very high cool factor..........

monte said:
adding to the boarding list........

Starrett Dial Caliper & my Wixey Digital Angle Gauge.........

Monte:

Since the freight is on them, why not just have them drop off one of those huge air-freight containers at your place, and take EVERYTHING.  ;)

John
 
Dan Rush said:
All of the above mentioned candidates are qualified.  [snip] One is lobbying to go.

I'd like to look past the desire to please a person who desperately wants to go, and consider the examples of work that are posted on this thread.

Monte's ark and its preliminary models show enormous creative talent, mechanical knowledge, skill and work-ethic...but how would he have used the Jointmaker Pro to make it?  Same with the fireplace.  The large scale and bent lamination construction of both of those works means that they wouldn't be good projects for testing the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro.  As for the china cabinet, it's a very nice looking piece, one that I'd be proud to own, let alone make.  But conspicuously absent is any sign of intricate joinery that is the fundamental purpose of the Jointmaker Pro.

Michael, on the other hand, has done virtually zero self-promotion on this thread.  For that matter, he seldom mentions his work elsewhere on this forum.  To fully understand why the type of work he does would test the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro, you might have had to have seen some of the stuff he posted on the old FOG (back when it was a Yahoo! group).  No doubt Michael should tell us more about his work with photos and text, but just based on what he's posted in this thread, it's apparent that his work with miniatures is more germane to the Jointmaker Pro than Monte's work.

Monte, I hope there are no hard feelings--I'm humbled by the excellence of your work, but I just don't see it as being germane to the Jointmaker Pro.

Regards,

John
 
I placed an order for a Jointmaker Pro with John an hour after playing with it when he revealed it in Chicago a few weeks back.   While John had the introductory offer, it was the tool that convinced me it was a great deal.  He did an excellent job demoing it and then I cut several cuts with it as well.  As John mentioned, it comes with both a crosscut and a rip blade.  The things I liked were flexibility, repeatability, and precision.  I think you'll have to be mindful of the blade extending above the table, because the table moves very smoothly and i could see nipping a finger without a close eye.  But that's the case with any tool.  Except this one is quiet and encourages you to get close to the work.

I'm a hobbiest but my work ranges from cabinets to furniture to picture frames, toys, boxes, and gift items.  I think I'll find it becomes a staple to a lot of different projects.  If I was a professional, I'm sure it would pay off in the fine details that command higher prices.  Details that will be time consuming (and thus expensive) to achieve with other tools.

It's a great tool for small work as well as detail enhancements to large work.  It lives up to Bridge City quality and innovation.  In the hour I played with it, I could see it would make me a more confident woodworker.  I'll be doing some jewelry boxes this summer with my son when it arrives.  More when I get a chance to work with it.

Get your checkbooks out.  I'm sure Monte or whoever goes will see what I did.  And seek to find the funds to add it to shop.

neil
 
John Stevens said:
Michael, on the other hand, has done virtually zero self-promotion on this thread.  For that matter, he seldom mentions his work elsewhere on this forum.  To fully understand why the type of work he does would test the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro, you might have had to have seen some of the stuff he posted on the old FOG (back when it was a Yahoo! group).  No doubt Michael should tell us more about his work with photos and text...

Agreed.

Michael, could you give us a few more examples of what you do, and perhaps explain how you could use the Jointmaker Pro in your work? If you've done any reviews of equipment, then a pointer in their direction would be good. Sadly, the archives of the old Yahoo group are no longer available, so we can no longer read about your work there.

Forrest

 
John Stevens said:
Dan Rush said:
All of the above mentioned candidates are qualified.  [snip] One is lobbying to go.

I'd like to look past the desire to please a person who desperately wants to go, and consider the examples of work that are posted on this thread.

Monte's ark and its preliminary models show enormous creative talent, mechanical knowledge, skill and work-ethic...but how would he have used the Jointmaker Pro to make it?  Same with the fireplace.  The large scale and bent lamination construction of both of those works means that they wouldn't be good projects for testing the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro.  As for the china cabinet, it's a very nice looking piece, one that I'd be proud to own, let alone make.  But conspicuously absent is any sign of intricate joinery that is the fundamental purpose of the Jointmaker Pro.

Michael, on the other hand, has done virtually zero self-promotion on this thread.  For that matter, he seldom mentions his work elsewhere on this forum.  To fully understand why the type of work he does would test the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro, you might have had to have seen some of the stuff he posted on the old FOG (back when it was a Yahoo! group).  No doubt Michael should tell us more about his work with photos and text, but just based on what he's posted in this thread, it's apparent that his work with miniatures is more germane to the Jointmaker Pro than Monte's work.

Monte, I hope there are no hard feelings--I'm humbled by the excellence of your work, but I just don't see it as being germane to the Jointmaker Pro.

Regards,

John

I hope their not trying to sell this to people just wanting to make miniatures.  hmmmm, that would exclude about 99.9999% of the people that make anything.  I'd rather see how it can be used to do something other than cut really small stuff, really good.  I really think Nick's post about using the chop saw for the larger stuff and this saw for smaller triangles, etc. and the added safety and quality is a great thing.  I'd also like to see expanded coverage of how it can be used to accurately and quickly cut custom dovetails as is covered lightly in their video.  I welcome some practical applications that fit a larger percentage of woodworkers, maybe not over 50%, but not 1% either.

Chris...     
 
BTW Per, loved the link on your site to the Bill O'reilly rant.  :o  I saw it the other day for the first time and laughed my rear off.  Sounds like he could take an anger management class or two...
 
Chris Mercado said:
I'd also like to see expanded coverage of how it can be used to accurately and quickly cut custom dovetails as is covered lightly in their video.

And bridle joints, through-tenons with chamfered ends, wedged tenons (and wedges for the tenons!), etc.  At the risk of eating my own words, I don't think that's Michael's area of expertise, either. 

Bueller?  Anyone?  ???

Regards,

John
 
John Stevens said:
Dan Rush said:
All of the above mentioned candidates are qualified.  [snip] One is lobbying to go.

I'd like to look past the desire to please a person who desperately wants to go, and consider the examples of work that are posted on this thread.

Monte, I hope there are no hard feelings--I'm humbled by the excellence of your work, but I just don't see it as being germane to the Jointmaker Pro.

Regards,

John

John, Monte started the thread and we would not be talking about any trip if not for him. His desire is germane to the jointmaker pro REVEIW. A guy that wants something bad will do it to the best of his ability and better than the guy with just a passing interest. Its not a disire to please a person, it is the desire to get the best review of the most deserving person in this particular instance and to me its monte. He is is not desperate to go, but hungry for the experince. His hunger is because he can use that jointmaker pro for his work or he would not have even started the thread. The more hungry the better, to me.

Nickao
 
I don't like this waiting for results. When we vote for a politician we see the results as they come in. In a boxing match or sporting event we see the score as it is played.

Just my opinion.

Nickao
 
I just read through the thread quickly and one thing is clear, Monte has posted even more very appealing pictures.

One thing that is not clear is whether the choice of who goes to Portland is still open.

Whether it is or not this thread has made another thing clear to me, there are a lot of very talented and (I'm sure) equally interesting people on this forum and we really don't know one another. With that in mind I wrote a belated introduction. I've been associated with a lot of you guys for (4?) years and rarely bothered to say anything about myself. So, this is me, I don't think it will sway anyone's opinion on who should go to Portland so just read it when you get a chance and write one of your own so we don't have to wonder who you are.

It's just text now. I plan to populate it with pictures.

John Economaki is looking for "someone who designs their own work, someone who can recognize the non-obvious possibilities of a new tool and articulate them". My take on this is to emphasize the diversity in my background, inspired by Per letting me in on some of his early adventures, and also by Tinker?s tales.

Who am I? And, "Why is your gallery full of weird stuff?"

What have I done? And, "You made that?"

I'm a guy who would rather be poor than bored so I work freelance in the film and commercial business making props, models, and rigs. Old school stuff, I'd make a lot more money if computers were still as slow and expensive as they were when I started.

I'm a guy who can see things others can't, as in attention to detail. Probably comes from years of overcompensation trying to get by without the eyeglasses I was supposed to wear as a kid.

I'm a guy who asks questions and notices things like (from pre-kindergarten) "Why isn't Santa Claus in the Bible?" And, "You're never 'not doing anything'". Question authority is my slogan. Never say, "trust me" to me.

In college I chose to major in art because I could draw well. It was a good thing I did because I would have flunked out that first year without the A's in art classes. I heard that there was a BFA program where they took you more seriously than the BA students so I put up a display of my drawings to get in. Most of the teachers simply gave their approval but one of them said, "You've got talent but you obviously know nothing about art". I was thunderstruck and angry but he was right. I knew so little about art that I didn't even know I knew nothing. But that was great motivation and in a few years I was the first art student to ever be nominated for a university wide academic fellowship. I didn't get that but did get a BFA in drawing and photography and went on to get an MFA in photography and sculpture.

An aside about photography. I thought it would be good to have photographs to assist in life studies for drawing and painting so I decided to go get a camera from wherever they made them. I've always been interested in the East more than Europe so I went to Tokyo and bought a Nikomat with a 55 Micro and a 28. Okay, I didn't just jump up and go exactly, and I wasn't rich, it only cost $115 round trip because my father was working under contract for Pan Am designing portable missile launching systems for the Army. He had been designing launch pads for NASA but after the guys walked on the Moon they told him "Thanks for your help and don't let the door hit you on the way out". I turned 20 in Tokyo and had my first legal beer, a Kirin. Actually I don't know if it was legal but they didn't card me.

As I was finishing my MFA I was advised to try to get accepted into the Whitney Museum's Independent Study Program. I did, was, and moved to NYC.
Moving my stuff to NY was my introduction to woodworking. I had to move it in my pickup truck so I needed a cover for the bed. I realized that at roof height it wouldn?t be large enough to hold all the necessary stuff my sweetie and I would need to move so I designed and built a telescoping cover so I could bring it back down to parking garage height when unloaded. While chopping out a recess for another piece to fit into my friend (a carpenter) said, you can't chop mortises with a screwdriver?. At that point I not only didn't have the proper tools I didn't even know I was making a mortise, but I finished the job with the screwdriver before he got back with the chisel.

The Whitney ISP was a great means for a southern boy to make NY home and I got to meet a bunch of really talented people. The best part of the program  was the visiting artist's lecture series, and of those the most impressive was Susan Sontag. I decided to stay in New York but I could only find the right ratio of space/cost/safety and other amenities on Staten Island.

I worked in a commercial art gallery for a year and discovered the real art world was way different than the way it appeared from the ivory tower and decided I did not want to be involved with it. Serendipitously I came to work for a crazy rich guy who was starting a nonprofit art foundation and wanted to create a place for art that did match my ideal. He thought every deserving artist should have a museum dedicated to his work. He was the dreamer and I became the one of the doers. That was a very heady time! At one point the foundation was spending a million dollars a month acquiring art, land, and building museums.

Prior to starting the foundation my boss had been operating commercial galleries for years but the last artist to exhibit in his NYC space had filled the entire gallery with 2 feet of dirt and they liked it so much they decide to leave it. Still there more than 30 years later. But, early on they discovered a problem. The artist didn't like it when the dirt dried out so he had it watered regularly with predictable consequences. It became my job to figure out how to keep the walls from rotting.
earthroom-top.jpg

That process taught me a lesson, that what I really liked about making art was the problem solving process. I wasn't really into self expression and I didn't need to do it. I just needed to avoid boredom and that was easy at the foundation. In the midst of installing 500 two meter long, two inch diameter solid brass bars in a gallery the 3 Mile Island nuclear power plant started to meltdown. I mention it to set the time frame and because by then my father had transitioned into designing piping systems for nuclear power plants (not that one).
brokenkilometer-top.jpg

Avoiding boredom was no problem at the foundation as long as the money held out. I set up three successive woodworking shops and two photography studios and designed and built a climate controlled storage facility (within a warehouse). When the money slowed down I avoided boredom by buying an abandoned house for $10,000 cash from the VA. It was worth every penny (imagine chartreuse indoor/outdoor carpet tiles stuck to the cracked plaster bedroom ceiling) so I immediately embarked on a gut rehab including all the utilities. Set up my own shop on the ground floor around an old Walker Turner table saw. Shortly after that was squared away I read about John Economaki testing a Paralock fence on a Walker Turner saw and bought one. Between doing carpentry for my house and cabinet making and picture framing for the foundation I managed to accumulate a good set of woodworking skills.

One special woodworking experience came after my boss had become very interested in Sufism. He had sponsored a troupe of whirling dervishes to visit the US and after that wanted to convert one of the foundation's spaces into a mosque. He brought a couple of carpenters over from a museum in Istanbul and I was assigned to reconfigure the shop for them and get whatever machines they wanted and find the wood they needed to build the mihr?b and minbar. These guys were the most awesome woodworkers I've ever seen. Working without plans and using a single metric folding ruler they broke in two so they could share, they built two beautiful and elaborate structures out of mahogany, padouk, and ebony. When molding was being installed with finishing nails a visitor (awestruck at the quality of the work) asked why he was using an ordinary mail in stead of a dowel. The carpenter held up a nail and said "steel dowel".

While learning how to restore my house was plenty interesting things became increasing less so at work as the foundation settled into maturity program-wise and my tasks began to seem more routine. To combat that I started commuting on a bicycle (exciting in NYC) while I considered some other line of honest work. While riding I would often see film productions set up on the streets and one week I kept riding past work being done on a truck featured in the movie FX. The plot involved a guy who made special effects for films and he was deploying effects from his truck as he was pursed by the bad guys. Every day real special effects guys were rigging the truck for shooting and I realized I would never be satisfied working in any single craft.

Again serendipitously, within a year, without any effort on my part I was rigging models to move (by no apparent means) for a Bud Bowl half-time event. I started as a model maker and continue to make them but rigging was more interesting and allowed me to work on some interesting movies. "Star Trek V" was a pretty bad movie but it was fun to do miniature special effects when miniature in relation to the Starship Enterprise meant doing healthy sized stuff. I built a Starship landing bay 12 feet by 24 feet in which to crash land the Shuttle Craft. Then lucked into having my design for the model launcher chosen and built a 20 foot long slingshot rail using three industrial sized garage door springs and a 2 ton winch. The model of the Shuttle was 5 feet long and weighed 80 pounds after reinforcing.

I got to crash a space ship again on "Judge Dredd". This time I designed and built a 250 gallon 250 psi rated air canon with a 10" butterfly valve actuated by a 3" pneumatic cylinder controlled by a programable timer. The butterfly valve delivered air into a machined 8? pipe that sleeved into an aluminum tube built into the model. We had to add about 500 pounds to the model to overwhelm it's unfortunate aerodynamic tendencies.

On "Eraser" I designed and built a pyro proof scale model (six feet long) of a jet engine for the "throw the chair into the engine so it catches on fire" scene. Then I assembled a portable wind tunnel built around a 440 cubic inch V8 airboat motor brought up from Florida.

I learned the most from working on the ride film version (at Universal Studios theme parks) of "Back to the Future". On that project I got to work in the machine and welding shops for nearly 6 months while a mechanical T-rex was being engineered and built. My main contribution was figuring out how to get three axis of motion out of a single linear actuator so glacier calving looked more realistic.

I've made a variety of models for commercials, from a Burger King restaurant to the Great Pyramid of Cheops to the St. Louis Arch, as well as and a giant ice cream cone and lots of early 20th century NYC style buildings. Making a five foot diameter good old fashioned style flying saucer was a nice woodworking challenge. As Mirko has pointed out, it's hard to find time to document stuff when you're on an impossible deadline.

But computers continued to get faster and cheaper so the need for that kind of model making and rigging fell way off. Those 500 brass rods I'd installed in '79? where/are still there but about ten years ago a fire in the same building sent tons of water across the floor and the boards warped. The rods had to be removed for the floor to be replaced and when it was done I was hired to reinstall them. I met the artist again and we discussed how computer aided pre-visualization could help him evolve his projects which was again serendipitous because right after I finished the installation I herniated a disk and all I could do without pain was sit so I started doing CAD for the artist and as I recovered became production manager for several projects including the one posted above on page 3.
Seen_Unseen.jpg

erez

RealUp.jpg


The photos I've posted above not my art work though a lot of my thought and hand work went into the production of these sculptures.

GGL.jpg


GGR.jpg


Through recommendations I've done custom cabinetry and built-in stuff and continue to put the finishing touches on my house. Surprisingly the model making work has picked up again, maybe there is a retro thing going on.

There are a lot of interesting people on this forum but we know very little about any of them, except Tinker. If you read this far please consider writing up your own story and posting it for us to read.
 
nickao said:
I don't like this waiting for results. When we vote for a politician we see the results as they come in.........

Nickao

I don't like the idea of knowing the results before the voting is closed, it can influence the voting.
 
We are at a 180 on this one Brice. Exactly the reason I do not like it.

If someone is slipping they can post more photo's or make a post to change people minds.
Why shouldn't one be able to change the results with more pertinent information.

I can tell you I have changed my mind on many polls after reading other people views.
In this format it kind of stops the conversation and makes it  seem as this is the end if it, when it is not over until its over.
Which is tomorrow at 6:00. Not right now.

Oh well we can not agree on everything Brice.

I think you should have the option to change your vote too. Michael just made a nice long post and someone may want to change their vote. This is an ongoing discussion and this has stopped the discussion in its track before the deadline, at least for the people that voted. But I still see people lobbying to go, so something is wrong here. Maybe all lobbying should have been stopped when the vote started if the vote is going to be non changeable and the results not seen as the votes are made.

If people are allowed to still make their case than show the results and make the votes changeable. I think this is correct for any poll, not just this one. If the poll vote is not changeable and we do not see the results all lobbying should have to be stopped, or lobbying should have had a deadline.

Nickao
 
Can you change your vote when you vote for a politician? ;D

I know, lets bus in some illegals to vote. :D :D I mean guests. ;D
 
I live in the Chicago where even dead people have voted for years. ;D

Seriously, once the voting in the state starts the politicians are done and can not campaign while we are actually voting. Thats what I am saying, If we can not change our vote, the lobbying and reasons for people to go on the trip should be stopped at that point. If we can still lobby for our favorites the voting should be open and changeable, in my opinion.

Michael made some great points after a bunch of people voted, now they have new info and should be able to act or not on that info.

I am just trying to help establish a set of rules for polls throughout the forum that make sense and are fair. Sometimes the vote is open, sometimes not, sometimes the numbers show sometimes they don't. Should there be reasons for each or should the poller just do what ever they want?

I really do not care. I prefer order and uniformity thats all, especially when a trip like this is involved and for the more important issues.

Clearly established, agreed upon and fair rules are worth talking about to keep the forum from possible friction. This is the first time a thing like this has come up so I am just putting this out there for next time. John jumped in this forum because it is a good forum. I am only trying to keep it good or make it better.

Nick
 
nickao said:
Michael made some great points after a bunch of people voted, now they have new info and should be able to act or not on that info.

Nick

I don't know what points you mean Nick.

All I posted was a bio story and it is my fault that I posted it late. Or, maybe the poll started early.
But in reading through the thread it looks like a decision was about to be made peremptorily and Per made a poll to slow that down.

The only point I can think of is that it might be good for the person going to Portland to have a broad background. For all I know Monte is as broadly experienced as I am. We just don't know because we don't know that much about one another. That's my real point. From what I can tell, Monte is my kind of guy and I can't wait to know how he got where he is.

It's unfortunate if new information makes people want to change their vote but you gotta have rules.

 
I think I hit a limit in adding pics to one post so I'll add a few to this.
This is not about influencing the poll since most people interested in that have already voted.

Some of the work I did on these sculptures required some interesting jigs which I'll try to post later when downsized. These images are in the gallery so are easy to quickly post here.

345Base.jpg


BaseDetail.jpg
 
John Stevens said:
Dan Rush said:
All of the above mentioned candidates are qualified.  [snip] One is lobbying to go.

I'd like to look past the desire to please a person who desperately wants to go, and consider the examples of work that are posted on this thread.

Monte's ark and its preliminary models show enormous creative talent, mechanical knowledge, skill and work-ethic...but how would he have used the Jointmaker Pro to make it?  Same with the fireplace.  The large scale and bent lamination construction of both of those works means that they wouldn't be good projects for testing the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro.  As for the china cabinet, it's a very nice looking piece, one that I'd be proud to own, let alone make.  But conspicuously absent is any sign of intricate joinery that is the fundamental purpose of the Jointmaker Pro.

Michael, on the other hand, has done virtually zero self-promotion on this thread.  For that matter, he seldom mentions his work elsewhere on this forum.  To fully understand why the type of work he does would test the capabilities of the Jointmaker Pro, you might have had to have seen some of the stuff he posted on the old FOG (back when it was a Yahoo! group).  No doubt Michael should tell us more about his work with photos and text, but just based on what he's posted in this thread, it's apparent that his work with miniatures is more germane to the Jointmaker Pro than Monte's work.

Monte, I hope there are no hard feelings--I'm humbled by the excellence of your work, but I just don't see it as being germane to the Jointmaker Pro.

Regards,

John

Towards the "Art & Science of Cutting Wood"


Dear John,

No hard feelings, really, but I really don't see it in the same light.

Allow me to explain..

In the fabrication of the Ark doors and side panels, the laminated two inch curved frames are based on a 60 inch radius.
The laminations themselves are based on  1/16 inch finished strips which were re-sawed and then drumsanded before
being cut down to their respective lengths. The width of these strips were generally 2 inches  and from 4 to 8 inches.

The scroll holders inside were made from one inch plexi and Spanish Cedar (both solid and laminated strips)
The vertical Spanish Cedar elements on both top and bottom were cut on a slight curve.
Requiring the making of a jig to get it just right.

I have in my studio an Inca 2200 cabinet saw, an Inca 259 table saw, a TS55 and a
TS75 (I won't list my hand saws)....what I ended up using and I could squarely look at
you in the eye and say what built half the Ark project was my Brynes Table Saw.
(http://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/tablesaw.html?id_mm=0520MM038242)
It's a marvelous little machine, but for this project the Jointmaster Pro would have made
life a lot easier and quicker. 
(Believe me I'll go into great detail once this gets moved over to the projects forum.)

As to the self promotion, let's see up until this Jointmaster Pro review thing came up not
one soul on this forum had a clue as to the level of craftsmanship I had behind me.
This selection had to be decided within a very short time period, what's a guy to do?
I had to reveal myself in a small window.

"desperately wanting to go?" hmm not quite.
Strong desire? Yes.... to quote Nick, yes I'm "hungry" for the the potential of  the exploration.
To try and push the boundaries of that saw to the best of my abilities.

hmmm, "conspicuously absent is any sign of intricate joinery"

Am I a freehand dovetail joinery expert, no...but I could do a decent job. Yes, I do
want to bring my joinery up several notches. That was a reason I just recently bought
Glen Drakes, Wild West Joinery Saw.
(http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/GlenDrake+Wild+West+Joinery+SawNew+Idea+In+Sawing.aspx)
....it blew my mind when I read about it. It just made sense, it broke boundaries.
And my expectation is the same for the Jointmaster Pro.

.......in a general response to the "intricate" part I built very complicated architectural models for several years
before I opened up my own studio. That spells "intricate" in 3 dimension.
After I did open my studio, I decided to go towards a more "sculptual" body of work.
That doesn't mean I don't know how to do intricate.

ok, I feel better now,
needed to get that off my chest.

Monte

 
Hey that wild west saw is cool!

Are you happy with it? Have you has a chance to use it?

Nick
 
The Byrnes saw is nice too for only 440.00?  am thinking f getting the Byrnes saw right away. Any suggestions on the blades or anything?
 
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