Weird day — LR 32 Alignment and TS55 Struggling

[SoonerFan]

I am making some cabinets and grabbed by TS55 and got out my LR32.  I made matched side panels (divisible by 32) and went 16 up and out for the end stops.  The rail fit tight and there was no slop in either direction.  End stops snug to the panel.  I offset the holes from the edge of the panel by 37mm as I always do. 

I completed two panels with some weird happenings:

1.  I used the TS55 a couple days to start breaking down the sheet goods.  No issues, clean cuts, etc.  When finishing breaking down the 18mm maple ply today the saw struggled.  I mean really struggled.  Burn marks it seems on almost every cut.  I had the saw on full power and the CT36 has almost no dust in it.  I am cutting on foam as I always do and as I did without issue a couple days ago.  I changed to a freshly sharpened blade and it was better but still no where near what I am used to.  And no where near as easy as a couple days ago even with a sharper blade.  I cut some 35mm strips of poplar for the face frames today and the TS still struggled.  I checked and there is no slop between the TS and the rail and it was not binding on the rail.

2.  After drilling the holes with the LR I noticed the holes on the front of the panels were 1.5 higher than the back of the panel.  I drilled 12 sets of holes on 2 panels.  Each time the holes in the front were 1.5mm higher.  I checked the panels to confirm square and one was off maybe .5mm over 450mm.  I double checked and the rail stops did no allow any sideways movement.

Any ideas why my TS might be suddenly bogging down when compared to just a couple days ago or on where I might be injecting the error with the LR32?  I have not made cabinets in a while.  Maybe I am rusty and missing something but cannot think what might be causing these issues.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays Fellow Foggers!

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Without video it’s pretty hard to say what happened but the difficulty cutting along with burning would seem to me that the blade is being pinched between the wood.  Could the vac hose, cord, or anything else have caused the wood to pinch?

 

[flair woodworks]

1. Were you cutting a single 18 mm sheet or two or more simultaneously? Were you using the fine, universal, or rip blade to cut the poplar strips? What is the saw RPM set to? You can also check the saw’s toe out (angle of the blade in relation to the guide rail).

2. I don’t use the LR 32 system, but know the end stop can be positioned multiple ways. Is one of those ways 1.5 mm offset?

Lastly, a significantly curved guide rail could cause both these issues. Hope it’s not this!

 

[SoonerFan]

I was just cutting one sheet at a time.  The cord and hose were not catching on anything.  The culprit might have been a pencil I found on the table.  It was lifting up one side of the boards.  I will head to the shop later this week and check it out with a totally flat board.

The LR32 issue still perplexes me.....

 

[xedos]

The blade you use for cutting sheeT goods cleanly is NOT any good for ripping poplar.

I’ve found the 48t Festool blade struggles on some sheetgoods. A 28t gives better results then. 

I’ve also had brand new Festool / Leitz  blades that were mis sharpened or had some other defect from the factory that made them struggle and burn in 19mm sheetgoods right out of the package .

In short , your prob. could be a number of things. Start by eliminating things one by one.

 

[SoonerFan]

The blade you use for cutting sheeT goods cleanly is NOT any good for ripping poplar.

I’ve found the 48t Festool blade struggles on some sheetgoods. A 28t gives better results then. 

I’ve also had brand new Festool / Leitz  blades that were mis sharpened or had some other defect from the factory that made them struggle and burn in 19mm sheetgoods right out of the package .

In short , your prob. could be a number of things. Start by eliminating things one by one.

I agree with you.  I to eliminate things one by one.  I started by changing blades although from one 48t to a newly sharpened and cleaned 48t.  Old 48t did fine a few days ago and then struggled. Leads me to believe it was something else but I changed blades just to make sure.  I have other blades but never had issues cutting sheet goods with the 55 before.

Like [member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member], I am thinking I was pinching the blade between the wood.  Maybe it was the random pencil under the board I mentioned above and maybe it is something else.  Next will doable check to make sure the boards are flat on the table and that nothing is binding/pinching.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

 

[xedos]

You've got the idea but haven't taken it to its conclusion.

You don't know how that ply reacts with a different tooth count blade, or with another saw & blade.

And did you test the 55 setup with both blades on other sheet material?  Cutting the poplar is not a valid test with a 48t blade.

You've only eliminated that the 48t blades you have won't cut the ply you have worth a hoot.  You still can't rule out whether it's the blades, the saw , the material , or a combo.

 

[tjbnwi]

It's 2020, try again in a few weeks [eek]

Tom

 

[Bugsysiegals]

@Chris Wong mentioned above about the toe out ... I’m not sure how to check this but if the blade isn’t parallel with the track it would have the same effect.

Also, my first time using my table saw I put the blade on backwards ... I doubt it’s the case but worth checking.

 

[flair woodworks]

[member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] mentioned above about the toe out ... I’m not sure how to check this but if the blade isn’t parallel with the track it would have the same effect.

Also, my first time using my table saw I put the blade on backwards ... I doubt it’s the case but worth checking.

I would clamp the guide rail and make a cut, being careful to avoid excess blade deflection. Then engage the FastFix, lower the saw blade until it locks, and position the saw along the cut so that the entire blade is beside the material. Then check the gap between the teeth and cut material with a sheet of paper. I’d want to see one extra sheet of paper (about 0.007”) fit between the back of the blade and material than at the front.

 

[SoonerFan]

It's 2020, try again in a few weeks [eek]

Tom

Good suggestion.  Maybe I will just work on the other projects and then start back up on the cabinets after the new year.

 

[SoonerFan]

[member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] mentioned above about the toe out ... I’m not sure how to check this but if the blade isn’t parallel with the track it would have the same effect.

Also, my first time using my table saw I put the blade on backwards ... I doubt it’s the case but worth checking.

I double checked the blade direction.  Wish it would have been that simple.  Thanks.

 

[SoonerFan]

[member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] mentioned above about the toe out ... I’m not sure how to check this but if the blade isn’t parallel with the track it would have the same effect.

Also, my first time using my table saw I put the blade on backwards ... I doubt it’s the case but worth checking.

I would clamp the guide rail and make a cut, being careful to avoid excess blade deflection. Then engage the FastFix, lower the saw blade until it locks, and position the saw along the cut so that the entire blade is beside the material. Then check the gap between the teeth and cut material with a sheet of paper. I’d want to see one extra sheet of paper (about 0.007”) fit between the back of the blade and material than at the front.

Thanks Chris.  I will give this a try over the weekend.  Also going to cut some of the ply on my MFT/3 to see if that works.  It was working great a few days ago but then again it was fine on my cutting table.

More to come

 

[sancho57]

That happens if you dont clamp the rail and if you check the adjustments on the MFT and LR 32, slight bump and the MFT fence can go out of square and it you dont clamp the rail it can and will move on ya.

The rapid clamp works well in this situation

 

[SoonerFan]

That happens if you dont clamp the rail and if you check the adjustments on the MFT and LR 32, slight bump and the MFT fence can go out of square and it you dont clamp the rail it can and will move on ya.

The rapid clamp works well in this situation

I did clamp the rail.  Maybe was still a little loose?  Also weird the holes (both sides of the panel) are parallel to the front of the board and error is same on both side panels.

 

[sancho57]

[member=28223]SoonerFan[/member]

""Any ideas why my TS might be suddenly bogging down when compared to just a couple days ago or on where I might be injecting the error with the LR32?  I have not made cabinets in a while.  Maybe I am rusty and missing something but cannot think what might be causing these issues.  Any help would be appreciated.""

Is the blade sharp? Does it need cleaning? Is the saw out of adj? Is the top and botton of the panel parallel? You said the clamp may have been loose , it needs to be tight. Did you trim off the factory edge before you ripped the ply.

The reason Im axing these questions is because I had simular experiances with the LR 32. I had a chat with Alan K he told me the panel has to be 100% square with the top and bottomand sides parallel cuz it will throw the holes off. I staeted taking my time setting up from womb to tomb going through the numbers setting up ripping , cross cutting etc etc and the issues went away. It all starts with the MFTA being set up properly and squared.

Just giving you my experience. Hope it helps. If it doesnt then I suggest giving either Festool orAlan K or  Don Ware at Anderson ply. They know these tools better than most everyone I know. ( Thom to but hes real busy running his business)

 

[fshanno]

Never had any luck flipping the guide for different columns of holes with my LR 32.

So what I do is rig up my MFT with my 55" holey rail on the bridge so that I can always register the hole columns from the bottom and the front of the cabinet side.  I use story boards the same thickness as the cabinet sides and dogs to set up alignment.

No matter how I've set up the sled on my 1400 I get practically perfect alignment of the holes on both axes.  Small errors are canceled out because they are duplicated on both sides of the case.

 

[Hugh]

I’d guess your router was not central in the LR32 plate or your end stops were damaged.
I’d have tried swapping the end stops round to see if that changed things.

 

[sancho57]

Did you check the LR 32 calibration?

 

[SoonerFan]

Did you check the LR 32 calibration?

[member=10147]jobsworth[/member] sorry I forgot to reply.  I never got it figured out so I referenced from the same side of the panel and it worked fine.  The panel might have been very slightly out of square.  I am heeding your advice and making sure the next panels are perfectly square before drilling the holes.

Also, I sent in my TS55. The culprit was the connector where the plug it cord attaches.  Only cost about $75 to fix and ship back to me.  Took 8 business days total which I think is great.  Service told me to ditch the plug it cord I had been using to avoid tool damage which I did.  I have plenty of cords.  I only use one cord for all tools.  I leave it connected to the Work Center which rides on top of my CT.