Vacuum Pump for VAC-SYS

[live4ever]

Bumping this up as I'm looking to pair either an Excel 1 or 5 with the clamping module.  [member=43117]Kriss[/member] - any update on how the smaller and quieter Excel 1 worked out?

My thoughts: the excel 1 was louder than I expected (louder than the Festool pump), but I have no complaints regarding its suction capacity. My setup has the pump inside a closet and I run a hose out to the VAC-SYS - so the noise becomes a non-issue.

I haven't seen an excel 5 to compare. I'm happy with my excel 1 so ultimately I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong with either pump!

Thanks [member=43117]Kriss[/member]!  Just out of curiosity, did you ever take a smartphone SPL meter (or real one) to it to see how it measured up to its advertised 45db?  I wonder if it's the pitch or if it specs higher. 

Haven't seen many vids from you lately.  Life getting in the way?  [tongue]

 

[rljatl]

How would the Festool pump work with vacuum bags?  Is it practical to get away with one pump for both Vac Sys and vacuum bag use?

Which of the three pumps would be best for both uses?

 

[tjbnwi]

How would the Festool work with vacuum bags?  Is it practical to get away with one pump for both Vac Sys and vacuum bag use?

Which of the three pumps would be best for both uses?

The Festool pump is a continuous duty pump. Works just fine for vacuum bags.

Yes.

Tom

 

[live4ever]

How would the Festool pump work with vacuum bags?  Is it practical to get away with one pump for both Vac Sys and vacuum bag use?

Which of the three pumps would be best for both uses?

The Festool is (I believe) a 2 cfm pump, which would be totally fine for moderate sized vac bagging.  If you wanted to do larger vac bagging, I think the Excel 5 would be better.  If you look at veneersupplies.com, they have a chart comparing their systems, including the two continuous duty ones (Excel 1 and 5).  The Excel 1 is a 1cfm and supposedly can handle 4x4 bags (for flat work) and 2x4 curved.  The Excel 5 with 5cfm can do 4x15 or 6x10 flat and 4x6 curved.  So I would guess the Festool pump would spec somewhere in middle...

 

[nachtschim]

Oke, just tuned-in on this topic....

I work for a comany named Becker. we are the inventor of the rotory vane vacuum pump.
I'm the head of service and technical matter within Belgium Netherlands and Luxembourg....
But enough about me!

the deeper the vacuum level, mbar, the stronger the grip. This is correct. But.....
all leakage will drain your vacuum so piping and hose connection are important.

I noticed the remark, that oil lubricated pumps blow out oil... than you are dowing it wrong!!! oil circulation speeds up when vacuum levels is boulding up. oil lubricated pumps need to work on max. vacuum level. when the max vacuum level is NOT reached oil circulation and pump effort increase. the internal oilcircualtion system is not build for draining maxx oilflow and starts blowing exessive oil.  because of the oil, all components get a almost zero clearance so almost absolute vacuum can be reached.-0mbar ab. or 1000mbar rel.  perfect for what you want.

the use of a softstarter or frequencyconverter protects your pump against the kick-in of electicity. this will damage your pump within a year.

oil free pumps, not so deep vacuum level but for your use oke. so much to choose from.
the deeper the vacuum level, the less flow. sow check for this!

for both pumps, make sure a vacuum savety valve is installed in, or externall with your pump.
when the max. vacuum is reached, flow almost stops. this means no more cooling of your pump internal.
vacuum pumps create hot exhaustair, dust in woodindustry, hot running pumps and poor maintenace, do i need to mention..... so a hot running pump because pulluted filtration lack of flow sawdust and so on, check it.

Filtration, put a pre filter between the vacuum connection and this will als save your pump.

maintenacen is crucial, replace your filters on time, keep bearings lubricated and check pump internaly. prefenting damage.....
Any further question, let me know.

money..... what ever you want just be save. invest in what you can affort. Goog luck!!!

 

[kelauben]

I've happened across a Robinair 15500 vacuum pump for a very good price.  It appears it would be a good pump for my own vac-sys creation being rated at 35 Micron.  If I do my conversions correctly this is well below the needed mBar.

Would anyone care to offer a comment on this pump in it's capacity to be used for both a vacuum clamp and vacuum press (not at the same time).

Thanks.

Karl

 

[Gregor]

I've happened across a Robinair 15500 vacuum pump for a very good price.  It appears it would be a good pump for my own vac-sys creation being rated at 35 Micron.  If I do my conversions correctly this is well below the needed mBar.

Would anyone care to offer a comment on this pump in it's capacity to be used for both a vacuum clamp and vacuum press (not at the same time).

The pump should do fine for both applications, as the end pressure is 3.5 orders of magnitude lower than the festool original pump it'll clamp 'harder' (as the pressure differential between the room and the suction cup is ~40% higher). For a vacuum press a vacuum reservoir (pressure vessel between pump and the valve to the press on which the pump can work prior to actually pressing) will speed up initial evacuation. Just put a separator infront of the intake that removes all solids (sawdust), a fine filter should do.

The 'change oil after each application' from the manual can most likely be ignored. Even should you let it run free for extended periods of time (which will pull in water vapor, from the air passing through, that condensates into the oil) you likely won't have a problem - end pressure will degrade but this is only relevant in case you do refrigeration (where you want best possible vacuum prior to filling coolant medium) - for your application it'll be good enough (even with non-new oil). As long as the oil dosn't foam it'll be fine, just exchange it once or twice a year.

 

[cpw]

I've decided to try some vacuum pressing with a bag connected to my VAC-SYS pump.  It sounds like 3/8" barb fittings would fit into a Festool hose, but maybe a touch tight. Does anyone knwo if the Festool quick connectors and clamp would properly make a seal with a 3/8" hose?  If so I'll probably try to purchase a replacement quick connect and clamp; 494574 and 479816 for about $53. 

Otherwise, I'll purchase an entire quick clamp and hose assembly for $110; because the Festool vaccum hose itself is $94 (vs. the $8 for 10' of 3/8" hose from VeneerSupplies.com).
https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-495293-vac-sys-5-meter-vacuum-hose.html

Thanks,
Charles

 

[Rich_]

I have just purchased the Vac Sys SE clamp but because they are now discontinued I am unable to get the vacuum pump.  I am therefore looking to find a suitable alternative vacuum pump.  I'm wondering if this would be a good option? https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/ec4-composites-vacuum-pump 
It also means I can use it with a degassing chamber for resin work. 
If the above pump is suitable I just need to work out how to connect it to the Vac Sys.  I found reference to the plug 474202 part which will fit into the Vac sys but not sure if it is a thread on the end or a barb or if the thread matches the pump above? The specs say: 1/4"G/BSPP Fitted with 8mm Hose Tail Barb.  I was hoping to use quick release fittings. 
I'm not that familiar with vacuum and compressor fittings so any help is gratefully received. Thank you.

 

[afish]

I converted an old Senco 4cfm air compressor I had laying around unused and taking up space to a vacuum pump and it has been working great for a couple years now.  Its a little loud but I have it plumbed into the shop and it sits in another shed so the noise isnt an issue and it cycles on and off so I know if I have a leak in the system. Plus when/if vacuum bagging it isnt running non stop. I do some epoxy stuff and like to leave it in the bag for several hours to overnight and dont want any pump constantly running.  I have tried many QA fittings and have found that the ones Joe woodworking sells are the best for vacuum.  Joe also claims that he has tested around 20 different connectors before finding these.  He also sells pumps and the excel 5 seems to be very well liked and recommended. If my Frankenstein pump ever fails I will probably buy the excel 5 to replace it.  Vacuum leaks are tricky and even a very small leak will cause the pump to cycle often since most people dont have 20-60 gallons of reserve like on a air compressor.  They are also hard to find.  I had one and ended up needing to hook the system to my compressor to find the leak which ended up being a bad glue joint on one of the pvc pipes. My pump stays on 24/7 and never cycles on/off unless Im using it and I have a lot more plumbing than most.     

 

[Rich_]

I've decided to order the vacuum pump but need to know what thread size the festool adapters use please?  I need to be able to adapt to 1/4"G/BSPP somehow.  If I can find out what thread size is on the Vac-Sys I can look for adapters.  Thank you.

 

[afish]

Sorry I dont use the vac sys either I just make my own vacuum pods. 

 

[Cheese]

Here's a previous discussion on fittings for the Vac-Sys.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...vac-pump-and-vacuum-bags/msg630022/#msg630022

 

[Rich_]

Thank you.  I had found a number of threads on the forum but that one I had not seen.  I spoke with Festool earlier and they confirmed it's the BE-25 Euro High Flow fitting that is needed so I've been and got one from Screwfix.  They also seem to be called XF Adapter.  The vacuum pump I am getting has a 1/4" G/BSPP parallel thread - would the adapter I got with a taper thread work in it if I use ptfe tape?  I can see from your link that the festool side needs parallel thread to seal against the washer but I am not trying to change that.

 

[abd]

Hi Rich, how did you get on with this? I too am in the UK and am in an almost identical situation as you (got the head unit but no vac pump). Appreciate finding out what fittings you got and from where.

Cheers
Andy

Thank you.  I had found a number of threads on the forum but that one I had not seen.  I spoke with Festool earlier and they confirmed it's the BE-25 Euro High Flow fitting that is needed so I've been and got one from Screwfix.  They also seem to be called XF Adapter.  The vacuum pump I am getting has a 1/4" G/BSPP parallel thread - would the adapter I got with a taper thread work in it if I use ptfe tape?  I can see from your link that the festool side needs parallel thread to seal against the washer but I am not trying to change that.