2 years to locate the scale ring because I had misplaced/lost the original one.

 

[Vondawg]

Sounds like if you own a vac sys and are looking to sell it…you’ll have no problem…like a good used truck or house these days….