What square to buy for MFT/3 squaring?

[grbmds]

With a couple of alloy dogs you can make it all square is eh dog holes are in a square pattern. So you do not even need a square.

You are absolutely correct.  But there two basic ways of addressing the use of the MFT tables.  The first is using the table profiles as a reference to square off of and the second is to square off of the table grid.  Both will work and that why a quality square will come in handy if someone chooses not to use the holes as a reference.

Peter

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member] I started out trying to square to the table grid just using the holes in the MFT. Now, though I have found that I need to have the final assurance that the rail is at a perfect 90 to the fence by checking that with a square I know is "perfect". So, I still do line up the fence with the dog holes by inserting dogs on the backside of the fence. When the fence is secure, I then use my square to square up the rail to the fence. I have found that I get essentially perfect 90's if I go through that process when I am making my final crosscuts to size. Since I do bump into the table once in awhile in my shop I have decided I need that final step when I'm ready to make final crosscuts. I am very happy with the result (because I have a great and accurate square). That's just me, though, and my insecurity that something won't be square just using the holes.

 

[Holmz]

So with dogs that are parallel to the fence, would a scrap of wood ripped to the gap be sufficient to ensure that the fence was parallel to the dog holes?

 

[Bohdan]

So with dogs that are parallel to the fence, would a scrap of wood ripped to the gap be sufficient to ensure that the fence was parallel to the dog holes?

Yes. And that would also be the easiest way the square the holes to the MFT rail as long as the wood was truly parrallel.

 

[Holmz]

So with dogs that are parallel to the fence, would a scrap of wood ripped to the gap be sufficient to ensure that the fence was parallel to the dog holes?

Yes. And that would also be the easiest way the square the holes to the MFT rail as long as the wood was truly parrallel.

Or one cuts a square piece of ply and flips it over.
Any angle error will show up as double...

I actually have a couple of squares but I only use them off the MFT myself.

 

[Scorpion]

Or one cuts a square piece of ply and flips it over.
Any angle error will show up as double...

I actually have a couple of squares but I only use them off the MFT myself.

Both are true for me as well.  The cut, flip, /2 method is fast, easy, and free.  As a result, my big square doesn't spend much time on the mft.

 

[peter halle]

I personally use dogs to set mine up.  Several members have found this video from a few years ago helpful: 

Peter

 

[Scorpion]

I personally use dogs to set mine up.  Several members have found this video from a few years ago helpful: 

Peter

This method is quick, reliable, and doesn't require much thought as long as you can live within the constraints of the dog hole layout.  An example of a setup where it's less than ideal is when you want to set up at the outer limits of the table for width (say 24-inches) for setting the fence/miter extrusion.  The dog hole layout prevents it even though the table is wide enough to support it. 

 

[Holmz]

One can use anything for a shim to get any delta between the 96-mm holes. One can use wood, a beer can, a ruler.
But One can use a straight edge if they are more comfortable with it.

 

[JonSchuck]

A year or so ago I was wondering just how accurate those holes in the mft/3s  were.  I took two Qwas dogs, stuck them in adjacent holes and measured them with my digital caliper, outside to outside.  I wrote that number on the mft3 right between the holes.  I did that with about half the holes in one mft/3 and about one fourth the holes on my other one, in both the x and y axis.  I was looking for variation.
I just went out and looked at my tables.  Most of the holes were within three thousandths of 4.585 inches.  However, the smallest was 4.575" and the largest was 4.593".  I was very careful to hold the caliper the same on all of them.  I checked all of them twice and the ones that were way off several times more.
Now, when using the dogs as a fence, I keep them as far apart as possible to minimize the error.

 

[Corwin]

A year or so ago I was wondering just how accurate those holes in the mft/3s  were.  I took two Qwas dogs, stuck them in adjacent holes and measured them with my digital caliper, outside to outside.  I wrote that number on the mft3 right between the holes.  I did that with about half the holes in one mft/3 and about one fourth the holes on my other one, in both the x and y axis.  I was looking for variation.
I just went out and looked at my tables.  Most of the holes were within three thousandths of 4.585 inches.  However, the smallest was 4.575" and the largest was 4.593".  I was very careful to hold the caliper the same on all of them.  I checked all of them twice and the ones that were way off several times more.
Now, when using the dogs as a fence, I keep them as far apart as possible to minimize the error.

Now hope that your perforated top doesn't sag. For if it does, those holes are no longer vertical. Worse yet, they will vary greatly -- outer holes more vertical than center holes throwing any possibility of 'accurate' alignment totally out the window. Even the holes along the back row or two are not plumb enough to use for alignment purposes. At least that has been my experience with only a moderate amount of sag back when they were still looking at importing 20mm pipe from across the pond to use for their dogs. I can do much better using other methods without having these errors interfere. Yet, I am sure your experience will vary.

 

[Corwin]

Here's another thought I've had in mind. And one for all you dog lovers, 'cause, heck, I love dogs too. Walk mine three or four times every day. Anyway, how about purchasing a second 'replacement' top for your MFT. Either take this, or swap out with your current top, and trim down slightly to allow it to be used as a sled on your MFT. As I recall, that grid of holes is also parallel with the edge, and if not, you can easily make it so by trimming an edge using your dogs to align the rail. So, now you can slide this sled left/right against your current fence. Unleash your dogs to align the backside of your rail to obtain a sqaure setup. Then this sled is used to make narrow rips or align smaller pieces under the rail. Like this:

[attachimg=1]

Thanks Brice Burrell for the MFT model.  [big grin]

Or, you could just buy a nice [big] square. I have two of those too.  [big grin]

 

[grbmds]

I just use the Woodpecker's MFT Square for piece of mind when I want to make sure the fence and rail are at a "perfect" 90 with each other. It's a simple step to check and not much longer if I find that the two guided are not quite square (generally because they were bumped. It's a pricey tool, but can you put a price on something that always gives you a good feeling what your chekcing is square?

 

[Anderson-Plywood]

Thanks for awesome comment!
[big grin]

The Anserson Plywood square is very nice and nuts on square. Best value even if you just use it for the MFT.

 

[Anderson-Plywood]

Just another photo of our Square from another angle.

Here is the link if you would like to order one:
http://www.andersonplywood.com/square-for-festool-mft-square/

 

[Dane]

I'm a former LA guy and love Anderson.  I had that square in the shopping cart- but man, shipping's kind of a bear....doubles the cost.  Still a square deal, but you might get more action if you can get that shipping hit down a bit.

 

[Anderson-Plywood]

Thanks for your comment!
Shipping cost is a little bit high because of the irregular shape of the package (30"x22"x2"), we don't mark up the shipping cost and it is automatically calculated by the UPS & USPS APIs which are integrated in our web store.

Even if you put two squares in one order, the shipping size will only change slightly because the size will be 31x22x4.

The thing is it is still a pretty good deal including the shipping cost. (I heard rumors that prices are going up by the end of today due to higher production cost  [wink])

We hope to see you back in our store again! 

 

[sancho57]

I'm a former LA guy and love Anderson.  I had that square in the shopping cart- but man, shipping's kind of a bear....doubles the cost.  Still a square deal, but you might get more action if you can get that shipping hit down a bit.

I ordered 2 of them. I already have a woodpeckers 45m triangle that I know is dead on square. but I thought Id try this one. A bud of mine here said he needed a square and this seems to me (if it is dead nuts on) better then the 1281 WP square for setting up the MFT.

Even with the shipping its still less expensive then anything else I know of thats accurate and can be used to set up a MFT.

Im looking fwd to getting my lunch clamps on it to try it out.

 

[Anderson-Plywood]

We launched this product locally and asked our professional customers to try it out and the feedback was great.. Then we thought this is a good tool, we should share it with all Festool owners.

http://www.andersonplywood.com/square-for-festool-mft-square/

 

[Anderson-Plywood]

Some people buy 2 at a time, the shipping cost stays almost the same, so if you have a Festool buddy, you can get two of them and share the shipping cost..
We have also enabled the USPS shipping for the Square, it will be a few bucks cheaper.

I'm a former LA guy and love Anderson.  I had that square in the shopping cart- but man, shipping's kind of a bear....doubles the cost.  Still a square deal, but you might get more action if you can get that shipping hit down a bit.

 

[MFalconer]

I'm a former LA guy and love Anderson.  I had that square in the shopping cart- but man, shipping's kind of a bear....doubles the cost.  Still a square deal, but you might get more action if you can get that shipping hit down a bit.

There is a trick  [wink] [cool] add a cheap Festool item to your order and the shipping will be free..  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]