Which Sander/Extractor is best for female in trade?

[Girl_w_Style]

If weight is your biggest concern try looking at Mirka,
https://www.mirka.com/en-AU/au_diy/

We have a few Festool sanders/tools and  highly recommend them. We did recently bought a Mirka Orbital. This is a very capable and light sander. The Orbital we bought won’t be suitable for your use however they do have random orbitals as well.

The dust collection is compatible with Festool,

I seriously considered Mirka for a long while- watched all the comparison videos, read the pros & cons....decided to do the Festool dust extractions + Mirka sander

Then I stumbled upon quite a few forums talkin about recalls, lack of service support, burn out on semi-new sanders & some overall problems that seem to plague the Mirka lines.

Switched me back to festool just for piece of mind (which is personally the most important factor for me when spending this kinda dough on a sanding setup).

 

[Girl_w_Style]

I have the setup you talk of in your first post.  CT-26,  the ETS-EC 125 and rotex 125.  As people comment, you need multiple sanders. I am in the camp of not getting along well with the rotex, but it has it's place so it stays.  For me the 150 sanders are just huge beasts, I am am not a small person, but just holding them in hand in a store made me stop thinking about 150mm models.  Also the benefit with the 125 is you can get sand paper anyplace in a pinch verses have to order it online or find a specialty store like a Festool dealer.

On boom arms, there are times I would like it, but then you have basically committed to not moving the vac much.  At times what I do is put a clamp or similar on ceiling joist and hook hose/cord up over that if I'm working in the same area for a while.

Like Alex says, since you have the hose for the dust collect, there isn't much of a issue with having the power cord.  On the sanders it's not as annoying as it is on say a TS saw where the 2 don't live so well together when making a cut.

Ya I was of the same thought with the 125 over the 150 since I’ve got a huge collection of 5” paper in grits from 40 up to 4000 so I’d prefer to use them up on the new sander instead of cursing every time I gotta pull out the old makita just to use my paper stock [emoji3526].

I actually laughed out loud after watching a video about the boom arm...just imagining myself trying to dis-assemble, lug it to a job site, try n set it all back up...just to have the cord n hose up out of my way. Never gunna happen! & as ya’ll have pointed out- I can easily rig up a system in the shop for it.

 

[Michael Kellough]

If weight is your biggest concern try looking at Mirka,
https://www.mirka.com/en-AU/au_diy/

We have a few Festool sanders/tools and  highly recommend them. We did recently bought a Mirka Orbital. This is a very capable and light sander. The Orbital we bought won’t be suitable for your use however they do have random orbitals as well.

The dust collection is compatible with Festool,

I seriously considered Mirka for a long while- watched all the comparison videos, read the pros & cons....decided to do the Festool dust extractions + Mirka sander

Then I stumbled upon quite a few forums talkin about recalls, lack of service support, burn out on semi-new sanders & some overall problems that seem to plague the Mirka lines.

Switched me back to festool just for piece of mind (which is personally the most important factor for me when spending this kinda dough on a sanding setup).

Good thinking! Festool service is great but expensive.

My old ET 125 jammed up and I thought it would be a minor repair, worth sending in since the Festool 5” random orbit sander cost nearly triple what an “similar” Makita cost so I thought the repair cost would be a small fraction of the replacement cost. Festool checked it out and said it would cost more than 75% of the cost of replacing with new.

My advice, go with Festool (brushless) and sell the sander on before the warranty runs out and buy a new one.

 

[Michael Kellough]

A huge collection of 5” abrasives could be a problem if you want good dust collection. Maybe buy some hole punches to make your abrasives conform to the Festool hole pattern. You do need that bigger center hole. Without it dust tends to accumulate there and can eventually melt and start becoming “corns” on the disk.

 

[Girl_w_Style]

Hi,
I think you have gotten a lot of good insight here.
Things that comes to my mind is:
It’s not that necessarily you are weak, most girls have stamina, often more than “strong” men.
So this will be up to you to decide. But, Rotex machines are heavier, mostly two hand operation, which limits shifting hands less. One handed sanders means you can shift hands often.
150mm machines are heavy beasts, 125 more manageable, abrasives commonly available (though as said, not always with Festool’s hole pattern) I have a Rotex 90 for aggressive, and finer detail work, and find it to be an invaluable machine. It is way lighter and easier to control, even with one hand (not in forced rotation mode)
I agree with getting the new CT midi/mini with Bluetooth. A cyclone on top are more items to carry, but in separate pieces, not one big clumsy heavy lump. That way you can have best of both worlds.
I have also tried out (shelled out..) the 5 meter sleeved Festool hose for planing, routing and sanding, I’m glad I did.. it eases operation, and if you get a 5m or longer hose you might hang it from the roof, with a bungee string 3 point attached with two Velcro’s on the middle of the hose,  works perfect. That said, you would have to have the opportunity to screw in a small hook or similar in the roof, or a line between two points on the walls, buy a snatch roller or something (boat shops have them) to attach the hose to the line, and it will easily follow. If done before moulding, it can be done this way. For large areas I would suggest a 7,5m or 10m hose.

Thanks, thats all so helpful! The more personal opinions the better- its solidified my resolve to get the ets-ec 125 over the rotex but am pretty much sold on picking one up during the remodel when gear driven will come in very handy.

-Do you find much use for the ro90 triangle pad feature?

Its appealing but the small size of the regular pad makes it really hard for me to swallow the cost, but I also know everything has its place & bigger is often NOT better in job tools.

I actually contemplated adding 1 of the cyclone units 2 my cart yesterday to save money over the bag replacement (the long life bag price shocked me-but I shoulda known better)....

-Did u go with the festool or Oneida?
-Does the Oneida fit well on the Midi?
It seems to have better reviews but the descriptions says it won’t work on Midi (only found 1 person who says they used it for that model but that the overhang caused their extractor to be horribly off balance)

 

[Girl_w_Style]

*About the hose with encased cord/hose sleeve...
-Do ya’ll feel its worth the money?
-Is there any aftermarket options available?

I wish they offered a version of the dust extractor with that as an option instead of requiring a separate hose order

*Off-Topic:
-Anyone have experience w/ the RAP 150-14 FE or RAP 150-21 FE polisher?

I can’t seem to figure out what the difference btwn 2 models is...or of its worth buying one over a rotex in the future?

 

[AlexThePalex]

*About the hose with encased cord/hose sleeve...
-Do ya’ll feel its worth the money?
-Is there any aftermarket options available?

I wish they offered a version of the dust extractor with that as an option instead of requiring a separate hose order

I do not think it is worth the money. I never use one. You can easily make you one yourself if you really want to. Duct tape, hook & loop band or a gorrila sleeve all work fine.

Anyone have experience w/ the RAP 150-14 FE or RAP 150-21 FE polisher?
I can’t seem to figure out what the difference btwn 2 models is...or of its worth buying one over a rotex in the future?

Difference is the RPM:

RAP 150-14 FE = 600 - 1400 RPM
RAP 150-21 FE = 900 - 2100 RPM

If you do a lot of polishing it is worth the money. A dedicated polisher is a lot better than a Rotex. The Rotex can polish, but it is not really good at it because the RPM is too low.

My advice, go with Festool (brushless) and sell the sander on before the warranty runs out and buy a new one.

Or you keep the tool running by repairing it yourself. I find it very easy to service Festools. Unless the motor or electronics board is toast, most repairs are cheap, like €15 in parts. I have tools over 15 years old and keep them running.

 

[Cheese]

If you do a lot of polishing it is worth the money. A dedicated polisher is a lot better than a Rotex. The Rotex can polish, but it is not really good at it because the RPM is too low.

I agree...it took me about 8 hours to polish out the entire automobile. I estimate it’d take me 4 hours or less using a RAP.

 

[DeformedTree]

Also the benefit with the 125 is you can get sand paper anyplace in a pinch verses have to order it online or find a specialty store like a Festool dealer.

Does that paper have the proper 8+1 hole pattern?

Dug out the non-festool stuff, it has 8 holes, none match, not sure what I did then.  Like others mention, a hole punch may be a good idea or some other method to poke holes.  Still, my main reason was "in a pinch".  Also if the poster has a pile of 125mm stuff, all the more reason to find an easy way to adapt.  Maybe in time the "universal fit" paper will become a bit more "universal".  Rather surprised companies haven't jumped on this even if it is just one company, festool probably has a good chunk of the sander market.

 

[RKA]

Regarding the Festool cyclone vs Oneida, I think the Festool is probably better in terms of portability.  Festool packaged this thing for site work.  The Oneida probably has less suction loss and a little better separation efficiency, but you have that cone sticking up over the top of the collection box.  Better for the shop I think.  But I haven’t owned either, just looked at the feedback and reviews trying to answer that same question.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Regarding the Festool cyclone vs Oneida, I think the Festool is probably better in terms of portability.  Festool packaged this thing for site work.  The Oneida probably has less suction loss and a little better separation efficiency, but you have that cone sticking up over the top of the collection box.  Better for the shop I think.  But I haven’t owned either, just looked at the feedback and reviews trying to answer that same question.

- Just as I’m thinking, for carrying, moving equipment often, the Festool cyclone is the one I would get (I still haven’t, but I’m going to) The day I’m not moving “my shop” from room to room, and have built my woodworking shop in my side house I may consider something like Oneida or similar. But then it’s stationary. As of now, I’m using a tin can (20 litre with pre-filter) intended for ash removal in wood stoves to act as a kind of a cyclone unit (But safe for extract potentially dangerous ash that may contain heated, flammable residues) But this is driven by a Kärcher shop vac, separating almost all sawdust from my table saw. It works as a cyclone, but less efficient, at least with the pre-filter in place. But, almost none sawdust reaches the dust extractor. The pre-filter is washable and reusable. I will keep this for use when sanding or with other tools when removing paint or similar that could potentially self ignite.

I’m sorry, but a have not tried the triangle pad yet, but I suppose it will work like most other triangle sanders. I did get the RO 90 because I have the Bosch 150 Turbo. I’m missing the 125 sander, and there’s my future purchase. (- All my needs though)

 

[Pnw painter]

As a painter I’ve purchased an RO90, RO125, ETS125, RTS400 and ETS-EC 150 and a MIDI extractor for my business.

Overall, I’d recommend the RTS400 and ETS-EC 150 as my favorite go to sanders for painters. The RTS400 is awesome for prepping trim, cabinets and windows. For larger surfaces the ETS-EC 150 is a great companion. Its awesome because it works so well with low and high grit abrasives.

For the vast majority of my projects I can use these two sanders without wishing I was using one of my other sanders. Personally, the only reason I’d purchase an RO sander is for removing old finishes with 40 or 60 grit abrasives. Unless you’re doing this a lot or you’ve got a massive project, you can still use the ETS-EC with lower grit abrasives. The RO sander will be faster.

Hopefully that helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Girl_w_Style]

A huge collection of 5” abrasives could be a problem if you want good dust collection. Maybe buy some hole punches to make your abrasives conform to the Festool hole pattern. You do need that bigger center hole. Without it dust tends to accumulate there and can eventually melt and start becoming “corns” on the disk.

I didn’t even consider the middle hole but your totally right!

Well shoot, that kinda makes it a crappy idea to try n use up my current collection w/ the new 125 since the I’d be punching out most of the remaining paper just to be sure my dust collection was in tact.

Looks like some paper is goin on the list...they really suck ya into the eco system eh? Haha.

 

[Girl_w_Style]

Difference is the RPM:

RAP 150-14 FE = 600 - 1400 RPM
RAP 150-21 FE = 900 - 2100 RPM

If you do a lot of polishing it is worth the money. A dedicated polisher is a lot better than a Rotex. The Rotex can polish, but it is not really good at it because the RPM is too low.

Or you keep the tool running by repairing it yourself. I find it very easy to service Festools. Unless the motor or electronics board is toast, most repairs are cheap, like €15 in parts. I have tools over 15 years old and keep them running.

Thank you! Don’t know why I didn’t see the RPM differences but thats a pretty big swing.

Weird that they’re the same price but the 21 has such a higher max power. Seems to me it would be smartest to buy the 21 & use a rotex for any lower power polishing when needed (unless u rehab cars or do mostly polishing work).

Good to know festools are easy fix- had no idea they were expensive to service!! Based on your statment there’s prolly quite a few places around the city that should be able to offer repair if needed

 

[AlexThePalex]

Well, I guess the name's Micheal now, it's a good name and I'd be proud to wear it.

Weird that they’re the same price but the 21 has such a higher max power. Seems to me it would be smartest to buy the 21 & use a rotex for any lower power polishing when needed (unless u rehab cars or do mostly polishing work).

One is not more powerful than the other, just faster. Production costs would be the same as it is just a small adaptation in the electronics module.

Festool caters to the professional car world. There are many different objects to polish, made out of different materials, and you use different compounds on them, which all have their own unique properties and optimal RPM to apply them. When polishing paint, you have to be carefull not to go too fast or you can burn the paint which leaves a very undesireable effect. Worst case, you have to spray paint the part again. So faster is not necessarily better. A professional detailer probably has both polishers in his inventory.

Good to know festools are easy fix- had no idea they were expensive to service!! Based on your statment there’s prolly quite a few places around the city that should be able to offer repair if needed

Any capable repairman can do most repairs on them for sure. As for expensive, everything about Festool is at least twice as expensive as the next brand.

 

[FestitaMakool]

For polishing car, or such painted surfaces, that’s a whole other field of knowledge.
As [member=5277]Alex[/member] is pointing out, it is all about compounds, temperature, and rotation. Most car paint finisher uses forced rotation equipment, as also Festool among Makita and others who offers dedicated tool for this kind of application.
I did a small Boston Whaler dingy which was totally flat in the gelcoat, I used compressed air tools, mostly small forced rotation ones to buff it up. A standard oscillating tool wouldn’t stand a chance, maybe for high def. finishing, but nothing more. They are mostly sanders, and useless for serious work, where the surface really need a lot of work. A Rotex would be a lot better, more of a crossover to dedicated polishing machines. Professionals would have a mix of machines to their specific task, working as in “layers” from start to finish.
And yes, both the Boston Whaler and my then other dingy came out so glossy, so when I sold the other (“With” brand) the buyer didn’t even argue about the price of this old boat, he had just a big grin and handed me the cash and off he went with the dingy  [big grin]

So yes, it is about choosing the right tool for the job, and most important: Learn from people who is extremely good at what they do.. craftsmanship. That’s what I did, and ended up with a near perfect result.

 

[Cheese]

Seems to me it would be smartest to buy the 21 & use a rotex for any lower power polishing when needed (unless u rehab cars or do mostly polishing work).

Because I only polish out 2 cars a year at the most, I'm waiting for a 14 FE to show up on the Festool Recon website. If you don't do this a lot, it's easier as Alex noted, to burn the finish with the faster speed.

I use the Rotex 90 to polish up the headlights & taillights. In both instances the finished result is stunning.

 

[Girl_w_Style]

Well, I guess the name's Micheal now, it's a good name and I'd be proud to wear it.

Weird that they’re the same price but the 21 has such a higher max power. Seems to me it would be smartest to buy the 21 & use a rotex for any lower power polishing when needed (unless u rehab cars or do mostly polishing work).

One is not more powerful than the other, just faster. Production costs would be the same as it is just a small adaptation in the electronics module.

Festool caters to the professional car world. There are many different objects to polish, made out of different materials, and you use different compounds on them, which all have their own unique properties and optimal RPM to apply them. When polishing paint, you have to be carefull not to go too fast or you can burn the paint which leaves a very undesireable effect. Worst case, you have to spray paint the part again. So faster is not necessarily better. A professional detailer probably has both polishers in his inventory.

Good to know festools are easy fix- had no idea they were expensive to service!! Based on your statment there’s prolly quite a few places around the city that should be able to offer repair if needed

Any capable repairman can do most repairs on them for sure. As for expensive, everything about Festool is at least twice as expensive as the next brand.

Whoa...I musta messed up when deleting the upper “quote” part in my reply n switched the names. Its never bad to have 2 identities...may come in handy some day hahaha [emoji1787]

I’ve always assumed a higher RPM require an increase in amp power to deliver consistent speed and control, is that not how it works?

I’m not in ANY way electrically or mechanically inclined...the artsy side of my brain took over all things unnecessary for my daily life haha.

Ya, your all right about the idea of having the right tools for the job & I can totally see why there would be an advantage to the polisher + rotex in different situations.

Sadly I’ve spent most of my career chasing ideal tools for my niche but since its not a mass area of the painting or contractor world it almost always ends up being a mish-mash of tools meant for something else that work great for fine finishers.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Its never bad to have 2 identities...may come in handy some day hahaha [emoji1787]

Yeah, I know, I have had 2 identities for quite a while now, but I wasn't ready to make this public yet. You're more or less forcing my hand here.  [wink]

I’ve always assumed a higher RPM require an increase in amp power to deliver consistent speed and control, is that not how it works?

There are so many ways to regulate RPM physically and electronically. The way you describe is how it can work within a single motor. But there are so many types of motors, with different coils, with different impedance/resistance, sometimes two or more separate coils per motor which can be controlled independently...... and put an electronics board behind it and you get even more options.

With two identical machines like these, I guess they let the control board slightly vary the time interval between the electric impulses it sends to the coils of the motor. The 21 gets the higher RPM, but with less torque than the 14 as the wattage stays the same.

 

[Scott B.]

I would say EC TEC 125 and MIDI is a great combo.