What is your preferred countersink bit

[Mario Turcot]

I tried many...my favorite is the Amana style with the stop.

I just received today two from Amana Tools, next will be the Keo ones, especially the larger one. I already have a set like the snappy one.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=66597]Mario Turcot[/member] if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Ron

 

[Mario Turcot]

[member=66597]Mario Turcot[/member] if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Ron

Wow that is super SEXY lol. The only problem I have is to find head cap screws. Homedepot sells a few in size and length but never the ones I need and are crazy expensive... like $1.80 for one screw  [mad]

What you made there is super nice  [big grin]

 

[rvieceli]

I think that Grainger ships to Canada. I’m pretty sure boltdepot.com doesn’t 
https://m.grainger.com/mobile/categ...log/N-15gxZ1yzwi96Z1yza9w6Z1yzy9em/Ntt-Socket+head+cap?EndecaKeyword=Socket+head+cap&NLSCM=17&searchRedirect=Socket+head+cap&sst=subset&isDone=false

Ron

 

[rvieceli]

Heres a nice resource for getting specs on different screw sizes and types.
http://icrank.com/cgi-bin/pageman/pageout.cgi?path=/data/screw/screw_source.htm&t=2

Ron

 

[ChuckM]

Grainger - There are physical stores located in Canada.

 

[Cheese]

[member=66597]Mario Turcot[/member] if you want sexy. Switch to socket head cap screws. Counterbore the hole and then chamfer the edge with a countersink.

Looks nice Ron...it looks like it was chamfered with a zero flute countersink because of the cleanliness of the details.  [smile]

[attachimg=1]

So Mario if you like sexy...here's a box full of semi-sexy, a gaggle of grade 304 stainless 1/4-20 SHCS, BHCS & FHCS in various lengths. The black versions are black oxide coated for aesthetic reasons, but they're still grade 304 for corrosion concerns.

[attachimg=2]

But when it comes to super sexy, these SPS Technologies bolts pull out all of the stops. They're manufactured from a special nickel cobalt stainless named MP35N. It's a limited production material run from SPS. The normal routine, is for the customer to notify SPS every year how many pounds of the material you want to reserve and then SPS will do that for you. Then when you direct them to, SPS will then manufacture for you what you want according to your specs. All material reservation must be done a minimum of 1 year in advance. Well that was 25 years ago, and with the new tariff policy  [eek]  it's probably further into the future than before, and also probably more expensive. These bolts were $18 each 25 years ago. 

[attachimg=3]

This fastener is completely forged, rolled & ground, nothing has been turned. The threads are rolled/ground, the body is ground and the small fillet underneath the head is ground. This fastener is actually relatively cheap considering the number of precision machining operations involved.

[attachimg=4]

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  SPS = Super Pricey Stainless?

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  SPS = Super Pricey Stainless?

You got that one right.  [big grin]

Just did a search and the current price for raw material is $80 per pound.

Also found out that it's now being used for dental and implant applications.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Michael Kellough]

HA!

Picture reminds me, back in the late ‘80’s I was hired to modify 2 dozen prank animated mouths for a play. A salesman’s briefcase was supposed to accidentally open and the mouths fall out and commence chattering, but stop in a certain number of seconds. I added a little Mitsubishi motor, crank arm, and battery and my partner added a custom board for time. Don’t think the play made to the big stage but it was a fun project.

 

[Cheese]

A salesman’s briefcase was supposed to accidentally open and the mouths fall out and commence chattering, but stop in a certain number of seconds.

That's funny...chattering mouths & fluttering hearts must have been an 80's thing.  [tongue]  I remember around the same time that fluttering wind up hearts were being sold. You'd wind one up, hold onto it with both hands and then carefully place it in a specially sized box that prevented any heart movement until the box was opened at which time the heart would "beat".  HA! indeed!

 

[Bob D.]

MP35N sounds similar to Inconel (nickel-chromium) or Monel (nickel-copper) super stainless steels. All are expensive. Last job I used Monel on we were replacing all the bolting (over three hundred  1-1/4" x 9" HHCS with nuts and washers) in a large pump casing and it cost more than $120k for one set of bolts. The old bolting was Monel and still in decent shape after 40+ years in salt water but to be safe they wanted to replace it all to minimize the chance of any failures which could result in a catastrophic failure of the pump so $120k was seen as cheap insurance.

 

[RKA]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] I had to revive this thread to ask a question.  In the photo [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] posted, the countersink was clean and even all the way around.  Is this only possible if you do this in a drill press or is there a technique to do this with a hand drill without resorting to the versions with the pilot that was posted? 

I picked up the Keo bit and tried it on a few test holes and quickly learned doing it by hand resulted in a 50/50 split between horribly uneven countersinks and slightly uneven countersinks.  Even if I'm batching out holes on a drill press, I'm drilling the pilot holes first, then switch to the countersink and go back to do the countersinks.  Unless I'm able to set up stop blocks and a fence to put the work piece precisely where it was when I drilled the pilot, odds are the countersink will be off slightly.  Any tips?

 

[Cheese]

In the photo [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] posted, the countersink was clean and even all the way around.  Is this only possible if you do this in a drill press or is there a technique to do this with a hand drill without resorting to the versions with the pilot that was posted? 

I picked up the Keo bit and tried it on a few test holes and quickly learned doing it by hand resulted in a 50/50 split between horribly uneven countersinks and slightly uneven countersinks.  Even if I'm batching out holes on a drill press, I'm drilling the pilot holes first, then switch to the countersink and go back to do the countersinks.  Unless I'm able to set up stop blocks and a fence to put the work piece precisely where it was when I drilled the pilot, odds are the countersink will be off slightly.  Any tips?

Unfortunately, the drill press is the magic item in this situation.  [smile]

I try to use the drill press any time decorative countersinking needs to be done. It can be done by hand, and I'll show you an example, but it is tedious because it's tough to hold the drill exactly perpendicular to the surface. Anything other than 90º to the surface will get you a wonky looking countersink.

Another plus with the drill press is that if you set the depth limit, every countersink will be the same diameter, nice and uniform.

I'm a firm believer in using the Woodpeckers fence with flip stops on the drill press. That way you've nested every piece in the same location and you can remove and replace them without losing the center datum line. If you get into the habit of doing that, it becomes 2nd nature.

At times I thought I needed only 2 tool changes but then when I started the project, I realized I actually needed 3 or 4 tool changes. That's not a problem if you've used stop blocks or flip stops. Just make sure to mark each piece so you know which sides were registered against the stops. 

Here's a long chunk of walnut that I couldn't fit on the drill press. These countersinks were all done by hand. It was not fun but it's doable.

[attachimg=1]

 

[rvieceli]

[member=21249]RKA[/member]

raj like Cheese said you really need to use the drill press to get the best looking results. Has to be straight or it gets funky.

That particular piece in the shot  is a cylinder socket head cap screw in a chamfered coounterbored hole. It's a three step process.

Drill the through hole.

Counterbore the clearance for the screw head to depth.

Chamfer the edges with an 82 degree counter sink to depth.

Rinse and repeat  [big grin]

All these operations are with the work piece clamped and immobile. Only changing the tooling. Indexing the couterbore depth and the chamfer depth off the surface. I've got a physical depth stop on my press so I use gauge blocks to set the depth.

I'm usually working with irregularly shaped work pieces (live edge) so they don't always index accurately off a fence. I'm generally mating a piece to a metal base. So I'll use a transfer punch to mark the hole centers then drill the through hole. Flip the work piece over because the counterbore needs to be on the other side. I will then use the drill bit as an index pin to get the work piece in the correct alignment and then go through the steps above.

Ron

 

[TinyShop]

I've been really pleased with Snappy's depth stop countersink (w/Centrotec shank I might add):
https://www.snappytools.com/product/43032-premium-rotating-depth-stop

The results are uniform/identical thanks to the depth stop.

 

[RKA]

Thanks [member=44099]Cheese[/member] and [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] !  I didn't realize the issue was that I had skewed the bit from vertical causing the problem.  I thought the bit was walking off center somehow (it looked circular but off center).  I do have a fence with multiple flip stops, but at only 3ft long, sometimes you have to find another way.  The drill being used as an index is great...unless you don't have a keyless chuck, then you spend your afternoon tightening and loosening that chuck (Cheese, don't start on that Albrecht chuck, that's a different rabbit hole for a different day =) ).

The sad part is, all the work you put into those nicely countersunk screws is appreciated by only a few.  I can imagine going through that 3 step process on something only to have my wife ask why didn't I just use the nailer  [eek].  ---> Because I wanted it to look pretty!!!  (that's when I get the shoulder shrug)

 

[Cheese]

The sad part is, all the work you put into those nicely countersunk screws is appreciated by only a few.

The truth be told Raj...it's only appreciated by an audience of one.  [huh]  But it certainly enhances my skill sets so that's what I really enjoy...learning and doing better work. [smile]

There's no better justification for a keyless chuck than when needing multiple tool changes for producing a single feature. [poke]

Hey Ron [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] , that's an interesting counterbore. Do you know who manufactures it?

[attachimg=1]

 

[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] It's just a generic 2 flute HSS solid pilot counterbore. Pretty sure I got it from Enco before MSC made them go away [sad]

it is a 1/4 inch pilot 13/32 counterbore. I think it was branded Qualtech when I bought it but in reality not even the packaging had a brand name on it.

I got that one, one for 5/16 shcs and 3/8 shcs. I just use it for wood would probably upgrade to something US made for metal.

I think Global Industrial and probably others import them now.
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...-inch-pilot-dia-x-13-32-inch-d-3-5-8-inch-oal

Ron

 

[rst]

In regard to wandering countersinks, there are piloted versions available for the Weldon style sinks.  I know have at least three different sizes but so not remember where I bought them from.