Which Guide Rail Square Should I Buy?

[Klemm]

I love the squares. I have one issue. When using the square with long rail I find it a little fiddly. I find there is a little "sping" in the rail, not the square. Is there a technique that I am missing?

[member=2242]tallgrass[/member] - gosh, I'm embarassed to just now see your post. (I found and hopefully fixed a setting in my FOG profile so I don't msis notifiations)
Perhaps we can get Tom Bader or another similarly qualified heavy FESTOOL track saw user to help out on your "Springy guide rail" question.

Hans

 

[tallgrass]

IT is not a huge deal. It is something I notice with the longer rails. If the rail is in full contact with the cutting surface than applying pressure to the "square" does not necessarily square the rail due to deflection in the extrusion. This is not a design flaw or a difference in the engineering of your square, simply something that I would chalk up to technique. One that I am working to figure out.

 

[Sanderxpander]

As I said above, it's best to only lower the rail on the surface after pushing the square against the workpiece. Keep holding the square in place with a little pressure before dropping the rail (and the anti slip strips) down on the workpiece.

 

[travisj]

IT is not a huge deal. It is something I notice with the longer rails. If the rail is in full contact with the cutting surface than applying pressure to the "square" does not necessarily square the rail due to deflection in the extrusion. This is not a design flaw or a difference in the engineering of your square, simply something that I would chalk up to technique. One that I am working to figure out.

I found that by having the square on the far side of the rail, I can pull the square and rail into position and then gently lay the rail down while applying slight pressure to keep everything tight.  If that makes sense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tallgrass]

Interesting. I will have to give that a try.

 

[tjbnwi]

I have found on the long rails if you push down on the entry side of the rail and release it the 3000 rail will relax.

Tom

 

[Templedentist]

Just received my TSO guide rail square accessory and have tested and tried it for the entire day today. It is very consistent in making obtuse angle cuts. If I shim one side of the square, I can get perfect 90 degree cuts, but I feel I shouldn’t have to do that. I checked everything. Made sure the edge I was registering off was perfectly straight, no sawdust on the edge of the board or square, no sawdust between the square and the guide rail. Even checked the interface between the square and board using a flashlight from underneath to check for gaps. Leaf gauge checked the interface as well. Lowered rail down on the board while keeping the square against the board edge. Checked to make sure the guide rail wasn’t bowed. I give up. Seems others are having success with it. Maybe I’m too picky, but more than a 1/16th off over 16 inches is too far off for me.

While figuring out the problem I discovered only one square that I own is still accurate. Woodpeckers and Starrett squares are off quite a bit. Losing my mind.

 

[TSO_Products]

[member=72688]Templedentist[/member] - reach out to us so we can help you troubleshoot and find the root cause.

email us directly with the name under which your GRS-16 or GRS-16 PE was ordered so we can find you in our database and get in touch with you this weekend.

Mention your FOG handle so we can connect the dots.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=72688]Templedentist[/member],

I'll start by telling you I test TSO products, not only me but the guys in the shop.

That out of the way, where are you located? Asking because at times a second set of eyes helps. If you're near Colorado Springs or Northwest Indiana you're welcome to come by the shops and we'll see if we can help.

We run 4 of the TSO squares. Not a one is off.

Short story made long----

I've been back home the last few weeks, recieved a call this past Tuesday----pieces are off by 1/16" in 22-1/2" The guys checked their technique nothing changed----must be shop gremlins....it wasn't.

Just before I left another cutting table was made. This meant more rails added to the mix. Well, one of them (a 1080) is off at the entry end by a few thousanths of and inch. Not a big deal when marking and droping the rail, but a nightmare when using the TSO square.

I've run into this before (could have been the same rail,it has now been sprayed with red paint), the guys had not. They thought it was them. It wasn't.

Not sure which rail you're using but I offer;

Try sliding the square up the rail about 12", make some test cuts. See if the problem goes away.

Make sure when you set the rail, the grip strips aren't causeing the rail to bind on the work surface.

When checking for square, check parallel and diagonal with at measuring device. Squares are not always the best tool for checking square.

Tom

 

[Templedentist]

During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

 

[tjbnwi]

During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

Todays capital....

One other thing, straightline one edge without the square, use this as your reference edge fir the rest of the cuts.

Tom

 

[Mike Goetzke]

During the testing yesterday, I did move the TSO square up the rail and tested again and again. I have a lot of rail to work with since it is 75”. I’m using the REQ 55 saw. Also, every cut was performed with clamps in place on both ends of the rail. All the products are new: the saw, rail, TSO square, saw blade, 3/4” baltic birch plywood (lol) and clamps. I made sure to lift the rail and set it down instead of pushing it, so there is no rebound in the grip strips. I’m going to get ahold of TSO right now, but I wanted to answer your questions. BTW I’m in the Houston area, so if anyone is around me and I can’t figure this out, I’ll trade toilet paper for showing me how to use the TSO square to get accurate results  [big grin]

[member=72688]Templedentist[/member]

I've been using the TSO GRS-16 PE for a little while now.

I was disgusted when going to use it the first time - it was as I recall 3/16" off for a x-cut of 48".  Ended up my 55" rail wasn't straight (Makita). I went and checked my other rails and the 55" had to be replaced the others were fine.

Technique is important too (Tom and TSO were helpful on this). Shake and wiggle the rail and square as you approach your line. This assures the square is against the edge of the wood. I also have purchased the TPG parallel guide system - much more accurate than matching anti-chip to cut line.

Look closely, maybe even magnified, at the edges of the GRS. I bought a GRS-16 to use as a second square for the TPG and I had squaring issues using it independently. Was frustrated like you. Ends up there was, per Hans, a bit of residual manufacturing material (looked like dry glue) on a couple edges. Easy to scrape off with a fingernail. Has worked perfectly since.

Mike

 

[Templedentist]

Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

 

[Michael Kellough]

That’s good! Make something.

 

[Sanderxpander]

If I converted that correctly that's one third of a millimeter over a length of 1500mm or so. That's nothing short of amazing to me considering you're manually pushing a powered saw through a chunk of wood. Wood will bend and warp much more than that and even expand or contract from moisture levels. We're not laser cutting acrylic here.

 

[Templedentist]

That’s what I needed to hear. Time to get to work. Thanks

 

[tjbnwi]

We shoot for [and get] 0.005 in 48" or less with the rail squares.

The PG's are set to 0.005 parellel or less over 96". 

Nothing worse than trying to assemble with poorly cut parts.

The tolerances above are why the miss cut pieces were noticed. they're so used to looking at humanly perfect parts that 1/16" out in 22.5" jumped out at them without taking a tape measure out.

Tom

 

[gunnyr]

Follow-up question: what kind of accuracy should I aim for? The most recent test using the 5 cut method resulted in an accuracy of 0.0124” (or 1/80th of an inch) over 60”. I think my technique is improving. The video I was sent showed the demonstrator achieving 0.0038” (or 1/260th of an inch) over 60”. Should I stop fussing and make something or keep practicing. I’m building large objects like bunkbeds, dressers, etc...

I’d like to thank Hans for reaching out to me and making sure all my questions and concerns were addressed. I’ll be buying more TSO products in the future. This is the type of company I feel proud to support.

We ain't building rocket ships here!  I have to guard against this sort of perfectionism, if I'm not careful I get wrapped up in it and end up doing nothing....

Be careful with TSO products; like Systainers they don't do well in the dark, they tend to multiply! [big grin]  I strongly recommend the Parallel Guide System to go with the Guide Rail Square, it makes cross cuts fast, accurate, and repeatable.

 

[guthrie_m@earthlink.net]

The TSO GRS-16PE and the TPG parallel guides have been a life saver for me.  I recommend all of TSO’s products. 

 

[acarl720]

The longest rails in this system are 50" as shown on their website.  What if I wanted something longer than 50"?  How would I do this?