What - non Festool - tool / workshop related gizmo/stuff did you buy today?

[Packard]

I’ve found that a lot of fairly expensive tools need honing to make them useful.  This especially in regards to planes and chisels.

The reviews all seem to start out with, “After some honing we found this to be an excellent […]”.

Or,

“After sharpening and tuning this plane, we achieved excellent results […]”.

I don’t know.  If I paid $250.00 for a jack plane, I would want it to work right out of the box.

 

[MikeGE]

I’ve found that a lot of fairly expensive tools need honing to make them useful.  This especially in regards to planes and chisels.

The reviews all seem to start out with, “After some honing we found this to be an excellent […]”.

Or,

“After sharpening and tuning this plane, we achieved excellent results […]”.

I don’t know.  If I paid $250.00 for a jack plane, I would want it to work right out of the box.

All of my Lie Nielsen planes and chisels worked right out of the box.  However, there is always room for improvement.  Even with a plane that is perfect out of the box and can slice the electron away from an atom, the plane iron will eventually need to be sharpened.

After attending the one-week Tool Tuning course with the late David Charlesworth, all of my planes and chisels are much better.  With the exception of two planes, all benefited from a little attention.

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, a sharp edge makes a huge difference in hand tool work.

The blade that comes with the edge trimming plane is sharp. Note that the cuts on the paper shown here were made at a right angle to its edge. They are not slicing cuts at an angle, which even a not very sharp blade could achieve.

[attachimg=1]

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.  Even with a plane that is perfect out of the box and can slice the electron away from an atom, the plane iron will eventually need to be sharpened. Snip.

Certainly true. We replace worn sandpaper with new one, sharpen a knife or send a table saw blade put for sharpening for the same reason.

 

[squall_line]

Snip.  Even with a plane that is perfect out of the box and can slice the electron away from an atom, the plane iron will eventually need to be sharpened. Snip.

Certainly true. We replace worn sandpaper with new one, sharpen a knife or send a table saw blade put for sharpening for the same reason.

True, but "eventually" shouldn't mean "after the first time I try to use it and find that it doesn't work very well."

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.  Even with a plane that is perfect out of the box and can slice the electron away from an atom, the plane iron will eventually need to be sharpened. Snip.

Certainly true. We replace worn sandpaper with new one, sharpen a knife or send a table saw blade put for sharpening for the same reason.

True, but "eventually" shouldn't mean "after the first time I try to use it and find that it doesn't work very well."

My understanding is that MikeGE's use of "eventually" bears no reference to how good or how bad the first use of the tool is. His point is clear to me that whether the tool comes scary sharp or not, the user still has to sharpen it after some uses.

 

[MikeGE]

My understanding is that MikeGE's use of "eventually" bears no reference to how good or how bad the first use of the tool is. His point is clear to me that whether the tool comes scary sharp or not, the user still has to sharpen it after some uses.

Exactly. I had no expectations that any of my LN tools would be perfectly usable out of the box, as compared to drill bits, saw blades, Tersa knives, shaper knives, or router bits.  To be fair, all of the planes and chisels were sharp enough to remove wood; however, David Charlesworth showed me how they could be much better with a little one-time tuning and then a repeatable routine sharpening.  We made some comparison cuts using a new untouched LN 5-1/2 plane before and after his techniques and the difference was striking.  The LN website states the planes come ready to use, but additional honing will improve performance.

 

[Michael Kellough]

This requires grinding.

[attachimg=1]

 

[squall_line]

This requires grinding.

[attachimg=1]

So much for "Precision Ground High Speed Steel"...

 

[ChuckM]

My understanding is that MikeGE's use of "eventually" bears no reference to how good or how bad the first use of the tool is. His point is clear to me that whether the tool comes scary sharp or not, the user still has to sharpen it after some uses.

Exactly. I had no expectations that any of my LN tools would be perfectly usable out of the box, as compared to drill bits, saw blades, Tersa knives, shaper knives, or router bits.  To be fair, all of the planes and chisels were sharp enough to remove wood; however, David Charlesworth showed me how they could be much better with a little one-time tuning and then a repeatable routine sharpening.  We made some comparison cuts using a new untouched LN 5-1/2 plane before and after his techniques and the difference was striking.  The LN website states the planes come ready to use, but additional honing will improve performance.

In its earlier version (a decade ago or more), Lee Valley advertised its planes as being ready to use out of the box. The blades were sharp to the extent that the edge could cut and draw blood if you were not careful, but not to the same extent of what some experienced woodworkers considered sharp. So the wordings have been changed to include honing as a recommended step.

 

[Packard]

Why do we accept the not-quite-sharp planes and chisels that cost a small fortune, but we would be furious if the Dollar Store utility knife blades were similarly not-quite sharp?

It is we, the consumers that drive this behavior in manufactures by accepting the nearly complete product as “acceptable”.

I bought a Veritas radius plane that specifically said, “Hone prior to use”.  I did that but it galled me to have to.

 

[ChuckM]

As long as a blade is dead flat, edge square and ground at the specified angle, that fits my bill.

We pay premium prices not because the blade is sharp (or not), but because the plane is well made. Try using a scary sharp blade with a $32.99 (Cdn) carpenter's plane or plane-lookalike object.

Is it nice if a plane comes sharpened to the highest standard I want? Of course. But, I know there's no free lunch.

If a business could make planes and deliver them with very sharp blades at prices competitive to what Veritas, L-N and others charge, that business must have existed and thrived.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would guess that it's just too labor intensive. As long as the sole is flat, the frog holds the blade correctly, and the blade is actually quality metal, the user can do the rest.
The top quality brands are closer than the cheap ones, but an end-user who cannot "maintain" it, will always be disappointed.

However, that corner chisel is atrocious. That doesn't even approach sharp. The metal is so soft that it's not just dull, it's blunt. Soft and rounded over.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I would guess that it's just too labor intensive. As long as the sole is flat, the frog holds the blade correctly, and the blade is actually quality metal, the user can do the rest.
The top quality brands are closer than the cheap ones, but an end-user who cannot "maintain" it, will always be disappointed.

However, that corner chisel is atrocious. That doesn't even approach sharp. The metal is so soft that it's not just dull, it's blunt. Soft and rounded over.

But sharpening the blade should just be a fairly simple extension of the processes they already have in place to manufacture the planes surely?

The blades will all be punched, cut and ground to identical dimensions, and with the machines and automation these manufacturers have, it would add an insiginificant amount of time to simple put a decent sharp edge on it as part of the process.

 

[MikeGE]

Why do we accept the not-quite-sharp planes and chisels that cost a small fortune, but we would be furious if the Dollar Store utility knife blades were similarly not-quite sharp?

It is we, the consumers that drive this behavior in manufactures by accepting the nearly complete product as “acceptable”.

I bought a Veritas radius plane that specifically said, “Hone prior to use”.  I did that but it galled me to have to.

I suppose you have different expectations for user-maintained edged tools.  When I buy a utility knife or replacement blades for a utility knife, I absolutely expect them to be razor sharp and ready to go.  When I buy replacement Tersa knives for my jointer, I expect them to be ready to go.  Although I have the means, I don't have the desire to sharpen dull disposable blades, so I'm not going to invest any effort into this.  When I buy replacement blades for my lawn mower, I do not expect the cutting edge to be sharp, so I take care of this when I buy them.

My planes and chisels are different than disposable knives.  I don't care that they don't meet my new standards out of the box, as it takes little time and effort for me to bring them up to my standard and I am confident that they will remain at that standard for the rest of my life.  Part of the tool tuning process is a one-time effort, but honing the edge and camber on the plane iron is a recurring effort several times an hour when aggressively using the tools.  I did invest in the sharpening equipment and training to do this.

I don't know any woodworkers who use planes and don't have the means to be self-sufficient during use.  Those who use planes and chisels touch them up before using them the first time and go to the stones as required during use.  Dictum, in Germany, offers its customers unlimited free sharpening service for some LN planes and two free sharpenings for other LN and Veritas planes.  However, this requires returning the tool to Dictum and waiting a few days for it to be returned with the customer paying the round-trip postage. I would never finish a project if I had to wait days between sharpenings.

I treat new edged tools the same as I do with the blades that came with my new bandsaw.  The blades met the requirement for being able to cut with the machine, but don't rely on them for quality work.  They were barely suited for the metal reclamation bin.  After the first attempt to cut some 12mm plywood, I tossed them in the trash and bought an extensive set of quality blades from a UK vendor (Tuff Saws) before he stopped selling to European customers (thank you, Brexit  ).

 

[ChuckM]

Snip. with the machines and automation these manufacturers have, it would add an insiginificant amount of time to simple put a decent sharp edge on it as part of the process.

I can't speak for the manufacturers, but I'm familiar with the Veritas blades and chisels. They are sharp from the factory, decently sharp, that's, but of course, nowhere near as sharp as after the back and micro bevel are honed with a 10,000 stone. For fine woodworking, I wouldn't use it without honing.

Here is a Veritas A2 blade, never honed, still in its rust protective plastic case, 45* from the factory.

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]

If honed, it should be able to slice the paper at a right angle.

 

[derekcohen]

No hand plane or chisel comes ready to rock. All blades need to be honed. Those that believe (from using) LN or Veritas (or who ever) out of the box, and proclaim “sharp” have no concept of what working sharp actually is. Veritas hone to only 400 grit.

There is also no such thing as uber sharp. For those who use hand tools all the time, sharp is just sharp - get it as sharp as you can. A properly sharp blade will cut more easily, stay on line more accurately, and produce the best results.

By-the-by, here is my Veritas Edge Plane. One of three made ….

For squaring corners, use the chisel from a hollow mortice chisel. These are easy to hone with a sharpening cone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ChuckM]

By-the-by, here is my Veritas Edge Plane. One of three made ….

Snip.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The prototype seems to have the set screws in the design.

 

[Cheese]

By-the-by, here is my Veritas Edge Plane. One of three made ….

For squaring corners, use the chisel from a hollow mortice chisel. These are easy to hone with a sharpening cone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, what's the story behind the One of three? What's so special and why only 3?

Great tip for squaring corners with the hollow mortice chisel.  [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

If a business could make planes and deliver them with very sharp blades at prices competitive to what Veritas, L-N and others charge, that business must have existed and thrived.

That's the reason I'm pondering purchasing a Blue Spruce chisel to evaluate. They claim the back of the chisel is LAPPED to .0001" flatness with a 4000 grit stone. I have a complete set of Pfeil Swiss chisels which I absolutely love. I'm just curious how the sharpness levels compare, OEM sharpness vs user applied sharpness.

I'm certainly aware of the amount of work I put into flattening the backs of those Pfeil chisels.  [crying]