Which order would you purchase the following kit?

RC

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
1,173
I'm in a sort of a weird situation that I can afford getting more Festoys for about 1k€ but can't decide what would be the most logical order (or sort of it's a no-brainer but I'll still ask.. [unsure])

  • Domino DF500 + Domino Systainer + select sipo tennons
  • Domino DF700 + Domino Systainer + select sipo tennons
  • Carvex Set + CXS promo Set (comes in SYS2 with storage lid + a set of Centrotec drillbits)
  • Rotex 90 & Rotex 150 + sand paper

or a mixture of the above.

My next years or twos project portfolio that I'll be working on looks like this:
  • Dining table, backyard exposed to rain - current design is an oval table with a boat deck-top on a rectangular centre foot i.e. this type of foot and this type of table top
  • Chairs x 12, backyard exposed to rain - current design still undecided - most likely a simple stackable wooden chair like this.
  • Storage box x2, backyard exposed to humidity but not direct rain under balcony - design will be a simple storage box with a slightly curved seat/lid for comfortable sitting/sunbathing and storage of toys, etc. something like this but obviously made out of wood and longer since the larger bench needs to be 3500mm long and L-shaped and the shorter one is about 2000mm long as well.
  • Storage box, balcony exposed to direct rain - design will be a similar to the other two downstairs but need to be more rain repellent but at the same time well aired to dry out.
  • Chair x12, living room / dining table - design would be something like this, but in a simplified form i.e. I don't know how to bend wood to such neat curves and I would probably do away with the many smaller stiles in the backrest and just have one or two there.
  • Sysport-sort of shelving under a flight of stairs for storing my Festoys, design will be very homegrown since the space is triangular - darned if I know how to get everything to fit  [embarassed] probably have to go with sliding shelves in dado grooves since 900mm long over extending drawer slides are silly expensive.
  • Bedside tables x 3, got an American style bed with triple matresses so I need to make taller bedside tables - idea would be something like this but in a more modern style without the excessive edge routing and cleaner lines.
  • Bookshelf modules x20 for the library, if I actually become good enough after all that practice above, like the big bookshelf in the topmost picture but in wooden oil finish

In priority order I would say first I'll solve the tool storage problem and then come the outside storage boxes and outside dining table & chairs and only after that workout I'll continue to the finer furniture for the house. Huh, with that mouthful done back to my question and own mussings...

So I would presume that I should shell my cash on a Domino and a systainer of dominoes and most likely the DF500 would be a good fit for the inside furniture work as well as the beech dominoes actually lasting there as well. I presume one would have to buy sipo dominoes for the outside stuff to hack being stored outside 365 days a year in direct rain, snow and sleet (the latter two usually under a cover for the winter though). What I'm dubious about is that is the DF500's largest 10x50 domino size too small for the outside boxes and possibly seats?

The no-brainer part I mention above is that since I have similar tools to do the work of everything else but the Dominoes and one or the other of them would be a logical move first, but one gets T-loc fever when money's burning in your pocket so replacing a bunch of other tools with shinies sings a siren call to me with the "more is better" -song.  [embarassed]
 
I know that eventually I'll just get the lot but don't have that deep pockets at the moment  [big grin]

Any insight about using the Domino joints outside is a good idea in the first place and could the beech dominoes last there as well as insight on which size of Domino would be the best fit with the above list of tasks are appreciated as well as any other observation on my rather ambitious project portfolio.

++ Reiska

P.S. I'm planning on the outside materials being CC-pressure treated stock for boxes & chairs & table box leg , water resistant ply for the tabletop base and a suitable hard-wood for the top strips and edges.

P.P.S. Sorry for stupidly asking some of the above in someone elses thread about door joinery - didn't mean to hijack that thread  [embarassed]
 
I think that I would probably go for the DF500 set with the sanders after that.

Because the DF500 is far more usefull unless your main use is big items like heavy doors. The DF700 is not very good for stock under 24mm thick (8mm domino) the 500 is ok down to half that. Also there is nothing on the market yet that can compete with the Dominos.

The Carvex has mixed reviews, though the CXS seems to be well liked.
 
Jerome said:
I think that I would probably go for the DF500 set with the sanders after that...

Agree 100%

Your upcoming projects are crying out loud: "BUY A DOMINO!"  [drooling]

And I'd also go for the DF500 because of the size and versatility.
Unfortunately I (still) don't own either but I've tried both of them and the DF700 is a "big heavy bully" for making large stuff.  [tongue]
 
I have a number of cedar benches and small tables made with sipo dominos.  They have been outside for several years and are still looking very good.  One bench was made with traditional m&T prior to the Domino and the others with the Domino.  The Domino made it significantly easier/faster with no difference in quality.
 
Since we still don't have the Carvex or the Domino XL here in the third world North America, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, but that's never stopped me before. [embarassed]

In my opinion, there is nothing on your project list that the Domino 500 cannot do.  I build chairs with Dominoes and they survive great abuse.  By the way, the curves on the chairs are easy to do with bent lamination, just ask around here when you get ready.  Many of us use this technique.  I would hold off on the big domino.  You can make wider mortises with the small Domino (see Paul Marcel's recent post for the technique) or simply use multiple Dominoes in the joint.  The systainer with the domino assortment and the cutters is a bargain, and frankly it is almost impossible to know which tenons you will use, so its good to have the assortment.

Do you have the saw and the vacuum already?
 
I like the outdoor chairs you're thinking of, but the indoor ones look to be a real challenge (they are certainly DF500 and much skill jobbies).

You could probably get away with just 2 sizes of SIPO dominoes and maybe some 750 lengths of the larger ones the DF500 can cut for - that with the DF 500 set and the domino beech assortment would cover most. Also consider the  the SCG http://www.dominoguide.com/

As long as you get the good one - you'll like the CARVEX - but think hard before you leap for the cordless one (I personally wouldn't).

CXS ... You haven't got one already ???

Love te RO 90 and RO 150 ... But you may want something else for those indoor chairs ... and I think an ETS150/3 would e a better buddy on the bookcases down the track - maybe with a DTS400.

I couldn't follow the link to see the type of top you're considering for the outdoor table - but I'd personally do something using slatted solid timber - think it would stand up to the elements well.

Kev
 
I think the Domino machines are really the game changers. Given your project list these are the real heavy hitters.

After that the RO 90 probably has the most utility over other tools you are likely to have.

As Kev mentioned the ETS 150/3 is an extremely good finish sander. Enough so that my first use of it was an epiphany. Depending on whether or not you have a heavier RO 150 type sander already I might consider it instead of the the RO 150.

 
I think that the Domino 500 would be a great choice for most of the projects you described, along with the tenon assortment.  If you needed larger tenons, you can always use a router until you can acquire a 700.  I think that the two Rotex sanders would be great choices of sander and I actually bought an RO90 specifically for sanding smaller curves on chairs.

Scot
 
Pff, you've got the CMS router insert and... a 1400 if I recall correct? You can do mortice and tenons with them easily and reasonably quickly too. I would get the Carvex with all it's goodies. It has served me very well  :) I'd have to admit though that sooner or later I'm in for a Domino too I guess. At our house renovation we are using a Kress biscuit jointer and NO, it's no Domino but YES it does the job (used on indoor window frames). And at the job site the guys we hire use their Makita jigsaws and oh boy am I happy with the Carvex. I also think it may be big time in your benefit as you could get a CMS insert for it too and it could replace most of your bandsaw jobs. Assuming you don't have one already that is.

Regards
 
Kev said:
CXS ... You haven't got one already ???

I couldn't follow the link to see the type of top you're considering for the outdoor table - but I'd personally do something using slatted solid timber - think it would stand up to the elements well.

Well, I've been happy enough with my trusty old Panasonic EY6409 with it's 3.5Ah batteries to shop for a Festo drill - the Panasonic is a nice and sturdy piece of kit itself but lacks corner capabilities [smile]

The top would be a classic white or black striped "mahogany" wood boat deck something like this.

I played with some design ideas last night in SketchUp and this is where I left off:

[attachthumb=#]
 
Mauri Motti said:
Pff, you've got the CMS router insert and... a 1400 if I recall correct? You can do mortice and tenons with them easily and reasonably quickly too. I would get the Carvex with all it's goodies. It has served me very well  :) I'd have to admit though that sooner or later I'm in for a Domino too I guess. At our house renovation we are using a Kress biscuit jointer and NO, it's no Domino but YES it does the job (used on indoor window frames). And at the job site the guys we hire use their Makita jigsaws and oh boy am I happy with the Carvex. I also think it may be big time in your benefit as you could get a CMS insert for it too and it could replace most of your bandsaw jobs. Assuming you don't have one already that is.

Yes, I recently bought an MFT/3, a CTL26 DC, a CMS-GE base + CMS-TS55 and CMS-OF inserts and have both a TS55 & OF1400 to mount in them. What I don't have for the CMS is a sliding table which I'm contemplating but still on the fence on that one. Just got delivery of clamping elements, Y-hose for the CMS, rail connectors and MFT-stabilizer pipes today...  [big grin]

I don't have any stationary machines at all since my "workshop" is mostly out on the backyard terrace and as a backup for rainy days in our housing complex hobby room (where you don't want to leave Festoys lying around unattended for someone to "borrow" - so everything needs to be portable).

Actually never thought of the Carvex in CMS as a bandsaw replacement - I've thought of it more as a clunky scroll saw replacement for the time being. The CMS plate for the Carvex would be on my shopping list very quickly if I ever did get one. I've been reasonably happy with my Makita jigsaw but having the CMS-insert + angle base + circle cutting gizmo + guiderail connectivity makes me want to ebay the Makita & get a Carvex.

Also I have a belt sander, a 125mm ROS, a linear (square pad) sander and a Fein Multimaster for corners which all suck at DC and constant paper blockage [sad] Maybe the CT will make a difference with them - the old Kärcher DC didn't...

One thing that has been bugging me a bit lately is my total lack of an jointer and planer or access to one - does everyone have one in their shops or do you use pre-dimensioned stock or some other trick that I should know of?

 
get the domino 500. you will love it.

a small portable thicknesser will help a lot. jointing is more of a problem . the ts55 will do that to a point.

dc on MM is usless.
 
Reiska said:
One thing that has been bugging me a bit lately is my total lack of an jointer and planer or access to one - does everyone have one in their shops or do you use pre-dimensioned stock or some other trick that I should know of?

A flat table, router sled and TS55 can work in place of a jointer and planer.  

I do prefer if the lumber yard can do it for me (thickness planing, I can square with TS55), as I have neither stationary machine either.  
 
I have a local supplier that will thickness a range of timbers to very accurate dimensions - but there's a real cost downside.

I'm thinking about the HL850 and SE-HL - replacing a big Toshiba that I rarely use.

I have the EHL65 and it's a little beauty.

No matter which way you go though - I believe "big machines" are the only way to go if you need to accurately size a lot of timber.

Sadly, reasonable quality jointer planers and thicknessers aren't that expensive in Oz - but, like yourself, they require space that I just don't have.
 
Had a chance to spend some time at the Festool importers demo room today and get hands-on experience with the tools on my list.

Thought I'd document my reactions to them here:

1. RO90DX: What a little handfull it was and the speed it stripped material with a 40 grit paper was phenomenal but just as suprising was the change and end result when switched into ROS-mode. It tried to run away from me on the first try but I got it tamed  [eek] Definitely a must have for the table project of mine which has narrow curved & contoured leg-surfaces to sand clear of lacquer.  [thumbs up]

2. RO150: More of a handfull and heavy to handle too. Definitely ment for people stripping large areas all day long so a bit of an overkill for my needs since I've only got that one table project which requires stripping of old stuff and the rest is building new from new materials and doing mainly finish sanding. Could be a great all-rounder if one would only get one sander, but I think everyone should have a RO90 anyway so you already have a Rotex-mode sander if one needs aggressive sanding only occationally.

3. ETS150/3: OMG - is the thing on?!? After the Rotexes I first thought I didn't power the ETS on at all - it literally just stood there spinning it's disk happily in one spot without even holding it but by the hose. And what a finish it whipped out of the roughed out 40 grip scraped wood in just two steps of 120 grit and 220 grit in seconds. Literally glass flat. Me want. [drooling]

Only negative thing was a rumor the Festool fellow let me on that there might be a replacement in the works along the lines of the Mirka Ceros i.e. smaller and lighter. Even he hadn't seen any pictures of it yet, but heard rumors about one being in the works. So to buy a new ETS or to wait and see if a new one will see the daylite...  [scratch chin]

4. Carvex Barrel grip, corded: Very comfortable, cuts well in my oppinion. Couldn't get the blade to wonder even cutting straight strips of the edge of a board of fir. What was disappointing was that all three demo Carvexes had the blade collet blocked with dust that the blades would not budge much less eject with the springloaded mechanism. Apparently a common problem if one does not take excellent care of cleaning & oiling the collet. Otherwise I felt right at home with the jigsaw after my Makita which is about identical sizewise.

5. Carvex Barrel grip, Battery: It is slightly longer than the corded version and alot heavier and especially back heavy. If you do alot of twisty-bendy cutting without a DC connected then the battery model makes sense. Otherwise I would just get the lighter corded model. Also I was told that even with the 18V battery you won't get tens of metres of cutting distance out of a battery. So if you want to cut more than then occational cut get the mains one.

6. Carvex handle grip, corded: Smallest lenghtwise but horribly tall with the handle towering miles above the table. I don't mind the narrowness of the handle, but the height makes it unconfortable to hold and handle on pieces attached to an MFT/3 top. I'm 187cm (just under 6ft 2in) tall and I need to lift my elbow to push the jigsaw from the handle. No bonus.

7. CXS promo set: Nice idea the storage lid SYS2DF that it comes in, middle box is filled with the bits & wood drill bits and there are dividers for the the lid boxen, the lid boxes are rather shallow like ~30mm deep. Inside there is the normal CXS set on a double layer insert. Under the drill insert there are three or four cubbies for storing the random bits, centrotec heads, etc. I guess you could stuff most of the installers kit in there with the drill thou not in an orderly fashion. Nice but I'm still a bit dubious about the normal motor with brushes - will it last. Angle attachment is a bit fiddly to put on but once on works fine. Sizewise this is a very comfortable screwdriver and no real overlap with my current Panasonic T-style & weight drill. Only other thing that comes even close is the C12 with the installers 1.5Ah battery and it's still alot bulkier than the CXS but does have a more powerfull induction motor... decicions...  [doh]

8. CS50/CMS-GE sliding table: Not as imposing as the CS70 slider, but seemed well enough built to turn the CMS-TS into a proper table saw.

9. CMS-PS insert: They had the insert equiped with a PS300 but it clamps into the insert with similar, but metal clamping blocks the TS55 is attached to the CMS-TS55 module. The PS400 is attached to the module with the base that doubles as the guiderail base. One might want to get a second one of those bases for ~20€ and just leave it clamped to the CMS insert and just swap bases rather than unscrew the base out of the module. You can plug your DC into the jigsaw normally, but you will get sawdust pileup on top of your work piece just like you would get scroll sawing and there is no blower with this one other than your lungs  [tongue] But cutting to a line with a little puffing and panting work and you don't need to peak between the machine to see your line. Nice for more intricate curved work and with a narrow blade work just as well as a scroll saw that uses pinned blades. One cannot tilt the jigsaw (PS400) in any way since the guiderail base doesn't have a single adjustable part in it (and has a little play on the rail as well). When I get a Carvex this will follow because I have the CMS already, but wouldn't be the reason to get a CMS in the first place.  

10. Domino DF500: Got the talk and got to plunge a few 5mm mortices with the demo model. Nothing to write home about since I've watched a few times Paul-Marcels vids about them. Felt at times that I knew more about the machine than the Festool sales guy and I've never had one in my hands before.  [scared] I was suprised how firmly you have to push with your front hand to get a successful mortice expecially into the face of a board - yes I screwed up my first try with the machine wondering here and there [embarassed]. What were my feelings after using it - well I know I want it, but when factoring in the price of the machine I must say that the ETS's WoW-factor/$ is waaaay better.

11. Festool toolie: The one they were using themselves has seen some serious use and didn't feel very sturdy anymore and the tools were hard to get out even with the green buttons and even harder to get to stay put folded away. I presume that was caused by excessive use. They closed just when I discovered the toolie and hence couldn't get one when the cashier was already closed and the personnel wanted to go to their TGIF beers, I guess [sad]

So what came out of all this? I guess I've revised my shoppinglist to swap the Rotex 150 for an ETS150/3 and decided to get the Domino, CXS, Carvex, CMS-PS, RO90DX and ETS150/3. Now if only Axmister hadn't sent out a 40th aniversary -10% discount voucher for any one item in todays email I would be looking for ways to convince my SO to grant me a 2.5k€ budget and get the lot, but I guess I'll have to first have a chat about getting her scroll saw from Ax first since I haven't seen any discounts on Excaliburs or Hegners before and this would nicely apply to one of those as well. Maybe I'll squeeze the Domino somehow in there  [big grin]

Edit: FYI: Just read the fineprint of the Axminster offer and it excludes Festools & Jet tools.
 
Ray,

Your last list of tools looks like a great start and since I have all but the CSX,  I'm sure that you'll be happy with your selection.  Happy shopping [big grin]
 
Something that replaces the ETS150/3  [scared] [eek]

Man - I've got paling injuries from sitting on the fence so long between ETS150/3 and ETS125 - now I hear this!

Problem is, from rumor to real Oz availability would be minimum of 9 months from today ... Probably 12+ months for the 110 volt variant for the NA guys.

(I've got to wait at least another 3 months for local availability of te Protool PDC 18-4, and that's already available in Europe now and it was about 6 months from stories of a new TS55 to Euro availability).

Urghhh  [sad]

 
Kev said:
Man - I've got paling injuries from sitting on the fence so long between ETS150/3 and ETS125 - now I hear this!

Waiting for a new model  [tongue] - I'm too old. I don't even buy green bananas any more.

 
Well I just took a full blown dive into coolaid  [embarassed]

Just ordered
- The CXS SYS2 Promo set (comes in SYS2-DF + some Centrotec drills and screw bits)
- Rotex RO90DX Promo (comes with hard pad)
- ETS 150/3 Promo (comes with hand sanding pad)
- Surfix Set
- Domino DF500 Set
- Domino Beech Systainer Set
- Systainer for 90mm abrasives
- Systainer for 150mm abrasives
- Granat 90mm in 80, 120, 220 and 320 100x packs (50x in 80) promo (Get a Festool towel / large 4 packs)
- Granat 150mm in 80, 120, 220 and 320 100x packs (50x in 80) promo (Get a Festool towel / large 4 packs)

Bye, bye yearly bonuses  [tongue] - I think I'm set for the coming summer [big grin]

Thanks all for your comment to my various threads of figuring out what I want need to complete my projects with minimum tool issues & dust  [thanks]

P.S. And yes I know I didn't stack on the triangular abrasives but I didn't know which grits or paper I would be using with it since I don't have many project that require corner sanding at the moment. Nor did I take any high grit papers 400+ since I'm mostly working with reasonably soft woods for now or Sipo-tennons since I'll figure out the designs first with the beech tennons up to dry fit and then get what ever size I decide on later.
 
Wow, you're going to have some fun when that arrives.  Stock up now on some hardwood to play with on delivery day.

Nice work, too, on catching so many promos to get a bit more with them.  Towels? I'm jealous  [tongue]
 
Back
Top