Which one is stronger?

[rjwz28]

I'm making a framed glass door.  Which joint is stronger if one is?  I will be using the Festool Domino for the loose tenons and the door will be 66 " tall.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[waynelang2001]

I dont think there is much of a strength difference, but for me the longer rails version looks better. And it will be alot easier to clamp up.

 

[Alan m]

id imagine the first would be stronger as all the weight would be pulling the domino against the side of the slot . in the second it is pulling the domino out of the hole.
visually i prefer the second

 

[Kev]

NOT the first ... the second.

Don't like the first at all ...

 

[barnowl]

The one on the right.

Similar in concept to a frame and panel door, where the stiles are full height, and the rails are mortised into them.

Gravity acts on the mechanical strength of the horizontal tenon, rather than on pulling apart a vertical tenon, as would be the case on the left design.

To prove it, imagine the assembly dry fit with no glue.

The one on the left would fail. The one on the right would not.

 

[Timtool]

It totally depends on what you are doing, if you are making a door for a piece of furniture then the right option is the way to go.
If you are making an exterior door or window then the left option is the best because you have no end grain on the bottom to soak up humidity and rot.
Ans when lap joints are used, the stile tenon can be cut a few mm shorter so that it doesn't touch the ground, in a window this shorter tenon is hidden by the rail laps.

 

[Ujipster]

This is not the same but similar for point of discussion. A garage door would use the first construction. We also make aluminum doors with very heavy white laminated glass and we use the first construction. On longer panels I personally think the long top/bottom channels look better.

T

 

[woodguy7]

From a traditional door manufacturer, I would always go option 2.  Option 1 looks naff as well with all that end grain showing.

 

[woodguy7]

Rob, when you say you will be using the Domino for this door, I presume you mean the big one & not the 500 ?

 

[fdengel]

Rob, when you say you will be using the Domino for this door, I presume you mean the big one & not the 500 ?

Not likely -- we can't get the XL here yet.

 

[mikeneron]

The one on the right.

Similar in concept to a frame and panel door, where the stiles are full height, and the rails are mortised into them.

Gravity acts on the mechanical strength of the horizontal tenon, rather than on pulling apart a vertical tenon, as would be the case on the left design.

To prove it, imagine the assembly dry fit with no glue.

The one on the left would fail. The one on the right would not.

The dry fit part in your answer summed up my thoughts exactly...great post.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

Rob, when you say you will be using the Domino for this door, I presume you mean the big one & not the 500 ?

Not likely -- we can't get the XL here yet.

You can in about 10 weeks!

 

[rjwz28]

Rob, when you say you will be using the Domino for this door, I presume you mean the big one & not the 500 ?

I will be using the 500 and using multiple tenons.  Any suggestions?

 

[andvari]

They are equal strength, but are anisotropically different. The one in the left is stronger in the horizontal direction because that is across the tenons, the one on the left is stronger in the vertical direction.

Which would be better in practice depends on how the door is used. If it is pulled hard the left might be better. If not the right might be better.

 

[woodguy7]

This has been talked about to death but I would definitely say the doms for the 500 won't be big enough.  You are only plunging in 25mm !  Asking for trouble.  Wait for the 700 & treat yourself because I believe it is the best tool they have made to date !

 

[RC]

So if one would be building storage benches out of 150mm x 22mm planks and 2"x2", a terrace dining table & chairs for 14 and livingroom dining highback chairs for 12 would you rather use the Domizilla vs the 500?

I'm asking because I haven't been able to make up my mind on which would be a better one to have since can't afford buying both at the moment.

 

[Kev]

So if one would be building storage benches out of 150mm x 22mm planks and 2"x2", a terrace dining table & chairs for 14 and livingroom dining highback chairs for 12 would you rather use the Domizilla vs the 500?

I'm asking because I haven't been able to make up my mind on which would be a better one to have since can't afford buying both at the moment.

Another way of asking the question would be "do you ever see yourself using the smallest tenons?"  [smile]

... but if the high back chairs have a lot of detail - the DF500 would probably be a gem.

 

[RC]

Well, now that's a great question that I don't have a definitive answer.

I haven't done M&T joints so I don't really have an idea how thick dominoes I should be shooting to join chair feet to frame. The design of the chairs will be simple with not many slim bits.

What I'm unsure of is also if one should rather use a single large domino per joint or two smaller ones? What would be considered best practise?

Not planning on building cabinets any time soon.

 

[tiralie]

I will be using the 500 and using multiple tenons.  Any suggestions?

Rob:
If you can't wait for the 700 as Woodguy suggests I would cut your own mortise and tenons.
How thick and wide are you making the stile and rails? Anything less than 1 1/4" and 2 1/2 -3" wide and you will see a lot of flex and possibly shattered or broken glass.
I do not believe that the largest tenons that the 500 can cut are not large enough to support the weight of the glass, the rails and stiles. The torque involved in opening and closing (occasional slam) put a lot of stress on joints so a traditional M&T joint would be preferable. Hopefully you are using tempered glass for this door as well.
I wouldn't use the 500 on this project.
Good luck.
Tim

 

[Kev]

Well, now that's a great question that I don't have a definitive answer.

I haven't done M&T joints so I don't really have an idea how thick dominoes I should be shooting to join chair feet to frame. The design of the chairs will be simple with not many slim bits.

What I'm unsure of is also if one should rather use a single large domino per joint or two smaller ones? What would be considered best practise?

Not planning on building cabinets any time soon.

I'd only resort to multiple tenons if ... (1) I didn't have a big enough domino available or (2) if the profiles I was joining were complex and it made more sense to use more than one.

Anyway - looking at your build list, the terrace dining table would be the only likely challenge for the 500 ... IMHO