Which drill?

[SurfNorway]

I was looking into picking up a new drill to compliment the CXS after getting rid of my CDD12.

Not wanting to keep replacing stuff and buying new batteries, I figured a corded drill would be a good option. There's the Quadrills - DR 18/4 and PD 20/4, which seem identical except for the percussion function, and the DR 20 which stands alone as a big, extremely torquey drill.

I have to admit I'm very sceptical of the percussion function, it doesn't seem to be suited to concrete like a hammer drill/SDS, nor is it an impact drill adding extra axial torque for screwing, so I'm not sure what it's for besides noisemaking. There are few if any reviews (the few out there are the ProTool version, no idea if Festool has changed anything except the colors when they rebranded them), so I figured why not ask here.

Use will be around the house, helping friends build stuff, remodelling, construction, doing work on cars, etc. Primarily wood and metal drilling, and as a secondary screwdriver alongside the CXS. I like to buy things once, and get something that will tackle pretty much anything I throw at it. For cement I can always rent a hammer drill.  I'm sure any of the listed models would be fine, but wanted to hear the opinions of the fine poeple here to help me decide.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and advice.

 

[DB10]

Hi and Wellcome,
  I'm not a great lover of corded drills, apart from an old Hilti drill I keep for masonry.
Since the introduction of Li-ion batteries about eight years ago I only use cordless drills as the batteries are so reliable and I just don't see the point of having power leads getting in the way.
  How about a T18, C18 or PDC to complement your CXS. I know it means buying batteries but once you own some 18v batteries it will be easier to purchase other Festool cordless tools like a Carvex jigsaw or TSC track saw or anything that might take your fancy or come in useful in the future.

 

[Kev]

[welcome] also [smile]

I can't agree more on cordless with DB10. I've got some amazing corded drills and most haven't been out of their Systainers!

Cordless all the way.

 

[M.Michot]

[welcome] also [smile]

I can't agree more on cordless with DB10. I've got some amazing corded drills and most haven't been out of their Systainers!

Cordless all the way.

How is it possible for you to know your drills are amazing if you have never used them, strange comment in my view

 

[Birdhunter]

My drill inventory includes the CSX, C12, TI15, and T18.

I use the CSX and the T18 the most by far. The TI18 gets used only when I need to drive lag bolts or big screws into very hard wood.

There have been a few times when the T18 didn't have enough torque and I needed the TI15's impact power to get the job done.

The T18 is amazingly powerful and its ergonomics are excellent. It handles like a much smaller drill. The right angle drive and the offset drive attachments are great enhancements.

 

[SurfNorway]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

The thing is that with a battery powered drill, it will end up reaching it's EOL relatively rapidly as battery and other technology moves on. Even finding compatible batteries in 4-5 years will be a challenge. A corded drill, as long as there's power nearby (and there's almost always power nearby) will last essentially the owners lifetime if it's not abused. I'm pretty sure that new battery tech and voltage standards will appear well before (and many times over) the country changes from 110vAC to something else...  [cool]. I don't need/want to buy new stuff just to buy new stuff (crazy as that sounds here, lol).

While I have a lot of Festool/Festo gear (circle saw, jigsaw, router, various sanders, domino, drills, syslite, dust extractor, ++ more), pretty much all of it is corded, and functions fine for my use. Even if I were on-site installing stuff, there's power there too, and the cord never seems to get in the way (probably because of the slick way the vacuum hoses integrate the power cord). Having the CXS for mobile use and as a lightweight handy tool in hard to reach places, or thrown in a bag on the way somewhere else is great, but I don't need that for all my tools.

After checking out the Carvex Li-Ion I honestly can't say it's an improvement over my Trion 300, and the Trion will run for hours, days, or years if needed - it's corded.

I did look at the T18, and it was my dealer who suggested a corded drill as an alternative. It's cheaper and will basically never wear out. I like the idea of buying things once, instead of multiple times. Especially wrt high-quality vs el-cheapo gear, although in this case all options are very high-quality.

No one uses corded stuff? Am I becoming a luddite?  [scared]

 

[NHSP759]

I've got the T18 and love it. Works great with my CXS. For other Non Festool drills, I have the Dewalt 20v hammer DCD985 and the Bosch 18v drill DDH181x with active response to prevent me from breaking my wrist.

 

[CrazyLarry]

No one uses corded stuff? Am I becoming a luddite?  [scared]

Only you can decide, but if you look at 10 /12v for assembly, 18v for most carpentry / substrate stuff and 36V for SDS / hammer the only space really left for corded is diamond core drilling (even there wet diamond drilling porcelain can be done with 36V over and over on one charge) Chasing and chiseling you probably want corded for really long runs.

Cordless has come a long way since those annoying NiCDs

 

[Kev]

[welcome] also [smile]

I can't agree more on cordless with DB10. I've got some amazing corded drills and most haven't been out of their Systainers!

Cordless all the way.

How is it possible for you to know your drills are amazing if you have never used them, strange comment in my view

I use my amazing psychic powers and draw on the collective experience of all living things.

I also speak figuratively ... you miss out on a lot of life's' texture when you can only interpret things literally, many things must seem very strange to you !!

For the black and white minded, when you have a range of excellent cordless tools at hand, the prospect of unwinding a cord and and extension lead seriously detracts from the experience of possibly slicing through a piece of material milliseconds faster.

Since the BHC, both of my hammer drills have remained in "reserve". The PDC has sent my other mains drills into hiding.

I can imagine anything other than the most serious of heavy duty hammer drills or similar becoming a rarity in the not too distant future.

 

[DB10]

No one uses corded stuff? Am I becoming a luddite?  [scared]

As the kids would say, you are an analog guy living in a digital world, the way I look at is, Life's hard enough out there without making it any harder on yourself.

 

[SurfNorway]

Is 18v going to be strong enough to drill out broken (steel) bolts in a chassis and through large framing timber/carpentry?

My CDD12 lastet 10 years before I got rid of it, which isn't bad, although I noticed that some of the DeWalt cordless offerings passed it by the last few years, and were able to tackle things it couldn't.

Of course, 18v is a lot bigger than 12v...

No one uses corded stuff? Am I becoming a luddite?  [scared]

Only you can decide, but if you look at 10 /12v for assembly, 18v for most carpentry / substrate stuff and 36V for SDS / hammer the only space really left for corded is diamond core drilling (even there wet diamond drilling porcelain can be done with 36V over and over on one charge) Chasing and chiseling you probably want corded for really long runs.

Cordless has come a long way since those annoying NiCDs

 

[SurfNorway]

Bump.  [wink]

Corded/cordless aside - PDC/DRC or T/C18? Again, I'm looking for one big heavy duty drill to tackle a wide range of jobs, drilling wood, beams, steel plate and broken screws (cars/trucks), and screwing in fasteners in wood and metal.

I'm not 100% clear on why I would choose one line/series over the other (and both the PDC/DRC appear to be available in corded/cordless versions, should I decide against the suggestions so far to stick with corded). The T18/C18 are "traditional" cordless drills with adjustable torque setting, the PDC/DRC are "Quadrills" with torque settings and a 4 speed gearbox with unusually high speed offerings (about 4k rpm). The PDC/DRC are essentially battery powered versions of the PD 20/4 and DR 18/4 that I've already asked about.

Since the thread took an abrupt turn at "corded vs cordless - by all means go cordless!", let's get back to which drill would be best as an all-round tackle-anything option. I had a CDD12 that was my "everything" drill, I rented/borrowed if I needed  something for concrete or other special applications. Now I've passed the CDD12 on to it's next owner and picked up a CXS (amazing little thing), and want something to compliment it at the other end of the spectrum.

Well..?

 

[Kev]

I have both the PDC18/4 and the PD20/4. I can't recall the last time I used the PD20. You realise the fact that ultimately you'll come across a job that is bigger than something you'll buy one day and seem prepared to hire/borrow, so why no go with the PDC18/4 now?

My CXS and PDC combined get probably 90+% of the use ... the other 8 hardly see action.

I personally do not see a T18/C18 as an "all rounder". I ditched the T18 for the PDC, but did go with a C15 (which offers surgical control over power).

Only you can make a call on the convenience of a corded v's cordless drill, for all we know your habit could be to work in the same spot with a corded drill plugged in all the time ... but that would make you very rare! You do have the CXS to get about with.

My suggestion? Buy a boat.

 

[SurfNorway]

Thanks Kev,

your reply helps. I don't want to continue the corded vs cordless debate (but yes, I'm almost always within 7m of an outlet, and the PD 20/4 has a 7.5m cable, and yes, I can absolutely see the advantage of having a cordless to take anywhere and use without having to think about power or messing with the cord).

I think the basic question boils down to T18+3 vs PDC/DRC Quadrill. They are two different styles of drills, and it isn't clear (to me at least) how one is "better" than another, or more suited to certain applications than another.

The fact that you swapped the T18 for a PDC18 is interesting. To be honest, I expect that most of my drilling will be done with the CXS as far as I can get away with it - it's small, light and performs beyond what one would expect from it's size. But when I need something for heavy duty jobs, or where the CXS just won't cut it (or when I'm being helped by the kids), I want to have a second drill available, and finding something that is a good match & compliments the CXS is what I'm after.

Looking through a few other threads comparing the T series to the PDC/DRC series, it seems that the PDC offers a bit more flexibility, torque and power along with the higher speeds, and doesn't really weigh all that much more. If the ergonomics and balance are similar to the T18, it seems like a better option, and one that will probably find a wider range of use.

So about that boat, are we talking motorboat, or sailboat?  [big grin]

I have both the PDC18/4 and the PD20/4. I can't recall the last time I used the PD20. You realise the fact that ultimately you'll come across a job that is bigger than something you'll buy one day and seem prepared to hire/borrow, so why no go with the PDC18/4 now?

My CXS and PDC combined get probably 90+% of the use ... the other 8 hardly see action.

I personally do not see a T18/C18 as an "all rounder". I ditched the T18 for the PDC, but did go with a C15 (which offers surgical control over power).

Only you can make a call on the convenience of a corded v's cordless drill, for all we know your habit could be to work in the same spot with a corded drill plugged in all the time ... but that would make you very rare! You do have the CXS to get about with.

My suggestion? Buy a boat.

 

[AlexThePalex]

About 4 years ago I went along with my nephew to buy him a Festool drill. He really liked my T15 and is a Festool fan so he wanted one also. When we were in the store the salesman persuaded him to get the Protool PDC 18/4 instead.

He gave me the PDC for a while to thoroughly test it, and so I did. I liked the drill mostly because it was so fast. 3800 rpm really speeds up your work when you're drilling or screwing. While it didn't have the control the T15 has, it was a very smooth drill anyway.

Now I'm painting a house of my nephew and he has his tools there so I am using the PDC 18/4 again. I can't believe how crap it is now, like an old rustbucket. The motor sounds and feels like a rusty landmower, the switches on top are very hard to move, and taking the battery on and off needs some serious effort.   

In contrast, my T15, which is 4 years older and probably used a lot more, is still in the same condition as when it was new.

Not sure if my nephew seriously mistreated the PDC or if it's the build quality. It doesn't look bad on the outside, you can just feel it's bad on the inside.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

About 4 years ago I went along with my nephew to buy him a Festool drill. He really liked my T15 and is a Festool fan so he wanted one also. When we were in the store the salesman persuaded him to get the Protool PDC 18/4 instead.

He gave me the PDC for a while to thoroughly test it, and so I did. I liked the drill mostly because it was so fast. 3800 rpm really speeds up your work when you're drilling or screwing. While it didn't have the control the T15 has, it was a very smooth drill anyway.

Now I'm painting a house of my nephew and he has his tools there so I am using the PDC 18/4 again. I can't believe how crap it is now, like an old rustbucket. The motor sounds and feels like a rusty landmower, the switches on top are very hard to move, and taking the battery on and off needs some serious effort.   

In contrast, my T15, which is 4 years older and probably used a lot more, is still in the same condition as when it was new.

Not sure if my nephew seriously mistreated the PDC or if it's the build quality. It doesn't look bad on the outside, you can just feel it's bad on the inside.

Hm,interesting!

I'm looking for a new drill now (for heavy duty) to add to my CXS (light duty), and my choice is between T18 and PDC18.

Looks like PDC can't withstand a heavy/rough work?

To bad.

How is T18 compared?

P.S. May be this stuff is more heavy duty? Who knows... -

 

[AlexThePalex]

Looks like PDC can't withstand a heavy/rough work?

How is T18 compared?

Well, as I said, I don't know for sure how my nephew treated his PDC. This is just my observation now I see the drill again after all those years.

The theory was, the PDC is more for rough site work while the Festool T drills were more suited for a shop based environment.

I also had a second T15 for a while, which I bought heavily used from a contractor. It was still in a very good shape despite the heavy use. It was ugly on the outside, but had a strong inner beauty and ran as smooth as my first T15.

The T18 is exactly like the T15, with just 10% more torque.

My suggestion? Buy a boat.

Any ideas about a good one? I'm still trying to decide if a second heli pad is really all what it's hyped to be.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Thats what I'm saying,looks like PDC just CAN"T withstand a more rough work,for what it is designed.
And a T line Festool Drills is more like for a shop work,like you said

Looks like PDC can't withstand a heavy/rough work?

How is T18 compared?

Well, as I said, I don't know for sure how my nephew treated his PDC. This is just my observation now I see the drill again after all those years.

The theory was, the PDC is more for rough site work while the Festool T drills were more suited for a shop based environment.

I also had a second T15 for a while, which I bought heavily used from a contractor. It was still in a very good shape despite the heavy use. It was ugly on the outside, but had a strong inner beauty and ran as smooth as my first T15.

The T18 is exactly like the T15, with just 10% more torque.

.

 

[Holmz]

I got a little Mafell A10M which has 34nM of torque.
It is pretty handy.

I use a corded drill for bigger stuff and when I am not on a ladder or supine on the floor.
The Panasonic is highly rated for screws but I could not borrow one to try it.
Metabo is also mostly the same as the A10M, the 18V versions are larger.
Half my drilling is screws and small stuff, the other 1/2 is cement and Ramset cement bolts.
So the 18V drills are in the middle... Bigger than I need for small stuff and most of the big stuff I have boots on the ground rather than a ladder.

 

[DB10]

As boats are far more interesting than drills, my vote would also be to buy a boat.