Which abrasives for Corian Matte Finish?

[butzla]

I know Titan 2 are the prefered media,  what grits are needed to restore lightly/moderately  scratched corian to a matte finish?  I have an RO150 sander.  The abrasives guide says to finish with vlies pad....which grit(s) there?  Also,  any tips on sanding techniques are appreciated, i.e.,  when and when not to use rotary and random orbit modes, etc.   I saw the tips on Timmy C's site. 
Need to show LOML that the RO150 was a sound investment in a tangible (to her) way.  Thanks in advance!

 

[Ned]

In the Any Solid Surface Fabricators Here? thread, Bill in Seattle recently said:

Contact me anytime via phone ,on my website or email at www.distinctivecountertops.com or bill@festoolsupply.com . I am a certified  fabricator, trainer and warranty repair specialist of all brands of solid surface  for most 20 years now and can help you  solve whatever your needs.
Regards
Bill

Bill's a Festool Dealer as well.

Ned

 

[The Dude]

Solid Surface Sanding and Finishes

1. The right Method of Sanding

The method that works best is sanding from left to right (making sure to overlap ? the pad) then sand from front to back (making sure to overlap).  After the surface has been sanded in both of those directions, sand in a circular motion clockwise (with the sander) in an 8??10? circle.  This circular motion will make the finish more even.  The key is to sand with the direction of the pad.  If you sand against the pad you will leave swirls in the finish.

The other big thing most fabricators don?t realize is that you need to make sure all the sanding dust is removed before going onto the next grit.  You will finish faster and achieve a better surface quality if you don?t skip grits.

For polishing (high gloss finishes, see below), the same method is used. It is important to clean up all compounds before moving on to the next step.

Either 80 or 120 grit can be used to sand seams. When sanding a seam, the Rotex has to be used in Rotex mode (gear drive mode) up to 120 grit. For the next steps with grits of 150 and above, it is recommended to switch to Random Orbital mode (fine sanding, pad spins freely).

2. The right Abrasives

Matte finish:

Light colors: Titan II - 120, 150, 180, Vlies 280 
Dark colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, Vlies 800

Satin Finish:

Light colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, Vlies 800
Dark colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 400,
Platin 500

Semi Gloss:
Light colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 400,
Platin 500
Dark colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 400,
Platin 500, 1000

Gloss:
Light and Dark colors: Titan II ? 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 400, Platin 500,1000, 2000, 4000

High Gloss:
Light and Dark colors:
Same as above (gloss finish) only use compounds after the sand paper

Use sander in Rotex mode (gear driven mode) with the following pads and compounds:

Hard felt ? Rubbing compound (Marine grade)
Soft felt ? Finesse it II
Wool pad ? Liquid glass

Hopefully this helps a bit.

Timmy

 

[butzla]

Wow Timmy!  Pretty comprehensive dude!  So like I'm looking at buying Titan2 in 3 different grits plus a vlies pad?  Yipes, I'm into it almost $175.  Wondering if I could skip the 120 and even 150 and go right to 180?  It's not badly scratched.  Just 12 years worth of normal wear.  Be nice if we didn't have to buy such bulk quantities when we buy abrasives.  I only need enough to do 1 kitchen's worth of counter tops.

Also, another question: what are the 3 different sanding pads all about?   I think the RO150 comes stock with the soft pad, but what would I use the super soft and hard for?  Not just with solid surfaces but with wood too?

 

[The Dude]

Wow Timmy!  Pretty comprehensive dude!  So like I'm looking at buying Titan2 in 3 different grits plus a vlies pad?  Yipes, I'm into it almost $175.  Wondering if I could skip the 120 and even 150 and go right to 180?  It's not badly scratched.  Just 12 years worth of normal wear.  Be nice if we didn't have to buy such bulk quantities when we buy abrasives.  I only need enough to do 1 kitchen's worth of counter tops.

Also, another question: what are the 3 different sanding pads all about?  I think the RO150 comes stock with the soft pad, but what would I use the super soft and hard for?  Not just with solid surfaces but with wood too?

Gimme a jingle dude, I'll sell individual sheets no problem.  The supersoft I don't use much.  When I would use it would be for finishing type work when I need to take some meat away from the sander.  The hard pad I use when I am into taking down some "rough-sawn" lumber...slab work mostly.

Timmy

 

[Bill in seattle]

When I do clean and rebuff for my customers The first thing I do is solvent clean the surface with denatured alcohol and lots of paper towels to get rid of years of residue. If not you will only waste sandpaper by clogging it up and lots of it. CLEAN FIRST!! Access what type of finish you have or want next.  Most tops you can start with 240g  in the rotary mode, titan is the preferred but brilliant will work fine if you all ready have some. Deep  scratches or light burns might need some caressing with 100/120g, make sure to feather it in or you'll leave noticeable dimples later. After 240g, (220 will work too if you already have) jump to 360g and rotary mode, make sure you change your paper often as each piece is only good for about 5-8 sq ft at the most. You will burnish the top if you push it and just waste time having to go back and redo it. The end finish will be more even and uniform. If you are doing a matte finish use 360 again in a random mode for a quick blending over, then use a vlies 280 in random to buff it all down. If you want to go to satin finish go to 500g and random orbit sand, changing the paper every 5-8 sq ft again. some acrylic tops will load up the paper even with vacuum on so have a terry towel or scrap of carpet to touch the abrasive to every few feet to clean off the pad with the sander on.
next go to vlies 800 and buff the top down in random orbit. this should produce a satiny sheen. some materials finish better with the vlies using a spray bottle of water without vacuum as it dosen't make heat as much and the vlies last much longer. (Dark/ clear based solid surface is a must this way. )It is a little messy so wipe spatter up as you go. This should get you a happy top back.
Some other hints;
-lift the cooktop up and support it from under so you can get the pad under that area for a more even finish, and/or pull the range out if its that type. Don't screw up the silver heat tape if its there, and it should be if it was done right.  at least tape off the edges of all appliances that the sander might bump into and damage the finish. I use laminate strips on finished wood panels and refers or stainless steel, taped in place to protect them, I don't like buying new stuff for them or calling a touch up guy.
Keep the first grits away from the backsplashes a few inches and move in closer with each grit. wear is not usually bad against the wall and if you drive the sander into the silicone joint ,now you have another project to do. You should be able to work right up to the splash on the last grit or vlies to match the old finish, thou it can be daunting at first. Tape up the vertical splash if you have any doubt of your skill.
If you have scotch brite around you can use that instead of vlies but make sure not to use it directly on your hookit pad, it will eat the hooks right off. spray 90 /contact cement a old sandpaper pad on one side and then use it, your pad will thank you. red scotch brite is about vlies 280 and gray is vlies 800. Vlies comes with velour on it already.
Don't rush it, its not a hard job but it takes time and patience to do a good job and not backtrack all the time.
I can put a refinish pack of supplies together for you if you let me know about how much tops you have to do.
The pad that came on you rotex is fine for the job and I assume you'll use the vacuum to keep the dust sucked up unless you do vlies wet.
Feel free to call or pm me if you have any questions
Regards
Bill

 

[butzla]

Bill,  Sounds quite a bit more involved than I thought it would be.  The advice you've given me is invaluable.  The risk of damaging the backsplash never occured to me.  Is the plastic guard that snaps on rotex no help to you in that area?

I do have a cooktop.  I built  and installed these cabinets in '96 but I had subbed out the countertops.  I don't remember how the cooktop attaches.  I do recall seeing them use silver tape.  How would I go about removing or raising the cooktop?

Also,  there's an island with a corian bar sink that's been very difficult to clean, even by hand.  It's no where near white these days.  My plumber/neighbor hooked up the drains and he hadn't done any corain installs before so he used good old plumbers putty around drain baskets.  (I learned later white silicone caulk is the method of choice.)  Anyhoo,  you can see what looks like bleeding from the putty die around drain basket.  Do you think if I remove baskets, I'll be able to clean them up?  I know I'm not going to be able to get my Rotex 150 in there.  Do you have any advice on how best approach this?  I recall seeing on tv someone using small polishers that chuck in a drill, like woodturners use. 

If I had to do it again,  I'd never use corian sinks.  They chip too easily from pots and are high maintenance to keep clean.  We have calphalon aluminum pots and they constantly leave gray skuff marks that need soft scrubbing.  Nothing beats stainless steel  IMHO.

Bill, I can't thank you enough for the advice, I will take you up on the sandpaper offer.  And also if you sell any means to refinish sinks, I'd also be interested in that too.  For all the work this will be,  I think it's best to hold off until after I have cabinets painted.  Unless you think it's better to do it the other way around.  I have 14 linear ft. of counter (24" deep) and island measures 30 x 60".  I subtracted for cooktop but not for sinks.  If I did my guzzintas right that's a little over 40 sq. ft.  You can pm me a quote if you like or post here.  Thanks again.
PS  I have 220g brilliant are you sure that's ok?  If so I would just need 280 and 360g Titan plus the vlies.

 

[Bill in seattle]

Its not that hard, just time consuming like I said. The guard will help but I still don't always trust them. They sit up a little and will allow it to bump into cooktops or topmounts that stick up a bit. I'd rather protect a finished end or splash than to trust my hand, one opps costs more than time and money. The customer likes to see you protect their goods.
Most cooktops are held in place by friction or two screws from the underside wedging it in. loosen them up/out and lift strait up. I have some 4x4 blocks that I prop it up a few inches to let the sander in, or if it allows stand the cooktop on edge back down in the cabinet or wiggle it in diagonal. You could disconnect it and take it out too.
Corian and stainless sinks are all I prefer. If you have had yours for +-12 years you have done well and I wouldn't put it down so far. The problem people have had is they are afraid to clean it. Most people don't want to hurt it so gunk builds up over time. Get in there with abrasive cleansers like comet. Put a little bleach and scour that thing down. Use sandpaper and or red/green scotchbrites. If you have some nicks or scratches you can sand most out. A es 125 works well to get  in there on smaller sinks or good ole elbow grease. plumbers putty was a no no. Take out the drain and clean it all away, use 120/150g abrasive and sand if necessary. I call it a good power scrubing.  Most other sinks would be thrashed by now too and you'd be replacing, not scouring it out. Stainless can be buffed back to life as well but dings and dents will still show. Aluminum will gray mark everything, you just don't notice it on stainless as much thou thats what tends to dull them down most over time.
220g brilliant is fine I use both titan and brilliant equally thou titan is better in the higher grits. The biggest difference between titan and brilliant is the stearate coating on the titan which helps it not load up doing paints and plastic type materials and a latex rubber backing which helps hold the abrasives on when sanding contours. You should not use titan on wood as the stearate can clog the pores of the wood and cause finishing problems later. The brilliant has a different coating which is more of a anti-static to repel dust to keep it from loading.
I would get your tops ship shape before you repaint just in case so you don't have to touch up on the paint.

Bill