When will be released corded systainer saw?

euwood

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When will be released corded systainer saw?
(or power adapter for Festool Cordless table saw CSC SYS 50)

I really like the compact size and low weight of Festool Cordless table saw CSC SYS 50. It fit inside systainer!

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Festool Cordless table saw CSC SYS 50

Size: 512 x 396 x 296 mm
Weight: 15 kg

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Are we getting a corded version? I haven't heard anything regarding a corded version. I would much rather see the 8 ah battery Europe has or even an unannounced 12 ah 15 cell battery for that extra runtime and power over a corded model. How many users are using the saw quicker than two chargers can recharge a set of batteries?
 
I agree with the op. I don’t want to have to buy and cycle 4 batteries to run this thing.
 
Mains (power) adapter would bear serious obstacles. As it has been said numerous times, a feasible sized/dimensioned adapter & transformer and cable would be highly limited in possible amp/ current draw. It works with small sanders, Festool has shown that and offers the corresponding product. Other manufacturers have shown that it works with crimping/ press tools, lighting solutions and other low amp/ current draw tools.

A corded variant of the CSC might be an interesting option and probably sell quite well, however my impression is that Festool right now is pushing cordless really hard. I have no idea if the current drawn by a 36V CSC is within the limitations for any feasible sized mains adapter, or if it would need a 120V / 240V complete re-design. 

Wait for the next leaked pictures from commercial end-user hands-on demonstrations and you’ll know what is on the table and what not for the foreseeable future.

I’m pretty sure if the mains adapter would have been an easy to do/ engineer option, it would have been introduced along with the CSC.  Remember, they would have had to make sure it would not fit the angle grinders/ diamond cutting tools/ concrete grinders …

Since I have been proven wrong on Festool predictions before, take this with a grain of salt. Maybe they release it tomorrow.

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
[member=61712]six-point socket II[/member] For the 110v users I could see it maybe being an issue but I doubt it, but certainly for us 230/240v countries it's as simple as an AC to DC converter with a plug that connects to the inputs.

And it's a lot easier to get certification for DC supplies.
 
The issue is the size of the transformer and cable dimensions to the tool. Simple in theory, an obstacle from the usability side. And a one-size fits all solution would be killer in price and size. So you need to ensure that high amp/ current drawing tools can’t be connected to it if it’s not dimensioned accordingly.

Just what Festool did with the cordless sanders & mains adapter.

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
six-point socket II said:
The issue is the size of the transformer and cable dimensions to the tool. Simple in theory, an obstacle from the usability side. And a one-size fits all solution would be killer in price and size. So you need to ensure that high amp/ current drawing tools can’t be connected to it if it’s not dimensioned accordingly.

Just what Festool did with the cordless sanders & mains adapter.

Kind regards,
Oliver

And again recently with the new 12V LIon batteries for the CXS 12, which are "keyed" differently again than the older 12V batteries from the older C12, etc.
 
Cordless is the future. Much more efficient to make the same batteries and motors work for the entire world. Simply make localized chargers.
 
Just an observation:
Maybe 6-7 years ago I ran across a Sawzall style demolition saw that advertised it could be run on battery or mains power. I believe it was offered for sale in the Euro market and I waited patiently for it to be offered in the States. I tried to find it again about a year later and every year since but have never found a single article on it again. It completely vanished from the internet. The saw was either red or red-orange in color and I considered it a break-through at the time because a corded Sawzall was rated at 12 amps.

So...maybe there was a good reason it was taken off of the market.  [tongue]
 
six-point socket II said:
[member=44099]Cheese[/member] link for you:https://www.albert-roller.de/dl/10_cat/deu-DEU/sections/ROLLER-S-Carat-22V-VE-deu-DEU.pdf

English version, no prices:https://www.albert-roller.de/dl/10_cat/eng-GBR-oP/sections/ROLLER-S-Carat-22V-VE-eng-GBR-oP.pdf

Everyone else, look at the size of that transformer, dimensioning of cables and connector … And the price.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Thanks for that Oliver...I remember the color because the first time I ran across it I thought it was a Milwaukee product. I've been trying to find that for years.  [smile]  It looked cool about 6-7 years ago, now...not so much. [smile]

That corded adapter is huge.  [eek]
 
The Dewalt FlexVolt 12" compound miter saw can be powered by battery or the included transformer? that attaches where the batteries do. Best of the both worlds.
 
In the scheme of things manufacturing a dual output AC to DC plugpack is one of the most trivial things that can be made, as the components are pretty much modular apart from the control circuitry tying it all together. Festool could even simply use a readily available 36VDC @ 3-5A output SMPS that would be very low cost, I suspect the most expensive part would be the actual connectors.

There's absolutely nothing special or complicated at all about using or making AC to DC and DC to DC convertors.
 
Only that those 3-5A get you nowhere. Depending on the tool, we’re talking 75A @ 18V under load (Metabo angle grinder w/ LiHD for example. Just starting a Makita angle grinder peaks at 9.XA @ 18V for a moment and is at about 5A running without load …), and thats where any external supply gets expensive and complicated from the usability side of things.

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
I can't find a rating anywhere specifically for the SYS 50 brushless motor, but I think it would be a fair assumption to be around the same rating or certainly no more than, the TS60K which is rated at max 1500w given the comparative battery life claimed.

This is well within spec for any half decent universal input DC PSU that will also cover bursts and higher loads.
 
I have the Metabo 36/18 tablesaw, it has a 120v transformer adapter, it draws 20 amps so my Honda 2200 will not run it as it is only rated for 13 amps. I used it last using batteries to rip 10’ 2x6s.  I have six or 8 batteries so it was great.  How you intend to use your saw should dictate how many batteries you will need.
 
luvmytoolz said:
I can't find a rating anywhere specifically for the SYS 50 brushless motor, but I think it would be a fair assumption to be around the same rating or certainly no more than, the TS60K which is rated at max 1500w given the comparative battery life claimed.

This is well within spec for any half decent universal input DC PSU that will also cover bursts and higher loads.

If it was that easy and economical, then I think every cordless tool manufacturer would offer these alternatives.  However, Oliver is correct when he writes it is difficult.  The confusion could be in thinking the 5AH rating of the 18V batteries means this is its working discharge rate.  The rating means the battery can be discharged at a rate of 5 Amps for one hour.  In normal use, the discharge rate is many times higher and this reduces the available energy in the battery.  If the discharge rate is doubled to 10A, the battery will have about 30 minutes of life.  Double the discharge rate again to 20A, and the life drops to 15 minutes.  This concept is well known in the RC model community where flight times for large battery packs are 10-15 minutes.

Using your example of 1500W and dual 18V 5AH batteries, the full load on the batteries will depend on the configuration.  I don't know if the dual 18V batteries are in series for 36V or parallel for 18V.  If the batteries are series at 36V, the demand on the batteries is about 42A.  If the batteries are parallel at 18V, the demand is about 84A.  I don't know of any "half decent universal input DC PSU" that can handle the sustained demand at these levels.

To make the design more difficult, the cabling between the power supply and the battery adapter must be large enough to handle the full current.  As memory serves, the conductor size will be 6AWG or 8AWG, which is starting to resemble inexpensive automotive jumper cables.  This problem is minimized in when using the batteries in the tools because of the solid connections and short paths.

Edit: To expand on the discharge rate, I used to fly RC helicopters (Align TRex 600) that used a large 6S 3.3AH 30C battery.  The battery voltage was about 22V and the 30C means it could safely discharge at 30 times the rating, or continuously at 90A.  This discharge rate would drain the battery in about two minutes; however in normal use the electric motor was drawing about 20A from the battery and I was realizing a flight time of about ten minutes.
 
JimH2 said:
The Dewalt FlexVolt 12" compound miter saw can be powered by battery or the included transformer? that attaches where the batteries do. Best of the both worlds.

I'm not totally up on that setup, but if memory serves DeWALT walked back the use of the transformer. The latest iteration of the 60V saw is a single battery and I don't believe it even comes with a transformer and I don't think one is even available.
 
I’m glad I got one then. I was super early on it. Either power source works great. I had the table saw that was a single battery, but ended up selling it to get a different model. I had hoped that it was going to be dual power source.
 
Accepting the points about batteries, don't they already have the TS60K motor, which is 1500W and mains powered, and even takes the same size blade as the CSC SYS 50. It's basically doing the same thing? The voltage conversion would then only be needed for the electronics, which is low-powered and a much easier proposition.

I expect quite a few people (like me) are put off from the big investment needed for batteries that probably have a much shorter lifespan than the table saw.
 
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