Which sander for removing paint on exterior wooden walls ?

[WarnerConstCo.]

Wow, I can't believe the number of responses.  Thanks everyone.

Wonderwino - I will look into testing for lead.  We have two young children and we want to keep them healthy.  I think the cottage predates 1978 but not sure about 1960 - have inquired with previous owners, but might have to invest in  a lead testing kit.

Question: a few if the above posts make  it sound like the RAS115 might be hard to find.  Why would that be ? Peter's thread makes me think that getting one would definitely pay for itself in time saved.  I have precious little time at the cottage as it is.  If I can get one I think I might invest in a dust shield.

thanks again everybody !

It is back ordered I think.

 

[tbellemare]

Mr. Nugg:

If you can get a RAS, it's probably the best machine on Earth for the task.

'Short of a RAS 115, the ROTEX 150, as many have already stated, can make short work of your task.

I think it kind of depends on whether you want one sander or multiples... If you're looking to get another sander, that is awesome, get the RAS...

I'm a FESTOOL Dealer and I haven't gotten but a few of them (RAS 115's) all year. My customers are clamoring for them...

If I had to do what you're doing, I'd use a ROTEX 150 and go after it. A 150mm disk is almost 50% bigger than a 125mm disk, let alone a 115mm disk. The ROTEX 150, with the side handle attached, is not hard to handle on vertical surfaces. It will cover about 40-50% more surface than its 125mm sibling in the same amount of time.

'Just my thoughts...

Tom

Tom

 

[jvsteenb]

I sand and remove a LOT of paint, and I do have an RO150. Supersander, let's be clear on that one.
But If I read about you "getting the loose stuff off" I suspect the paint is already peeling, or doesn't stick well to the surface anyway ?
In that case - and assuming the boards are reasonably flat - I'd simply use a scraper, probably aided by a hot-air gun.
Forget the simple triangle scrapers - mostly crap. But the dedicated scrapers with renewable carbide blades are very useful and last long.
On top of that, there won't be any dust, especially when you soften the paint with hot air just before removing it. Use a dropcloth, the droppings will be far easier to collect then stray sanding dust would.
If needed, you can touch up the surface with a sander before laying up the groundcoat.

Regards,

Job

 

[Michael_MA]

Rubin sucks for removing stains, paints and varnishes.

Saphir, Brilliant2 or Cristal.

That is my favorite order of those.

I really despise Rubin except for the price of it.

You shouldn't use Rubin to remove anything but wood. It doesn't last as long as other types of paper but it does work on bare wood like no other.

Yeah, I know that but, the poster before me must have spent a lot of extra time just using rubin to strip that varnish.

Funny, because Festool (HQ) as well as major paint manufacturers (SIKKENS) over here give recommendation for using Rubin in 60/80 for removing old paints and varnishes.. maybe you have different compositions in the chemistry, but in my perticular example it worked like a charm.

If the colleague already uses the RO150, it would be the best to have him try it with a few different grids. I did only have a very thin clear laquer left on the stair, but it was really sticky.. but with my combination it was a quick effort to get the stair prepared.

Here is the recommendation from Sikkens: (sorry only in German)
http://www.ruetue.de/downloads/broschuerefestool.pdf

kind regards, Mike

 

[nickao]

Irregardless of what that says and your results, the Rubin I have used and I have used plenty, sucks for removing finishes. I actually ordered it last month by mistake and only realized it until I actually tried using it. I had to one day order some Saphir ASAP.

Cristal is my go to followed by Saphir. Rubin I barley ever use unless it is bare wood and only a light sanding is needed.

I never read any recommendations and only learned from experience. I have a feeling if the Rubin worked great for you , the Saphir would blow your mind, to me it's that much better.

If I could only have one sand paper it would be Cristal.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Funny, because Festool (HQ) as well as major paint manufacturers (SIKKENS) over here give recommendation for using Rubin in 60/80 for removing old paints and varnishes.. maybe you have different compositions in the chemistry, but in my perticular example it worked like a charm.

...... I did only have a very thin clear laquer left on the stair, but it was really sticky.

I am from Holland and am very familiar with both Sikkens' paint line-up and Festool's sandpaper. Your Rubin might have worked on the thin clear lacquer of your stairs, but that doesn't mean Rubin is best suited for the job. And don't forget clear lacquer is the most easiest of finishes to remove because it has very little solids compared to opaque (non clear) paint. With real paint, your Rubin would have clogged up very quickly. You would need more Rubin discs than when using Brilliant 2, Cristal or the new Granite paper.

Here is the recommendation from Sikkens: (sorry only in German)
http://www.ruetue.de/downloads/broschuerefestool.pdf

Glucklich is est fur mich kein Problem um Deutsch zu sprechen oder lesen. / Luckily it's no problem for me to speak or read German.

The Sikkens brochure is a bit old as it's from 2004 and talks about Brilliant sandpaper while Festool has already updated the formula to Brilliant 2 (two). When we talk about Brilliant here on the forum we nearly always mean Brilliant 2. I don't know why Festool changed the formula and what the difference exactly is, but I guess Brilliant 2 stands out more from Rubin than Brilliant did when it comes to it's application on paint.

There are two boxes in the brochure you mention and only in those boxes do they mention sandpaper recommendations.

The first on page 5, called "Festool ? Schleifsysteme f?r Sikkens Holzbau Lacke und Lasuren" speaks about Rubin being used on untreated wood only (Nadelholz unbehandelt & Laubholz unbehandelt).

The second box on page 7 mentions Brilliant under 'Anwendungen' (applications) as suited for "Hochleistungsschleifmittel f?r Farben und Lacke" (abrasive for paint and lacquer), and mentions Rubin as suited for "Hochleistungsschleifmittel f?r Holzwerkstoffe" (abrasive for 'woodproducts'). It does mention paint and lacquer under Rubin in that same box, a bit confusing, but I guess they mean it in the sense of 'occasionally' and not necessarily as the 'best' solution.

And as for Festool's recommendation, they have this excellent online brochure where they make their recommendations, and Rubin is only mentioned for bare wood and not for paint.

Irregardless of what that says and your results, the Rubin I have used and I have used plenty, sucks for removing finishes.

I agree.

If I could only have one sand paper it would be Cristal.

My choice as an all rounder would be Brilliant 2, and perhaps the new Granite paper, but I've had too little experience with Granite yet.

Cristal is really only for the tough jobs where you need and aggressive abrasive. It is very sharp and doesn't clog fast. It's grids only range from 40 to 120 though which makes it only suitable for preparing the first coat. I wouldn't want to use that between coats though, in fear of maiming my freshly primed surface. Once the rough work has been done with Cristal up to 120 then you need to progress with Brilliant 2 180 to 320. Or Rubin, when you're on bare wood. And I wouldn't even dare to touch plastics with Cristal. It's really Brilliant 2 that can do most work on most materials.

 

[Michael_MA]

Rubin 60/80 in my case was a sufficient abrasive to solve my problem quickly. Maybe because it was a thin surface of clear lacquer, but a s i mentioned.. in my case it worked perfect.
I found it very reasonable to have only used 3 (Three) pieces of Rubin to prepare 18m2 or 194 sqft of stair in perfect fashion. So, no clogging or tearing of the sandpaper also due to dust extraction, whic is a must to keep the abrasive in form.
No doubt there maybe other/better/faster solutions.. but i made my experience this way being completly satisfied with it.

On other surfaces like an old pine window frame with a thick colored coating, i user Crystal 80/100..  which gave me a great surface which i re-finished up to 180 grid, before i used primer and painting.
So what i'm telling here..  it also depends on the type of wood your using the abrasive on..

Just to answer one of the previous posts here.. the pdf i have linked in states Rubin as suitable for the following materials:
x Lacke, Farben, Nitrolacke  --> Laquer, Paintings, solvent based paints                 
x alte Lackschichten, grundierte H?lzer --> Old coatings of paints, primered wood
They do not tell here it's the perfect solution for it, maybe also because its an older information.

kind regards, Mike

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I really like the Brilliant 2 paper, low cost, great for removing finishes, and holds up very well.

I like Cristal except it seems to leave a few more scratches behind.

 

[tbellemare]

Every Festool document I've ever seen about the abrasives has stated that Rubin is strictly for bare wood. It clogs.

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

Just to answer one of the previous posts here.. the pdf i have linked in states Rubin as suitable for the following materials:
x Lacke, Farben, Nitrolacke   --> Laquer, Paintings, solvent based paints                  
x alte Lackschichten, grundierte H?lzer --> Old coatings of paints, primered wood
They do not tell here it's the perfect solution for it, maybe also because its an older information.

Of course it's 'suitable'. It's sandpaper, it has a rough surface. You can use it on any surface to roughen it up. You can even pick up a tile from the sidewalk and use that to sand wood, I'm sure you'll get some sort of result. Doesn't mean it's the best or most economical way of doing it. And like I said above, clear lacquer is probably the most easy coating you can sand. Wait till you have to sand some very tough coatings like Sikkens Rubbol AZ or Rubbol XD and you'll see a different story.

I found it very reasonable to have only used 3 (Three) pieces of Rubin to prepare 18m2 or 194 sqft of stair in perfect fashion. So, no clogging or tearing of the sandpaper also due to dust extraction, whic is a must to keep the abrasive in form.

That must be some huge stairs. I just did two big ones that were both no more than about 6m2. I used 1 piece of Brilliant 2 120 grit to do both of them with my ETS 125. They were in pretty good shape.

On other surfaces like an old pine window frame with a thick colored coating, i user Crystal 80/100..  which gave me a great surface which i re-finished up to 180 grid, before i used primer and painting.
So what i'm telling here..  it also depends on the type of wood your using the abrasive on..

I'd say it more depends on the type of coating than on the type of wood since you're sanding the coating and not the wood.

 

[Michael_MA]

...You can even pick up a tile from the sidewalk and use that to sand wood, I'm sure you'll get some sort of result. ...

I'd say it more depends on the type of coating than on the type of wood since you're sanding the coating and not the wood.

Since the coating on old surfaces is mostly coming off in flakes, you may have to remove more wood than coating..
and if you want to re-gain the nice look of the wood grain.. it requires heavy sanding before you put stain and clear lacquer on the surface.. 
Interesting you are using tiles to remove coatings.. didn't know that  [wink]

For me it was a great experience working on that stairway.. and Yes, it was a really large one..
But to get back to the initial Thread question.. i would always use my RO150 for this type of work as it has 150mm diameter and the best Dust collection i've seen on this type of Equipment. This is something, which is most important, when considering hazardous contents in the coating.

kind regards, Mike

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Nuggy,

    Let me start by saying that this is an area I have a lot of experience with.  It's funny how my previous profession doing mechanical, paint and bodywork crosses over frequently into woodworking/carpentry.  First a warning.  I was unaware of this till I got my remodelers lead certification.  DON'T use a heat gun on the paint as the potential for lead fumes is just as hazardous as the dust from sanding it.  Besides what previous advice you've been given, you may also want to consider just plain scraping the loose/easy stuff, then HEPA sanding or safe chemical stripping like PEEL AWAY (I've had great success with that stuff) or invest a little money in a handheld infrared unit that softens the underlying layers of paint so it can be easily peeled/scraped away.  Unfortunately I don't remember the company that makes the handheld infrared paint stripper, but you could try an internet search if you choose to go that route.  I have a larger than handheld unit made by Infratech for curing the paint on body parts, not really meant for jobsite use, but I make do with what I have and what works.

Ken

 

[atomicmike]

... safe chemical stripping like PEEL AWAY

I'd second that recommendation. I've been using Smart Strip from Peel Away to remove 95 years of paint from doors and trim, and it has been working fantastically.

- Mike

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Well, after hearing so many opinions that the RAS 115 was the sander for the job, I decided to see if I could find one, and  now I understand the "if you can find one" comments.  I checked everywhere from Toronto through Western NY  and no-one has one - and most didn't even know what it was.

They all claimed that they could get one within 5-10 days, how could this be if the tool is back-ordered ?

 

[peter halle]

They all claimed that they could get one within 5-10 days, how could this be if the tool is back-ordered ?

Perhaps a shipment of new stock had cleared customs and was on its way to Festool USA's distribution center?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I am glad that little sander got some well deserved attention.

 

[Brice Burrell]

They all claimed that they could get one within 5-10 days, how could this be if the tool is back-ordered ?

Perhaps a shipment of new stock had cleared customs and was on its way to Festool USA's distribution center?

The 5-10 days sounds like the normal time for a dealer to receive stock, so I'd guess the dealer in question is unaware that Festool doesn't have any in their warehouse.  Last i heard it might be a few months before these puppies are back on the shelves.

 

[ajones]

I am glad that little sander got some well deserved attention.

Its much more than a sander with all the other tasks one can accomplish with it.Ive just been using mine for rust removal with one of those scotchbrite type pads...

 

[tbellemare]

I have had them on backorder for months and still don't have any in sight.

Tom

 

[Michael_MA]

Well, after hearing so many opinions that the RAS 115 was the sander for the job, I decided to see if I could find one, and  now I understand the "if you can find one" comments.  I checked everywhere from Toronto through Western NY  and no-one has one - and most didn't even know what it was.

They all claimed that they could get one within 5-10 days, how could this be if the tool is back-ordered ?

Well, maybe Amazon is not considered the most professional source for tools, i would check them out.. because i just found this:
http://www.amazon.com/Festool-570738-115-04-Rotary-Sander/dp/B003UV1IBG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1279477703&sr=1-7

Giv'em a try..

kind regards and good luck,
Mike