Warranty issues using DD / non-Festool vac

FinishingCanuck said:
I just requested the kit. I will update when it comes and if it works
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The kit works for me every day and I use my CT22 as a shop vac as well as hooked up to my Festool Domino, Sanders (5 ea) and to my Leigh Dovetail jig.

Good luck,

Jack
 
Ok this thread is making my head hurt...  I need something clarified. I just purchased a ts75 and an MFT3. I dont have the money for the vac system right now. Is there an issue with buying a hose or adaptor to hook my craftsman shop vac up to the ts75?  I havent even unboxed anything yet so I still have time to return it all if I am going to run into problems. This is way too much money to have to worry about static electricity ruining it.  Thanks
 
I received the UDD upgrade kit in the mail today. I filled out their online request form on dec 13. I'd say that's pretty darn good considering the holidays, it was free and I didn't even provide them with a receipt. I'm very happy with their service and product. I recommend this to anyone interested in the dust deputy
 
Tom - no worries on using a Craftsman vac with your Festool saw. I used and sometimes still use a  Rigid vac with my tracksaw without any worries. The issue/ potential issue is with a Festool vac and some form of cyclone between these tools. I forgot to mention I used a Dustright Vortex between my track saw and Rigid vac without any issues. I don't use the Vortex when running my CT36.

Rod
 
In all fairness as previously posted this thread has been about damage to the CT's presumably caused by static electricity when used in combination with the Ultimate Dust Deputy - not about tools like the TS-75 being damaged.  That being said, the warranty statement from Festool that Shane posted early in the thread does not differentiate between CT's and other tools.  So, if your tool is damaged (as you ask) by static electricity while using a non Festool product hooked up to it then there is a real chance that the damage would not be covered by the Festool warranty. 

That might seem extreme or unusual to some but it is normal for manufacturers to have exclusions.  They have to.  If I hook up a battery charger to my wife's car incorrectly and do damage I assure you that the damage will not be covered by her GM warranty.

Not trying to be an alarmist, I personally would take the risk and do what you are prescribing to do, but there is a risk.

Peter
 
Well if it is the CT dust collector that is getting toasted I guess I wont worry about saving my pennies to go buy one... As far as festool not differentiating between the CT and other tools it really makes me wonder....Never was I told before purchasing, nor anywhere in the manual that I can see, does it state you can only use festool brand dust collection with their tools. If that were the case I surely would have second thought the purchase. If there truly is a real issue here, festool needs to man up and fix the problem. To steal your GM comparison, the ignition switches were not designed as hangers for big wads of keys but none the less they were aware of the problem, and thus responsible for it. To acknowledge a problem and not address that problem in a constructive way is no way to do business.
 
I think that this last post misses the point. No manufacturer can cover every possible use of their tools in any warranty statement otherwise it would be 100s of pages long. "...and owners of the TS75 cannot throw their tools off the top of a cliff or use it under water."

Festool have made an honest statement, on this forum as a result of a query from a FOGger, that they do not recommend that a DD be used with their CTs and will not cover static discharge damage. That is perfectly reasonable.

I use a DD connected to my CT and I take the risk. I know that the risk is my responsibility as I have read Festool's statements here on the FOG.

Peter
 
No Im honestly not missing the point. The tools are equipped for dust collection. (Officially) The retailer nor the manufacturer have said that only festool brand dust collection can be used. If I hadn't stumbled across this thread online how would I or anyone else know of such limitations? The point I think that is being missed is that festool has a problem with their product and is failing to address that problem. I dont think any customer would find it reasonable to use their tool under water, but I do think most everyone would find it reasonable to use aftermarket dust collection with a tool  equipped for dust collection, unless warned not to do so by the manufacturer up front. A post on a message board is certainly not adequate.
 
Loads of people are using non Festool extractors with their Festool tools - I use one of my Numatics with my TS55 and I don't think that anyone has an issue with that. The problem comes with the plastic cyclone extractors, perhaps like the Dust Deputy, that may make static build up more likely. These cyclones are not extractors, they are interceptors that fit between the tool and the extractor. They do not have the continuous earthing that Festool extractors and hoses have built-in which is a weakness.

Peter
 
I believe Peter's posting has caused some misunderstanding in this discussion. First off, Shane's warranty comment did not state that using aftermarket accessories or tools would void a warranty. It simply stated that if those accessories were the cause of damage, then the repair may not be covered by warranty. This is typical for any warranty.

Separately, there is also some confusion about static. Static in itself isn't causing damage, and there is little risk to the tool itself. Using non-antistatic components doesn't necessarily pose any problems. The unique issue with the Dust Deputy is that it was placing a non-conductive break in an otherwise conductive path. If the entire path were non-conductive (non-antistatic) then it wouldn't be an issue. It is this break in an otherwise conductive system that poses the risk because it can result in a sudden discharge across the DD body, which is conductively connected to the vacuum. This discharge goes toward the vacuum, not toward the tool.
 
Rick Christopherson said:
Peter Parfitt said:
[thanks] Rick

Peter
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Oops. It didn't even dawn on me that there were two Peters posting. I was addressing Peter Halle's warranty comments a little farther above.
Click to expand...

I guessed it was not me hence the light hearted way I took it.

Happy New Year.

Peter
 
The current model of the UDD has a conductive cyclone and as far as I know all conductive connections, hoses, etc.  The original UDD I purchased had the plastic cyclone and hoses that were non-conductive but, Oneida has replaced all of those parts free of charge with conductive parts.  I have had my CT22 since the first Domino joiner hit the market and I have had no problems using the UDD with it (at my own risk).  I sure like the convenience of having a large collector box between my tools and my CT22 dust bag which hasn't been changed in two years.  I would like to give credit to Oneida Air Systems for quickly acting to fix any actual or perceived static discharge issues quickly and upgrading existing customers with upgrade kits free of charge.

Jack
 
When I'm winding the operating table up to the ceiling and opening the dome in the thunderstorm so the life-giving lightning can lick around the body on the table, the Master keeps me chained to the floor of the laboratory. I believe this is so that static in the air can drain to ground through me, keeping us all safe. The Master calls it a grounding strap.

Would I be better off with an insulated chain instead?
 
Mr Heavy said:
When I'm winding the operating table up to the ceiling and opening the dome in the thunderstorm so the life-giving lightning can lick around the body on the table, the Master keeps me chained to the floor of the laboratory. I believe this is so that static in the air can drain to ground through me, keeping us all safe. The Master calls it a grounding strap.

Would I be better off with an insulated chain instead?
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And what about a ball gag like in the scene from the Tarantino movie?
 
Use the DD with your vacuum if you want. Plenty of others do and if it fails there is no reason to even mention it. I'll equate to putting different rims and tires on your car.
 
Rick Christopherson said:
Separately, there is also some confusion about static. Static in itself isn't causing damage, and there is little risk to the tool itself. Using non-antistatic components doesn't necessarily pose any problems. The unique issue with the Dust Deputy is that it was placing a non-conductive break in an otherwise conductive path. If the entire path were non-conductive (non-antistatic) then it wouldn't be an issue. It is this break in an otherwise conductive system that poses the risk because it can result in a sudden discharge across the DD body, which is conductively connected to the vacuum. This discharge goes toward the vacuum, not toward the tool.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting Rick

I was examining my AS hose and AS hose connectors the other day with a view to extending them over a boom Arm and looking to ensure the entire path back to the CT Midi would be conductive. When I placed a continuity meter over the AS hose and fittings they were not conductive anywhere as far as I could tell. I came to the conclusion they were isolating the machine from static rather than providing a path to ground. I'm no expert in this subject matter so maybe I'm missing something, is the purpose of Antistatic hose to carry static back to the machine for grounding or is it to not build static charge up in large quantities and risk  charging the debris entering the machine?

 
frankly, oneida could do a better job explaining the EXACT scenarios in which one needs to consider the problem of static buildup when used with a ct and one of their cyclones.  For example, their "product bulletin"https://www.oneida-air.com/blog/ultimate-dust-deputy-product-awareness-bulletin suggests that owners of the UDD go through the process to check using specialized equipment if the static continuity is maintained.  Personally, that suggestion is a bit unrealistic unless you are an electrician with the correct equipment and knowledge.

Festool could also do a better job explaining what their "antistatic" and "non-antistatic" hoses and accessories do in regard to a real world scenario such as this one with the UDD.  The intuitive inclination would be to use a non-antistatic hose to reduce the potential of built up static jumping, but they make no recommendation about what use cases the two different variations offer. 

Additionally, Festool should clarify exactly what "non-antistatic" and "antistatic" mean.  are the "non-antistatic" accessories static dissipating or static conductive?
 
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