Walko Workbench DRAW sign up (ON HOLD)

[Matthew Schenker]

hm - maybe i'm naive but why on earth should anyone want to take it out on the one who wanted to donate a very impressive, expensive and attractive gift or the one that offered to deal with the paying of the agreed 'draw-fee' ?

I don't think there is a reason to take anything out on anybody here.  All parties in this situation acted with generosity, a willingness to connect, and a desire to make sure there are no problems.

As the person who runs this forum, I do have to be careful about possible legal issues.  That's where my concern came from.  The problem is, I was not involved in the early planning and implementation of this and so I did not know about any legal issues until this was already well underway.

There is nothing regulating the internet at all, period. Not yet.

Actually, there are.  And some things that happen from the Internet can be quite serious.

This was ruined by the moderator he stopped this on hearsay giving us no solid concrete reason why. He wants proof he can not be hurt well that is impossible
....
And yes I have an attitude and i am pissed and think I should be at this point. This has been in limbo long enough and Matthew should never had lest us start in the first place if he was going to stop it.

I've said many times that I am in no way against generous efforts by members of the forum.  I appreciate such things, and have always supported it.  In fact, that's what this forum is about in many ways.  The "limbo" in this particular situation is no one's fault.  It's just one of those unfortunate things.

I really could not have prevented you from starting in the first place because I did not know it was happening until it was announced.

All Henrik and I were doing was something nice and now I have to feel aggravated over it? That is why many people never get involved in these things I guess. If you do not feel I should have an attitude at this point that is on you, not me. So please do not tell me settle down etc. I know exactly what I am saying and am very calm and have held my thoughts on this long enough.

It's not worth getting upset about.  Again, it's just an honest situation that went off the tracks.

My suggestion would be to come up with another idea for the forum that works a different way, and put your generosity into that instead.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[peter halle]

I have sent an idea for consideration.

 

[robtonya]

Nick, don't refund my money either. I'm sorry this didn't work out. Henrick, you are a hell of a guy just to offer this, as with the other nominations for prizes too. I highly doubt there is any legal issues with this, and maybe we should move it to a different forum, or area. Hell, I'd put the names in a hat, and draw. Then contact the winner (not using this forum either), either by phone, or email. Then Matt wouldn't have anything to do with it at all. Then he can just wash his hands of the whole deal, of coarse he wouldn't need to be the beneficiary of the left over funds either.

 

[peter halle]

Robert,

Not so fast yet....  We'll see.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Nick, don't refund my money either. I'm sorry this didn't work out. Henrick, you are a hell of a guy just to offer this, as with the other nominations for prizes too. I highly doubt there is any legal issues with this, and maybe we should move it to a different forum, or area. Hell, I'd put the names in a hat, and draw. Then contact the winner (not using this forum either), either by phone, or email. Then Matt wouldn't have anything to do with it at all. Then he can just wash his hands of the whole deal, of coarse he wouldn't need to be the beneficiary of the left over funds either.

I agree that Nick and Henrik were great to do this.  I want to make sure no one misunderstands that.  However, I heard from a reliable source that there might be legal issues here, and I need to be careful.

I'm not sure I understand your suggestion that "we should move it to a different forum."  If there are legal issues, they would be present in that other forum as well.

I'm not trying to "wash my hands of the whole deal."  I'm trying to figure out if it is an OK thing to do for this forum.

Regarding your comment that "he wouldn't need to be the beneficiary of the left over funds either," I appreciate every show of support that comes from members.  But if members wish to support the forum, they can do it directly, without a lottery or draw.

Again, I am not against the idea of members putting together an interesting effort like this.  I'm all for supportive, connecting efforts, and I always have been.  This is more about a technical issue that we may all be equally unhappy with.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[nickao]

The idea of changing forums altogether is because obviously some of us just do not agree that there are any legal ramifications.

I tend to believe my attorney over your unnamed source without any clear cut reasons or scenarios as to why it is illegal and what entity would or could approach us on this. If I thought it was worth it I would pay my attorney to speak to you on the phone, but at this point his advice is free and I am going to keep it that way.

For all I know your butcher said this to you.  Unless it is a business attorney dealing with internet companies like mine it really is not telling us anything at all Matthew.

And I did not take a dime until hearing you approve, say whatever you want that is the case. Henrik clearly stated he stated he wanted to do this on the forum for the guys here on this forum.

I say again since this is all documented isn't the damage done already?

I am trying to find a post I made based on a message I sent stating I would do this if Matthew approved, for some reason I can not find it.

My daughter is all over me becasue she fears returning 50 people's money may not look good to Google and may make it seem as though we are an unreliable company. I never thought of that and once you were on board I never thought it would ever be an issue. I guess nice guys finish last.

I may just have to cut 50 money orders to everyone as my daughter may have a point, I do not want even the appearance that I am a scam artist at google. I hope this is not a problem for anyone.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Well, before money is returned lets explore all the options. We could move this to a private drawing with the FOG completely uninvolved. If in the end money is donated to the forum that's great.

 

[nickao]

It's up to Henrik and I have no idea how he feels about that. Whatever he decides I will abide with no problem.

I have a few expensive inlays laying around. If anyone wants one of those as a prize I would put one up.

Everyone will get their money back if it comes to canceling though, so no worries there.

 

[tallgrass]

great.................defeated by virtual lawyers. maddening.

 

[peter halle]

Patience Grashoppers...

 

[Tinker]

This has, I am sure, a happy ending somewhere along the way.  Nick, calm down already.  I am sure there is a way around all of this.  your attorney is probably right on some level.  I do not doubt your word that you have gotten good advice.  I am also sure the Matthew has gotten good advice.  Peter H. is evidently conferring with Matthew (and possibly others) to come up with a solution by searching other directions.  Brice, once more, should be listened to.  Henrik is now tunneling between neighbors houses.  i suspect he is actually constructing an escape route  8).  Henrik, you might put the Walko to good use for shoring up the ceiling as you tunnel.

As justification to Matthew's position, have not many of us read in the past about agencies such as town governments as well as IRS clamping their hooks against children who were trying t operate a lemonade stand.  It has happened.  Matthew is operating something a lot more complicated than a children's lemonade stand with possibility of greater repercussions. I have no idea or comprehension of internet laws and my understanding of tax laws is limited to how they relate to my own business. In my experience, that amounts to several instances whereby the IRS thought i might have been slightly shaded in my assumptions and calculations.  With close auditing, it was decided (each and every time) that I had indeed been stupid in some way.  They ended up returning the overpayments I had made>>> every time.  They even paid interest but no penalties. That can work the other way around as some of my self employed friends could very well attest.

Right now, I think that Peter is trying to work something out.  from his previous outline, even if he does not work something out, I can honestly say that if i ever should run into a tax problem where i might need a good attorney, i would definitely want him in my corner, member of the bar or not. 

Back to Henrik:  Hey old buddy, let us know the minute you get out of your tunnel.  i for one, would hate to think you are buried.
Tinker

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
While I understand Nick's frustration in seeing this run into problems, try to understand my position here as well.  It was not an easy thing for me to intervene.  The idea and the intention are great, but we need to be patient right now to figure this out.  I'd rather it not become an administrative headache or an excuse to criticize anyone.

For all I know your butcher said this to you.  Unless it is a business attorney dealing with internet companies like mine it really is not telling us anything at all Matthew.

My "advisor" in this case is a corporate lawyer, as reported by a trustworthy connection.

And I did not take a dime until hearing you approve, say whatever you want that is the case.
...
I am trying to find a post I made based on a message I sent stating I would do this if Matthew approved, for some reason I can not find it.

I never "approved" of the idea, Nick.  As I've said in the discussion itself, the drawing got under way without my involvement and I did not even know the precise details until well into it, when I was contacted by my "advisor."

My daughter is all over me becasue she fears returning 50 people's money may not look good to Google and may make it seem as though we are an unreliable company. I never thought of that and once you were on board I never thought it would ever be an issue. I guess nice guys finish last.

I may just have to cut 50 money orders to everyone as my daughter may have a point, I do not want even the appearance that I am a scam artist at google. I hope this is not a problem for anyone.

I don't think anyone would see you as a scam artist, since any returned money would not come with a complaint.  Also, this is on hold, not necessarily ceased.  And yes, unfortunately in life being nice can sometimes put you in last place!

My suggestion is to just put this on hold until we can get better information.  Based on what I have heard, and also what a couple of other members have reported, there really are potential legal issues here.  We just need to make sure we know for sure how to run this before we move on.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[peter halle]

Tinker,

Thank you for kind words and patience.  You are correct that there may be something in the works.

The pot is on the stove and it is simmering.

Peter

 

[Tinker]

You are correct that there may be something in the works.

The pot is on the stove and it is simmering.

Peter

just let us know before it boils over
Tinker

 

[bijeshj]

My daughter is all over me becasue she fears returning 50 people's money may not look good to Google and may make it seem as though we are an unreliable company. I never thought of that and once you were on board I never thought it would ever be an issue. I guess nice guys finish last.

I may just have to cut 50 money orders to everyone as my daughter may have a point, I do not want even the appearance that I am a scam artist at google. I hope this is not a problem for anyone.

Hi, your offer to help with this drawing was generous and you should not have to worry about this. If this will eventually be canceled, you do not have to refund or send me a money order. You can donate the money to any charity.

Regards
Bijesh

 

[robtonya]

Nick, put my money down on one of your medalions, don't refund it. When I am ready to get one, I will have ten dollars already on it.  ;D  ;D

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Nick,
  Why don't we move the drawing off the FOG to Majestic Medalions? Deleat the thread here and leave a link directing people that contributed to your site.
Mike

 

[wnagle]

Excellent Idea mike!!!

 

[nickao]

Nick,
  Why don't we move the drawing off the FOG to Majestic Medalions? Deleat the thread here and leave a link directing people that contributed to your site.
Mike

The entire premise from Henrik's point of view was to have it on this forum, that was the point, otherwise he could have just given it to a neighbor. I guess I could set up a forum, but really I do not have time for that, though I do have the servers that could make it happen fast.

 

[butzla]

Nick, don't set up a new forum:  close entries now and do it right from your website, no?